ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Karthi]

HUD frame of LCA

HUD frame with target

 

[Karthi]

Architecture of Quadruplex Digital Fly by wire of LCA

 

[Bleh]

HAL Tejas F16

Nah, that looks more like it delta-winged Hf-75 Maroot that never existed in this timeline!

 

[Karthi]

Nah, that looks more like it delta-winged Hf-75 Maroot that never existed in this timeline!

Don't take it seriously it was just a drawing , they call it F16

 

[piKacHHu]

HAL Tejas F16

View attachment 49474

It's a Big Joke...Just look at its nose cone and air intake !

It seems like a model used for paper weight.

"Don't take it seriously it was just a drawing , they call it F16"

Btw, Who are "They" ??

 

[samsaptaka]

Full scale production only after HAL completes the order for 83 Mk1A.

Its high time a pvt player who is reliable like Tata, L&T or Kalyani (No ambani, punj lloyd scamsters please !) is involved and a parallel production line or two is setup ! How long should we keep depending on HAL to manufacture, they should drive the design and technology and leave screwdriver job to PVT industry.

This is a tactics to get some support from govt. on mmrca .
in doing so iaf will tell the govt. that tejas 2 in light catagory but we need some medium weight catagory fighter otherwise govt. have made up it's mind that tejas2 will fill the void of mmrca..

Well the current chief is much better than other chiefs and seems to honestly support indigenous aircraft (HTT also he is supporting). But 2 years later if the new chief is again an importer then kiss goodbye to Tejasmk2 !

As such the biggest problem for the people should be the fact that Mk Ia contract hasnt yet been signed,

Yup, it is getting frankly ridiculous! Should have been signed ages ago !

 

[Bleh]

Its high time a pvt player who is reliable like Tata, L&T or Kalyani (No ambani, punj lloyd scamsters please !) is involved and a parallel production line or two is setup ! How long should we keep depending on HAL to manufacture, they should drive the design and technology and leave screwdriver job to PVT industry.

HAL is the screwdriver job party that outsources & assembles. It is not a R&D organisation. I think we have should have learnt enough lesson OFB's gun designs by now, on what happens if you rely on assembly organisations for development.

Anyways almost 45% of Tejas is already outsourced to private partners.

Dependance on outsiders should not be more than 50% and definitely not let them technology of critical components, only easily replaced ones or else the price would spike (every single partners is trying to make profit).

 

[dude00720]

HAL is the screwdriver job party that outsources & assembles. It is not a R&D organisation. I think we have should have learnt enough lesson OFB's gun designs by now, on what happens if you rely on assembly organisations for development.

Anyways almost 45% of Tejas is already outsourced to private partners.

Dependance on outsiders should not be more than 50% and definitely not let them technology of critical components, only easily replaced ones or else the price would spike (every single partners is trying to make profit).

If USA uses a private player like lockheed Martin, then why cant India have it's own private players?

 

[Bleh]

If USA uses a private player like lockheed Martin, then why cant India have it's own private players?

USA is not a perfect model. See now China has developed two jets with Lockheed Martin's stealth tech. It was a high-level scam but at the end of the day private companies are far more porus.

Not to mention their Jets are way overpriced than what it would be if DARPA made their own jets. Because remember private companies greatest motivation is always to make profit. They can't just take a 50% cut in profits like HAL did for Mark1A.
Speaking of profits, do you know how much IAF owes HAL right now? ₹17,000 crores!.. more than their record maximum yearly turnover, pushing HAL to borrow to pay its staff. Try doing that with some private company.

Every system is always a trade off, people who wet their underwear in the name of private defence production do not look into these aspects of public services.
Even the venerable Kalyani group may change hands in 20 years & some sack-of-shit may become powerful. If you let them DRDO/ADA develop critical tech, what is to stop them from selling to Pakistan for money?



Private partners belong as helpers, making non critical components to speed up the manufacturing process & leaving the PSUs to concentrate on critically guarded classified tech.

 

[IndianHawk]

USA is not a perfect model. See now China has developed two jets with Lockheed Martin's stealth tech.

Not to mention their Jets are way overpriced than what it would be if DARPA made their own jets. Because remember private companies greatest motivation is always to make profit. They can't just take a 50% cut in profits like HAL for Mark1A.
Speaking of profit do you know how much IAF owes HAL right now? ₹17,000 crores!.. more than their record maximum yearly turnover, pushing HAL to borrow to pay its staff. Try that with some private company.

