ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[vampyrbladez]

Pilatus didn't end HTT 40 despite not as strategically necessary as Tejas is.

Gripen would have instead helped the tejas design to mature fast and instead of stretching mk2 dev in 2030 we would have it now. Tejas mk2 specs we are talking about are the the one we wish to achieve. We didn't get them yet. There is another 7-8 years for it.

And may be we would have dropped mk2 and just refined mk1 and then went for AMCA either way IAF would have been in good position and industry would have learn it's lesson.

We have a requirement of one single engine fighter to replace the MiG 21 BiS and the MiG 27 in order to maintain squadron numbers.

Before the GoI took Tejas seriously, we were planning to buy F 16 or Gripen for our air force.

Coincidentally, after the Pilatus scan, we are going with the HAL HTT 40 for all future trainer procurements.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Ge 414 Epe is a planned engine of 114 KN. It's not yet certified.

Source for this EPE purchase? Even USN F 18SH has not selected the F414 EPE engines for Block III upgrade.

 

[Shashwat]

Pilatus didn't end HTT 40 despite not as strategically necessary as Tejas is.

Gripen would have instead helped the tejas design to mature fast and instead of stretching mk2 dev in 2030 we would have it now. Tejas mk2 specs we are talking about are the the one we wish to achieve. We didn't get them yet. There is another 7-8 years for it.

And may be we would have dropped mk2 and just refined mk1 and then went for AMCA either way IAF would have been in good position and industry would have learn it's lesson.

We learnt but never applied. 8 years the official time line of starting production so 3-4 yrs to raise 2-3 squadrons.

In short by 2030 we will have 2-3 squadrons of mk2 apart from.4-5 mk1a and 2 mk1 . That's official if there is any delay it will stretch .

Anyway let the IN come out with it's say. They should let the gov know if they wish to wait for AMCA and use naval Tejas or want a Rafale or F 18 . Once that is settled we should have a go ahead .

The amount of nonsense going around these days is unfathomable.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

i guess you jumped to early on the conclusion,kindly read the second tweet...

I tried. Couldnt find any from Harsh Vardhan.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Source for this EPE purchase? Even USN F 18SH has not selected the F414 EPE engines for Block III upgrade.

It is offered as an upgrade for Superhornet also for our AMCA if we chose them.

Tejas mk2 will be able to use it if need arise as their is minor difference in size and provide fuel efficiency with higher thrust.

We will also undertook project Ganga for engine of 120kn/125kn class for AMCA .

First it will be K9 or K 10 with french it seems.

 

[Flying Dagger]

We have a requirement of one single engine fighter to replace the MiG 21 BiS and the MiG 27 in order to maintain squadron numbers.

Before the GoI took Tejas seriously, we were planning to buy F 16 or Gripen for our air force.

Coincidentally, after the Pilatus scan, we are going with the HAL HTT 40 for all future trainer procurements.

If we count 300 Sukhoi we are still short of atleast 400+ new platforms 100 -150 other fighter jet won't end Tejas.

Anyway after Rafale the chances are pretty less for anything else only F 18 due to IN requirement it can make the cut.

The amount of nonsense going around these days is unfathomable.

Okay you don't need to make sense out of nonsense It's nonsense anyway

 

[vampyrbladez]

It is offered as an upgrade for Superhornet also for our AMCA if we chose them.

Tejas mk2 will be able to use it if need arise as their is minor difference in size and provide fuel efficiency with higher thrust.

We will also undertook project Ganga for engine of 120kn/125kn class for AMCA .

First it will be K9 or K 10 with french it seems.

F 18SH is not comparable to Rafale. Not even by a mile. Supercruise, super maneuverability, RCS reduction, SPECTRA EW system and many more features put it ahead of the F 18SH. Only the radars are comparable.

 

[Flying Dagger]

F 18SH is not comparable to Rafale. Not even by a mile. Supercruise, super maneuverability, RCS reduction, SPECTRA EW system and many more features put it ahead of the F 18SH. Only the radars are comparable.

Check the RCS of Superhornet and read about it's avionics . It's radar is way more powerful .

It has a electronic warfare version Growler. The new engines will provide high thrust too.

And it cost considerably lower IN may opt for it or may be not .

 

[vampyrbladez]

Check the RCS of Superhornet and read about it's avionics . It's radar is way more powerful .

It has a electronic warfare version Growler. The new engines will provide high thrust too.

And it cost considerably lower IN may opt for it or may be not .

RCS of Rafale <<< Superhornet.

Radars have the same range and ~ 1000 T/R modules.

