ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Pulkit]

That depends...

HAL is ready to start producing FOCs, but is dependent on IAF to give the official go ahead
=> IAF in turn is dependent on ADA, to finally achieve FOC

How can HAL be ready to produce something which has not been finalized?
Is the FOC version of Tejas ready at ADA leaving aside the FOC.

So either IAF gives HAL approval to start production, even though ADA once again failed them, or they will remain strict and insist of certification first, which then brings the whole production line in trouble. I would guess that the earlier solution will be prefered, at least by the gov.

hmmmm......

 

[darshan978]

I doubt this. F 414 has some 66 KN dry thrust. Had what you said been truth, MTOW of of Tejas Mk2 which is going to use F414 would not have been 17.5 tons.

ge f414 has around 57-58kN of thrust...

 

[darshan978]

What are you saying man? Tejas MK2 will be using Kaveri engine, not F414. F414 is for prototype testing only.

you should predict it rather than saying in full confidence buddy i'm also very optimistic about kaveri engine used on mk2 but its not possible unless kaveri engine thrust reaches 100kN otherwise it will be useless.and
kaveri reaching 100KN in current design configuration is far from possibility.

 

[Kshithij]

you should predict it rather than saying in full confidence buddy i'm also very optimistic about kaveri engine used on mk2 but its not possible unless kaveri engine thrust reaches 100kN otherwise it will be useless.and
kaveri reaching 100KN in current design configuration is far from possibility.

Kaveri is made for tejas Mk2. I don't see why 96-98kN is so worse compared to 100kN. What matters is dry thrust and Kaveri has more dry thrust than F414.

Tejas Mk2 is coming in 2025 and by then India is unlikely to integrate foreign engines. Foreign engines came to India due to foreign agents - UPA ruling India. No sane person craves for imported defence items which are overpriced and subjected to foreign whims

 

[Chinmoy]

No, the latest plan is 2456 F35s for US airforce, marine, navy.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...5-multiyear-procurement-strategy-to-s-447785/

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dod-reveals-f-35-multiyear-procurement-strategy-to-s-447785/

My bad.... Didn't count on USAF numbers.

That is incorrect. minimizing the existing numbers of fighters has never been the concept of 5th generation plane, it is simply the by-product of supersonic cruise. The reason that we haven't seen any country to field over 1000's of 5 generation planes are:
1. 5 g planes are still in early stage;
2. The major military powers don't see a WW3 scenario which requires an airforce of over 1000 5 gen fighters;
3. The quick development in aviation industry and AI may soon bring 6 generation plane into service earlier than expected.

Number of F-16 and F/A-18 which are currently in active service with USAF, Navy and Marines are 2137. Against these, number of F-35 planned for all the three services are 2183 with USAF getting the biggest pie against its F-16's

Number of F-15 in service with USAF is 455. Against these number of F-22 US fielded is 195.

Now cost of per unit F-16 is around $ 20 million (1998) and its production still going on for world wide customer. Per unit cost of F-35 is $ 85 Million to $ 123 Million depending on version and that too with world wide customer base. Moreover the production of F-35 has been divided into 5 year term for 15 years starting from 2021.

Per unit cost of F-15 was $ 30 Million and F-22 is $ 150 Million. So you see, the pinch of F-22 is much greater for US then that of F-35. If like F-35 they would have gone with global customer for F-22, we would have seen rise in its number too.

So along with technological upgrade, price and economy too matters. No one in his/ her sane mind would field 1000's of 5th gen fighters without taking economy in consideration.

@Sancho .... My point is just about 4th and 5th gen fighters number comparison. It has nothing to do with Tejas.

 

[square]

How can HAL be ready to produce something which has not been finalized?
Is the FOC version of Tejas ready at ADA leaving aside the FOC.

IOC.... FOC ...

fighters are menufectured since long around the world...
do anybody heards these IOC FOC before LCA....

 

[Pulkit]

IOC.... FOC ...

fighters are menufectured since long around the world...

Clearances are taken all over the world before starting the mass production.

do anybody heards these IOC FOC before LCA....

Sadly yes I had heard about it but I do get your point IOC and FOC are just another way of delaying Tejas and its progress.

 

[square]

Clearances are taken all over the world before starting the mass production.
Sadly yes I had heard about it but I do get your point IOC and FOC are just another way of delaying Tejas and its progress.

these IOC FOC are just specifictions....
if IAF would add supercruse as new specification ( which they surely will in AMCA)....then you know non of iaf fighter fit to get FOC..

