ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Bleh]

Still, mk2 production will only enter full rate by 2027-2028, considering 3 years for ramp up production by 2023 and another 4 years to fulfill all mk1/1a orders if production is ordered today.

Yeah 2026 is best case scenario (unless they open a parallel line from the old Su-30 & Hawk-i lines).
If only we could bag the Malaysian deal... An export order would really help speed thing up.

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF commits for 100 MWF-Mk2, No Trainer planned
Air Chief Marshal RK Bhadauria in talks with Indian media has confirmed that Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to procure at least 6 Squadrons of upcoming Medium Weight Fighter (MWF), Project name which still goes by as Tejas Mk2 and has committed to procure 100 jets, which will comprise of 16 jets per squadron Since no trainer variant (conversion two-seaters) have been planned for each squadron at least 4 jets will be used to train new pilots and will move among this squadrons to be used as Single seater Trainer for pilots moving from Tejas Mk1/A and other squadrons. HAL and ADA will start work on first pre-production IOC certified MWF aircraft from 2021 onwards by starting metal cutting work and final configuration freeze will happen by end of this year so that operation is smooth and on the scheduled time. MWF will have its first flight by 2023 and will be followed by 3 more jets which will see a move from IOC configuration to FOC configuration with each aircraft configurations. ADA is skipping TD (Technological Demonstrator ) and PV (Prototype Vehicle ) Stage for the MWF Program which will allow ADA and HAL to directly move to the production stage from its first flight in less than 5 years. ADA expects, DRDO developed Uttam AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) to be certified by 2022 which will be incorporated in the first MWF from the first aircraft itself. LRDE which has developed the UTTAM AESA FCR plans to scale up limited serial production of the radar in the coming years so that radar is available for all the four pre-production MWF aircraft for intense testing and validation of the technologies. UTTAM AESA FCR which has been integrated on older LSP Tejas Mk1 as demonstrated better scan and track range in comparison to the Israeli ELM-2052 AESA FCR which has been selected for the Tejas Mk1A program, but is yet to demonstrate all modes due to which it has been overlooked for Tejas Mk1A program. MWF will start replacing the Mig-29UPG fleet which in 2035 could be close to 50 years in service and later also Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fleet. IAF doesn’t want to replace MWF in one to one replacement for this 3 fleet type but it will use MMRCA and Tejas Mk1A to make these numbers.

IAF commits for 100 MWF-Mk2, No Trainer planned – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

We will do what we have always done. Go through Sanskrit to find some Wonderful name for our weaponry.

We have the most ancient vocabulary for weapons. Were you not watching ramayan and Mahabharata reruns. So many weapons name to choose from lol.

Was discussed in LCH thread sometime back. I and few others wanted Meghanaad for the next heavy attack chopper from HAL. Will be a fitting tribute to Indrajith

 

[Suhaan]

 

[Bleh]

The advanced version of LCA which was known as Medium Weight Fighter(MWF) will now be known as Tejas Mk2 or LCA Mk2 as earlier.

MTOW 18200kg
Normal TOW 17500kg
High Altitude TOW 13500kg

Normal landing weight 12500kg
Maximum landing weight 13000kg
Emergency landing weight 17000kg

While 18ton+ is a massive MTOW increment, I just realised something.
That is, they have probably managed to keep the empty weight at 7ton... There is no other possible reason I can think of to ditch the "medium weight fighter" tag to go back to "LCA Mark 2".

 

[aerokan]

While 18ton+ is a massive MTOW increment, I just realised something.
That is, they have probably managed to keep the empty weight at 7ton... There is no other possible reason I can think of to ditch the "medium weight fighter" tag to go back to "LCA Mark 2".

Next time IAF puts out a request for medium class fighter.. guess who gets disqualified

 

[Bleh]

Next time IAF puts out a request for medium class fighter.. guess who gets disqualified

Not before 2035... ORCA and/or AMCA will be available by then.
This is just ADA's nomenclature like F404 powered Gripen joined MMRCA. It's still Mirage-2000 class, but a 500kg lighter aircraft than it.

 

[Bajirao]

While 18ton+ is a massive MTOW increment, I just realised something.
That is, they have probably managed to keep the empty weight at 7ton... There is no other possible reason I can think of to ditch the "medium weight fighter" tag to go back to "LCA Mark 2".

This is a tactics to get some support from govt. on mmrca .
in doing so iaf will tell the govt. that tejas 2 in light catagory but we need some medium weight catagory fighter otherwise govt. have made up it's mind that tejas2 will fill the void of mmrca..

There is no air force in world such weight consious as iaf..in olympics boxing,wrestling have less weight catagory than the iaf have for its fighter jet

 

[Bleh]

This is a tactics to get some support from govt. on mmrca .
in doing so iaf will tell the govt. that tejas 2 in light catagory but we need some medium weight catagory fighter otherwise govt. have made up it's mind that tejas2 will fill the void of mmrca..