Growler is a dedicated EW platform. Rafale is almost as good as that. Libya bombing raid was conducted using SEAD by SPECTRA EW.

F414 EPE doesn't provide TWR of Rafale.

IN MAY buy it since it is the only carrier capable fighter in production other than the F 35B and F 35C.

 

[cannonfodder]

Tejas MK1 /MK2 is direct competition for AC like Gripen.

Same class, same engine about the same capabilities. The first thing that Saab/Gripen would have done is kill any R&D budget of Tejas. Helping your competition & killing your own prospects is out of question for Saab and for that matter even any private business.

 

[Flying Dagger]

RCS of Rafale <<< Superhornet.

Radars have the same range and ~ 1000 T/R modules.

Growler is a dedicated EW platform. Rafale is almost as good as that. Libya bombing raid was conducted using SEAD by SPECTRA EW.

F414 EPE doesn't provide TWR of Rafale.

IN MAY buy it since it is the only carrier capable fighter in production other than the F 35B and F 35C.

T/W ratio of F 18 SH with uprated engine on offer will increase considerable. Right now it is 1.13 vs 1.1 around ( 50% internal fuel ) with increase by around 30-38kn thrust you can see the difference .

Growler is indeed a dedicated ew plane a version of F 18 SH . But saying Rafale have same capability is a joke. May be you can spend a few billion that you have plenty and develop one based on Rafale but currently it's not.

F -18 have RCS of 1 m2 with RAM coating USA provide. That's pretty good

F-18 radar are slightly better and there will always be the option of getting better . USA is using aesa since long.. and they have the best ones.

Radar in Rafale have 800+ T/R i thought. Can you provide a official link ?


Then comes the cost of operation The whole premise of having high lo mix was to reduce the operation expense. As su are expensive to operate enter Rafale and you'll be spending more. Rafale is also carrier capable . And growler are a big asset..

No doubt Rafale is better bird but SH is good too. And industrial advantage will be immense. American restrictions and sanction etc are the only worry.

I am sure whatever the IN go for they will have the best interest in mind for domestic industry too.

 

[bose]

T/W ratio of F 18 SH with uprated engine on offer will increase considerable. Right now it is 1.13 vs 1.1 around ( 50% internal fuel ) with increase by around 30-38kn thrust you can see the difference .

Growler is indeed a dedicated ew plane a version of F 18 SH . But saying Rafale have same capability is a joke. May be you can spend a few billion that you have plenty and develop one based on Rafale but currently it's not.

F -18 have RCS of 1 m2 with RAM coating USA provide. That's pretty good

F-18 radar are slightly better and there will always be the option of getting better . USA is using aesa since long.. and they have the best ones.

Radar in Rafale have 800+ T/R i thought. Can you provide a official link ?


Then comes the cost of operation The whole premise of having high lo mix was to reduce the operation expense. As su are expensive to operate enter Rafale and you'll be spending more. Rafale is also carrier capable . And growler are a big asset..

No doubt Rafale is better bird but SH is good too. And industrial advantage will be immense. American restrictions and sanction etc are the only worry.

I am sure whatever the IN go for they will have the best interest in mind for domestic industry too.

Very good analysis ... I believe Indian Navy will go for F-18 SH (Improved) rather than Rafale the reason is in future we would see Navy will work very closely with US Navy in Pacific and IOR ... Indian Navy is already operating P 8I anti submarine hunter / killers, it will eventually buy 24 MH 60 Romeo anti submarine helis, ELAS expected all future Aircraft Carriers etc ... It will bring more interoperability, Synergy and better integration between two navy's in future warfare ...

 

[Aarvy]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Weapons-trials-of-upgraded-LCA-Tejas-in-final-stages-737533
Any idea about this

 

[Flying Dagger]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Weapons-trials-of-upgraded-LCA-Tejas-in-final-stages-737533
Any idea about this

First the article was bad.

ASRAAM and Derby ER they might be undergoing tests from the platform.

They'll be the primary missile of Tejas until Astra mk2 and SFDR /K77 comes in

 

[Flying Dagger]

In the last few months we have realised our squadron strength is depleting and we need a platform to take care of Chinese and porkis.

Rafale is needed to help AMCA project. That was the explanation once. And we understand that.

But Tejas is needed badly to bring down the cost of war. We need a platform which can patrol the border continuously and keeps the cost down.

Tejas and dozens of AWACS ( preferably Indian ones ) and ground based radars with integrated SAM system is the best solution .

So Tejas should not be questioned no matter what.

We can certainly argue abt which platform or how many of those ?