 

[WolfPack86]

Tejas FOC most likely only in 2019

The target for the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas to achieve Final Operational Clearance (FOC) is December 2018, the Government informed Parliament on Monday.

However, official sources said this is likely to slip further to the middle of next year as there are several capabilities yet to be validated.

“Production for 20 LCA will be taken up after FOC by Aeronautical Development Agency, for which current target is December 2018,” Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha.

The major capabilities that are yet to be demonstrated on the Tejas are gun firing, air-to-air refuelling and new data-linked software defined radios, among others. The IAF has conveyed that its wants new data links as a standard feature on the FOC variant as communications are an essential feature for an aircraft to operate in a network-centric environment.

Dr. Bhamre said that the IOC aircraft is currently capable of “undertaking air defence operations and conventional ground attack with heavy bombs is feasible.”
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[WolfPack86]

Well i am going to kill HAL people for this delayed. And also Indian Air Force for the delaying FOC.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

ge f414 has around 57-58kN of thrust...

The variant we chose for LCA Mk2 has Dry thrust of 66 KN. 58 KN engine can not have MTOW of 17.5 tons which you must know. May be it is GE 414 EPE.

 

[Kshithij]

Tejas FOC most likely only in 2019

The target for the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas to achieve Final Operational Clearance (FOC) is December 2018, the Government informed Parliament on Monday.

However, official sources said this is likely to slip further to the middle of next year as there are several capabilities yet to be validated.

“Production for 20 LCA will be taken up after FOC by Aeronautical Development Agency, for which current target is December 2018,” Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha.

The major capabilities that are yet to be demonstrated on the Tejas are gun firing, air-to-air refuelling and new data-linked software defined radios, among others. The IAF has conveyed that its wants new data links as a standard feature on the FOC variant as communications are an essential feature for an aircraft to operate in a network-centric environment.

Dr. Bhamre said that the IOC aircraft is currently capable of “undertaking air defence operations and conventional ground attack with heavy bombs is feasible.”
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

HAL has been consistent about december 2018. There is no need to mistrust. HAL only said that they hoped to get it by june but also mentioned that the actual deadline is december. They have been consistent so far and hence believable.

 

[Enquirer]

Well i am going to kill HAL people for this delayed. And also Indian Air Force for the delaying FOC.

Even though ADA is the one responsible for the delay?

 

[Enquirer]

Well i am going to kill HAL people for this delayed. And also Indian Air Force for the delaying FOC.

Even though ADA is the one responsible for the delay?

 

[Enquirer]

The variant we chose for LCA Mk2 has Dry thrust of 66 KN. 58 KN engine can not have MTOW of 17.5 tons which you must know. May be it is GE 414 EPE.

F414 EPE is just a concept - no such engine exists as of now nor is there a project underway to develop it.
GE is willing to develop it if India were to fund it - but India won't fund it unless US allows GE to part with the tech.

 

[patriots]

Well i am going to kill HAL people for this delayed. And also Indian Air Force for the delaying FOC.

bhai iaf is the customer. .who wants the best product at least price. Bdw ada is responsible for foc certification. not hal....and hal is responsible for poor production rate..... I think only ifr will be happen in 2018......

 

[Sancho]

How can HAL be ready to produce something which has not been finalized?
Is the FOC version of Tejas ready at ADA leaving aside the FOC.
hmmmm......

Answered here =>

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...-news-and-discussions.1/page-851#post-1444360

 

[Sancho]

Tejas FOC most likely only in 2019

Read that too, it seems to be a statement of Air Chief Dhanoa, which means IAF is more pessimistic / realistic than ADA.
Given the history it's not surprising, but it's still amazing how they can keep failing the nation that badly.

 

[G10]

Public sector firms should only do basic engineering Research. Development and refinement should be handed over to private firms.

 

[Enquirer]

Public sector firms should only do basic engineering Research. Development and refinement should be handed over to private firms.

Or rather private companies in India should also start investing in engineering research. Always relying on someone else's design and license producing them is the reason why tech hasn't improved much in India.
Private companies should not expect the government to hand them winning designs and multi billion contracts on a platter! They should work and compete for it!
Allowing private participation in defense only resulted in the big wigs tying up with a foreign company to 'license produce' the products. How exactly is that any different from HAL/OFB license producing stuff? International politics could still result in the Indian private company to be asked to stop producing/supporting the product!