Every system is always a trade off, people who wet their underwear in the name of private defence production do not look into these aspects of public services.
Even the venerable Kalyani group may change hands in 20 years & some fact of sheet may become powerful. If you let them DRDO/ADA develop critical tech, what is to stop them from selling to Pakistan for money?

Private company can't charge more than competition. If Hal is offering jets at less price than private company won't get to build it.

Competition is key. Along with numbers .

Chinese Design theft was colluded by USA at top level under Obama administration. It was part of g2 USA China arrangements which democrats were dreaming off.

 

[Bleh]

Private company can't charge more than competition. If Hal is offering jets at less price than private company won't get to build it.

Competition is key. Along with numbers .

Chinese Design theft was colluded by USA at top level under Obama administration. It was part of g2 USA China arrangements which democrats were dreaming off.

In my personal opinion, instead of doing the whole jet they should call tender for lowest bidder for making the parts.. in that case computing private companies will be against each other to become partners of manufacture. That we don't give away the advantages of PSUs. IP must be owned by the government organisations, or else the nation risk becomes businessman's bitch.

While the PSUs need to be corporatised as public-private ventures. Then see where that takes us.

 

[IndianHawk]

In my personal opinion, instead of doing the whole jet they should call tender for lowest bidder for making the parts.. in that case computing private companies will be against each other to become partners of manufacture.

While the PSUs need to be corporatised as public-private ventures. Then see where that takes us.

We need a big competitor for Hal. Nal has remained a lab. We need a private super integrator Even if parts are build in private sector to challenge HAL.
Besides our projects are proliferating HAL alone isn't enough anymore.

 

[IndianHawk]

We need a big competitor for Hal. Nal has remained a lab. We need a private super integrator Even if parts are build in private sector to challenge HAL.
Besides our projects are proliferating HAL alone isn't enough anymore.

Our current projects
Mk1a , mwf , tedbf / orca , amca , aura / ghatak , rustom , sport , unmanned wingman , Saras, RTA 70/90.

All these projects will see massive manufacturing numbers in next decade and more projects will start transporter/ civil jets and 6th gen projects from 2030.

We need at least 2-3 big lead integrators like hal.
Dozens off second tier part suppliers and hundreds of smaller manufacturers in the mix.

 

[Bleh]

We need a big competitor for Hal. Nal has remained a lab. We need a private super integrator Even if parts are build in private sector to challenge HAL.
Besides our projects are proliferating HAL alone isn't enough anymore.

Meh. Several OFBs like Trichy, Kanpur, Ichapore have competed against each other & that has not increased there standards much... Whatever improvements has been seen now has been due to new leadership.

LCA Tejas is what it is today because it was practically fighting for survival against induction of foreign jets. Competition need not be homegrown. Artificially created competition never work.
What we really need today is to get into the international market. The moment they stop seeing themselves as a service meant to cater to the Imdian Forces only, they'll adapt & improve.

Export. Is. The. Key.

 

[IndianHawk]

Meh. Several OFBs like Trichy, Kanpur, Ichapore have completed in his teacher and that has not reached there standards much. Whatever improvement has been seen now has been due to new leadership.

LCA Tejas is what it is today because it is practically fightingfor survival against induction of foreign jets... Competition need not be homegrown. Artificially created competition never work.
What we really need today is to get into the international market. The moment they stop seeing themselves as a service meant to cater to the Imdian Forces only, they'll adapt & improve. Export. Is. The. Key.

Competition is required to change work culture. To bring new tech in manufacturing and to stop wastage.

Ofb are threatening strike now when war clouds are gathering over Nation, do you think they will dare to strike if they had competition in India ??

 

[Bleh]

Competition is required to change work culture. To bring new tech in manufacturing and to stop wastage.

Ofb are threatening strike now when war clouds are gathering over Nation, do you think they will dare to strike if they had competition in India ??

Competition in form of another PSU? Probably yes. The general workers don't have a stake. They still get paid their (pretty megre) salary again.

But if they were selling the rejected INSAS 7.62x51 in international civilian market & everyone got a bonus for every hundred guns sold, then would they stop?.. I doubt it.
Work culture does not change itself. Danda in the pichwada from leadership does it to some extent, rest you have to give incentive... or achieve Tejas team's motivation level (which is harder).

 

[Suryavanshi]

USA is not a perfect model. See now China has developed two jets with Lockheed Martin's stealth tech. It was a high-level scam but at the end of the day private companies are far more porus.