Whether it's Rafale only or F -18 or Gripen whatever that's ok as long it helps the IAF and Indian aerospace industry

But without Tejas /AMCA we will be in a trap of no coming back.

 

[mayfair]

^^ We are adding at least 18 Su 30 MKIs and probably a few MiG 29s as well.

 

[assassin162]

^^ We are adding at least 18 Su 30 MKIs and probably a few MiG 29s as well.

Adding 18 mki's does not increases the squadron number, just covers previous and future loses.
Yes Mig 29 will help, 21 will be good, 34 will be very very good.

 

[vampyrbladez]

T/W ratio of F 18 SH with uprated engine on offer will increase considerable. Right now it is 1.13 vs 1.1 around ( 50% internal fuel ) with increase by around 30-38kn thrust you can see the difference .

Growler is indeed a dedicated ew plane a version of F 18 SH . But saying Rafale have same capability is a joke. May be you can spend a few billion that you have plenty and develop one based on Rafale but currently it's not.

F -18 have RCS of 1 m2 with RAM coating USA provide. That's pretty good

F-18 radar are slightly better and there will always be the option of getting better . USA is using aesa since long.. and they have the best ones.

Radar in Rafale have 800+ T/R i thought. Can you provide a official link ?


Then comes the cost of operation The whole premise of having high lo mix was to reduce the operation expense. As su are expensive to operate enter Rafale and you'll be spending more. Rafale is also carrier capable . And growler are a big asset..

No doubt Rafale is better bird but SH is good too. And industrial advantage will be immense. American restrictions and sanction etc are the only worry.

I am sure whatever the IN go for they will have the best interest in mind for domestic industry too.

1. SH has TWR of 1:1 and Rafale has TWR of 1.16 ~ 1.19 depending on fuel carried internally.

2. This is from the Libyan Civil War.

Rafale pilots are also very complementary about their SPECTRA self-protection suite, which is of critical importance as France does not have any aircraft dedicated to the Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) missions. “SPECTRA allowed us to begin operations over Libya the very same day the political decision was taken, and to fly deep into Libyan territory without an escort,” says one pilot, adding that “the Americans also flew in, but only after they had fired 119 Tomahawks to take out Libyan air defenses.”

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/125860/rafale-in-combat:-“war-for-dummies”.html

3. Rafale has an RCS of 0.1 m^2 as per this research paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._RCS_Estimation_and_Anti-Stealth_Technologies

This source gives Rafael's RCS with 4 A2A missiles as 0.75 m^2.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/defenseissues.net/2015/09/11/dassault-rafale-vs-f-35/amp/

4. Both radars have an AESA and have up to 200 km range. Rafale has around 848 T/R modules and SH has around 1000 T/R modules. The main difference is the more powerful back end of the RBE-2 AA.

5. F 18 SH would be great for the Indian Navy since it is a platform which has been tested and proven. Cost wise it would be lower and has foldable wings. The only bone of contention is US's political reliability.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

The only bone of contention is US's political reliability.

You know that is a 70 percent decider in any deal.
I totally don't RESPECT OR BELIEVE IN THEM.
Indigenous push is going but aside from that
THE PRIMARY CLINCHER FOR ANY SORT OF DEAL WITH THESE NATIONS MUST BE THE FIRM CONDITION FOR SUPPORT ON ENGINE TECH.
OTHERWISE no need to invest billions of dollars on such a country WHOSE FOREIGN POLICY CHANGE EVER FOUR YEAR.

 

[Flying Dagger]

1. SH has TWR of 1:1 and Rafale has TWR of 1.16 ~ 1.19 depending on fuel carried internally.

2. This is from the Libyan Civil War.



https://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/125860/rafale-in-combat:-“war-for-dummies”.html

3. Rafale has an RCS of 0.1 m^2 as per this research paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._RCS_Estimation_and_Anti-Stealth_Technologies

This source gives Rafael's RCS with 4 A2A missiles as 0.75 m^2.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/defenseissues.net/2015/09/11/dassault-rafale-vs-f-35/amp/

4. Both radars have an AESA and have up to 200 km range. Rafale has around 848 T/R modules and SH has around 1000 T/R modules. The main difference is the more powerful back end of the RBE-2 AA.

5. F 18 SH would be great for the Indian Navy since it is a platform which has been tested and proven. Cost wise it would be lower and has foldable wings. The only bone of contention is US's political reliability.

Right but Pakistan isn't Libya bro . To have something like growler will be a great advantage.

Offcourse USA is unreliable one of the reason we went for Rafale. Only the politician can take a call on that.

It's been two decades now may be one more decade to pass and things will clear up.