There is no air force in world such weight consious as iaf..in olympics boxing,wrestling have less weight catagory than the iaf have for its fighter jet

I thought so too... at first. But thing is, this stuff may be good enough for some media articles or twitter posts, but in the MoD-ADA-IAF dynamics whether it is called MWF or LCA2 makes absolutely no difference. It will always be Mirage-2000 class.
Nor do IAF hold that much sway on DRDO to make it sabotage its own project. Let's not pin on them what they dont deserve. This was completely ADA's decision.

So I'm 90% convinced about the 2nd option, that the much speculated empty weight of Mark2 is indeed within the 7ton limit, making it an LCA again. (Technically if you replace Mirage-2000's airframe with titanium & body with carbon-fibre it may come down to 7.1-7.2 ton too).

 

[Steven Rogers]

I thought so too... at first.
But thing is this stuff may be good enough for some media articles or twitter posts, but in the MoD-ADA-IAF dynamics whether it is called MWF or LCA2 makes absolutely no difference. It will always be Mirage-2000 class.

So I'm 90% convinced about the 2nd option, that the much speculated empty weight of Mark2 is indeed within the 7ton limit, making it an LCA again. (Technically if you replace Mirage-2000's airframe with titanium & body with carbon-fibre it may come down to 7.1-7.2 ton too).

The air force have mostly preferred MWF as LCA MK2 and it was the ADA which mostly used MWF as temporary name,so it is not a big deal to what is being called at current or future unless their is an offical name announced...... You can't judge the empty weight of an aircraft which has never being produced,so limit those with the class of 7-8tons rather than just around 7 tons....I would rather take the brochure numbers as they tend to be more realistic...

 

[Bleh]

You can't judge the empty weight of an aircraft which has never being produced, so limit those with the class of 7-8tons rather than just around 7 tons....

Ofcourse I can!.. Did you seriously just say that?! The design & data on materials used will allow calculation structural weight to <0.1% margin of error. Whole structural designing is done based on it!!!

Those brochures are from before renaming. Detail design phase is going on & there's is lot of room to shave off weight here... Given how LCA Mark2 was retagged "Medium Weight" when the expected empty weight was between 7.5-8 tons, I figured they managed to lose a few quintals to bring it back below that range (not below 7 maybe, more likely between 7 to 7.3 tons). Like before 2015.
Anyways, that was my reasoning for possible cause of this name reverting, you are free to disagree.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Ofcourse I can!.. The design & data on materials used will allow calculation structural weight to <0.1% margin of error. Whole structural designing is done based on that!!!

Those brochures are from before renaming. Detail design phase is going on & there's is lot of room to shave off weight here... Given how LCA Mark2 was retagged "Medium Weight" when the expected empty weight was between 7.5-8 tons (claimed it to match Mirage-2000), I figured they managed to lose a few quintals to bring it back below that range. Like before 2015.
Anyways, that was my reasoning for possible cause of this name reverting, you are free to disagree (...or between 6.9 to 7.2 tons maybe).

What data did you get brother, kindly share to us...Weight shoving is not easy as it looks,as per original plan LCA MK2 was to lengthen about 1/2 the meter and weight about 7 tons,with an increased thrust engine inorder match the ASQR requirements,how does it possible that weight will not be increased even if they they increase the dimensions and add-ons.

 

[Bhurki]

I don't understand the furor around the naming scheme.
MoD won't decide which plane to buy or which to drop based on its name..
The aircraft that wins is based on a range of factors like payload, range, upkeep costs, uptime, capabilities vis a vis direct opponent capabilities, Mission capability rates,
Besides that special factors like control over integration packages for addition of newer payloads etc.
As long as an aircraft satisfies those needs, HAL could name it TLC for 'three legged cheetah' and IAF would still buy it.
Its the capabilities that matter, not the name.

 

[Bleh]

I don't understand the furor around the naming scheme.
MoD won't decide which plane to buy or which to drop based on its name..
The aircraft that wins is based on a range of factors like payload, range, upkeep costs, uptime, capabilities vis a vis direct opponent capabilities, Mission capability rates,
Besides that special factors like control over integration packages for addition of newer payloads etc.
As long as an aircraft satisfies those needs, HAL could name it TLC for 'three legged cheetah' and IAF would still buy it.
Its the capabilities that matter, not the name.

Exactly!.. Which brought us to the question of why the name may have been changed back from MWF to LCA2.

What data did you get brother, kindly share to us...
Weight shaving is not easy as it looks, as per original plan LCA MK2 was to lengthen about 1/2 the meter and weight about 7 tons, with an increased thrust engine inorder match the ASQR requirements,how does it possible that weight will not be increased even if they they increase the dimensions and add-ons.

No need for the sass brother, reasoning will more appreciated.

Let's be conservative by considering weight increase of the 7000kg pre-2015 LCA Mark2, caused by volume increase from raised spine, 125cm fuselage plug & widening by 30cm, plus canard mechanism & more hardware was to 7850kg.
Mirage-2000 is 7.5ton, lightest of the medium fighters, which would be ADA's benchmark for MWF. If ADA reverted the name, then the only possible reason is they may have been able to bring it below that line, between 7-7.5t (not to 7ton though, too much to shave off)... Or can you think of something else?