Not to mention their Jets are way overpriced than what it would be if DARPA made their own jets. Because remember private companies greatest motivation is always to make profit. They can't just take a 50% cut in profits like HAL did for Mark1A.
Speaking of profits, do you know how much IAF owes HAL right now? ₹17,000 crores!.. more than their record maximum yearly turnover, pushing HAL to borrow to pay its staff. Try doing that with some private company.

Every system is always a trade off, people who wet their underwear in the name of private defence production do not look into these aspects of public services.
Even the venerable Kalyani group may change hands in 20 years & some sack-of-shit may become powerful. If you let them DRDO/ADA develop critical tech, what is to stop them from selling to Pakistan for money?



Private partners belong as helpers, making non critical components to speed up the manufacturing process & leaving the PSUs to concentrate on critically guarded classified tech.

Private companies in India struggle because they don't have proper infrastructure yet.
When they go for a bid they have to keep their loans and future expenditure in mind.
The State enterprise dont have to go through all this because the burden of setting up Infrastructure is taken up by government.
See how L&T loses out in bidding of lager naval ships. HSL and MDL can pitch lower prices because everything they need is already pre setup.
But this won't last for long Private Enterprise are inherently superior. See how L&T blows away any competition in small ship category.
Tendering process of Raw Material inflates prices even for PSUs. In the long run Private companies use resource and manufacturing optimization to cut costs. PSU aren't able to do this because some inherent flaw in their system. Let Tata or Reliance set up its assembly line first then they will blow the likes of HAL out of water.

As for defaulting on payment goes, this isn't a good trend, defaulted payments add to the losses of PSU. If they keep doing this it will just become another Air India and end up being sold anyway.

When it comes to IP no one can stop a company from making it's own IP unless u completely ban private companies from defence sector. Lockheed Martin went from making cycles to airplanes no amount of hurdles could stop them.

Yes national security is also a great concern, that's why government beeds to be proactively in regulating its defence sector.
A min 25%+ PSU and rest Priavte sector should be the norm for each and every industrial sector. If gov still have concerns then they can buy stakes in the company and regulate it from the inside.

Necessity is the mother of all invention.
Private sector is a constantly evolving structute that is in competition with itself.

 

[Bleh]

Private companies in India struggle because they don't have proper infrastructure yet.
When they go for a bid they have to keep their loans and future expenditure in mind.
The State enterprise dont have to go through all this because the burden of setting up Infrastructure is taken up by government.
See how L&T loses out in bidding of lager naval ships. HSL and MDL can pitch lower prices because everything they need is already pre setup.
But this won't last for long Private Enterprise are inherently superior. See how L&T blows away any competition in small ship category.
Tendering process of Raw Material inflates prices even for PSUs. In the long run Private companies use resource and manufacturing optimization to cut costs. PSU aren't able to do this because some inherent flaw in their system. Let Tata or Reliance set up its assembly line first then they will blow the likes of HAL out of water.

As for defaulting on payment goes, this isn't a good trend, defaulted payments add to the losses of PSU. If they keep doing this it will just become another Air India and end up being sold anyway.

When it comes to IP no one can stop a company from making it's own IP unless u completely ban private companies from defence sector. Lockheed Martin went from making cycles to airplanes no amount of hurdles could stop them.

Yes national security is also a great concern, that's why government beeds to be proactively in regulating its defence sector.
A min 25%+ PSU and rest Priavte sector should be the norm for each and every industrial sector. If gov still have concerns then they can buy stakes in the company and regulate it from the inside.

Necessity is the mother of all invention.
Private sector is a constantly evolving structute that is in competition with itself.

US never really had a PSU equivalent. Government of India is giving away free ToT to private companies to boost them. That should help. When they are mature enough PSUs will die a natural death like Hindustan Motors did, OFB may shortly do, but for now we definitely do need them.

Them there are these advantages...

Because remember private companies greatest motivation is always to make profit. They can't just take a 50% cut in profits like HAL did for Mark1A.
Speaking of profits, do you know how much IAF owes HAL right now? ₹17,000 crores!.. more than their record maximum yearly turnover, pushing HAL to borrow to pay its staff. Try doing that with some private company.

...As India is not US, those advantages will continue to be benificial to us. Larger PSUs will be harder for private companies to compete against, especially if they become public private enterprises.

Ok. Now we're going off-topic.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Fuck Capitalism and socialism.
Accountability is where its at.

Indian Companies, its owners, government and Public should all act as a large family. When one falls down the other pulls them up.

 

[Bleh]

Indian Companies, its owners, government and Public should all act as a large family. When one falls down the other pulls them up.

That's the basic concept of socialism.

But unless you force them, it does not work, because people are suicidally shortshighted selfish sacks o'shit by nature.