 

[IndianHawk]

This is a tactics to get some support from govt. on mmrca .
in doing so iaf will tell the govt. that tejas 2 in light catagory but we need some medium weight catagory fighter otherwise govt. have made up it's mind that tejas2 will fill the void of mmrca..

There is no air force in world such weight consious as iaf..in olympics boxing,wrestling have less weight catagory than the iaf have for its fighter jet

Iaf seems concerned that media will question the mmrca when mwf is coming up. They want to avoid that connection .

Iaf was all light medium jet airforce before su30mki.
And now that su30 is here Boeing f18 at 30ton is being called medium weight lol.

They just want more rafale but can't declare it openly so they are coming up with all kinds of definition to get more rafale. Lol.

 

[IndianHawk]

While 18ton+ is a massive MTOW increment, I just realised something.
That is, they have probably managed to keep the empty weight at 7ton... There is no other possible reason I can think of to ditch the "medium weight fighter" tag to go back to "LCA Mark 2".

It has nothing to do with weight it's all to carve space for more rafale.

BTW keeping lca mk2 at 7ton empty is mamooth task. Gripen E weights upwards 8 ton empty . We should be very happy if they can keep it under 8 ton for mwf.

 

[IndianHawk]

IAF commits for 100 MWF-Mk2, No Trainer planned
Air Chief Marshal RK Bhadauria in talks with Indian media has confirmed that Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to procure at least 6 Squadrons of upcoming Medium Weight Fighter (MWF), Project name which still goes by as Tejas Mk2 and has committed to procure 100 jets, which will comprise of 16 jets per squadron Since no trainer variant (conversion two-seaters) have been planned for each squadron at least 4 jets will be used to train new pilots and will move among this squadrons to be used as Single seater Trainer for pilots moving from Tejas Mk1/A and other squadrons. HAL and ADA will start work on first pre-production IOC certified MWF aircraft from 2021 onwards by starting metal cutting work and final configuration freeze will happen by end of this year so that operation is smooth and on the scheduled time. MWF will have its first flight by 2023 and will be followed by 3 more jets which will see a move from IOC configuration to FOC configuration with each aircraft configurations. ADA is skipping TD (Technological Demonstrator ) and PV (Prototype Vehicle ) Stage for the MWF Program which will allow ADA and HAL to directly move to the production stage from its first flight in less than 5 years. ADA expects, DRDO developed Uttam AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) to be certified by 2022 which will be incorporated in the first MWF from the first aircraft itself. LRDE which has developed the UTTAM AESA FCR plans to scale up limited serial production of the radar in the coming years so that radar is available for all the four pre-production MWF aircraft for intense testing and validation of the technologies. UTTAM AESA FCR which has been integrated on older LSP Tejas Mk1 as demonstrated better scan and track range in comparison to the Israeli ELM-2052 AESA FCR which has been selected for the Tejas Mk1A program, but is yet to demonstrate all modes due to which it has been overlooked for Tejas Mk1A program. MWF will start replacing the Mig-29UPG fleet which in 2035 could be close to 50 years in service and later also Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fleet. IAF doesn’t want to replace MWF in one to one replacement for this 3 fleet type but it will use MMRCA and Tejas Mk1A to make these numbers.

IAF commits for 100 MWF-Mk2, No Trainer planned – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

They are already rolling back mwf numbers to make space for rafale . Too bad there is no money for more rafale lol.

 

[Bhurki]

Which brought us to the question of why the name may have been changed back from MWF to LCA2.

Why does it matter, when this entire activity of renaming is purely trivial.

They are already rolling back mwf numbers to make space for rafale . Too bad there is no money for more rafale lol.

'Rolling back'?!

 

[Steven Rogers]

Exactly!.. Which brought us to the question of why the name may have been changed back from MWF to LCA2.
No need for the sass brother, reasoning will more appreciated.

Let's be conservative by considering weight increase of the 7000kg pre-2015 LCA Mark2, caused by volume increase from raised spine, 125cm fuselage plug & widening by 30cm, plus canard mechanism & more hardware was to 7850kg.
Mirage-2000 is 7.5ton, lightest of the medium fighters, which would be ADA's benchmark for MWF. If ADA reverted the name, then the only possible reason is they may have been able to bring it below that line, between 7-7.5t (not to 7ton though, too much to shave off)... Or can you think of something else?

You have a little misconception bro,LCA MKII name will also be dropped soon in favour of a new name that has nothing to do with tejas...let me asses what I said,LCA MK2 when it was conceived ,it was claimed to be of same weight of LCA With a more Powerful propulsion,going with this slide suggest that LCA MK1 weighs around 7 tons and since 2014 all the LCA MK2/MWF gained wt from 7 tons to 7.8 tons,it's just name and nothing else which has been dropped,MWF was an unofficial name by ADA and LCA MK2 was the name when it was conceived,they both are going to be dropped in favor of new ..

 

[IndianHawk]

Why does it matter, when this entire activity of renaming is purely trivial.

'Rolling back'?!

200 was talked initially now they are saying 100!!