ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Enquirer]

By not posting in forums and writing ur own blogs but in private setting.

Snarkiness wasn't requested.
All discussion groups have a 'Block' function, this one doesn't.

 

[Saichand K]

Snarkiness wasn't requested.
All discussion groups have a 'Block' function, this one doesn't.

The same 'Block' function u seem to have utilized to its fullest.

 

[Immanuel]

Kaveri when ready will first enter a long testing phase on some of Test vehicles and after around 3-4 years of testing, it will probably end up powering the early LSPs and eventual MK-1A's during MLUs or overhauls. It won't power the MK-2 for a while. K-10 version whenever ready won't power anything in serious numbers till at least LCA MK-2 MLU timelines.

Testing is a slow process and keeping the LCA's stellar safety record requires these engines to be tested for a long time and you can be sure IAF won't ever use this engine widely till it proves to be reliable.

For now and MK-2 GE engines will be the prime power plants.

 

[Kshithij]

Kaveri when ready will first enter a long testing phase on some of Test vehicles and after around 3-4 years of testing, it will probably end up powering the early LSPs and eventual MK-1A's during MLUs or overhauls. It won't power the MK-2 for a while. K-10 version whenever ready won't power anything in serious numbers till at least LCA MK-2 MLU timelines.

Testing is a slow process and keeping the LCA's stellar safety record requires these engines to be tested for a long time and you can be sure IAF won't ever use this engine widely till it proves to be reliable.

For now and MK-2 GE engines will be the prime power plants.

When it is said that the engine is developed, it means it is developed. Testing takes some time but not too much. Multiple sorties in short span of time can be taken to get quick results in 1-2 years.

Testing for other engines like F404 did not take much long and there is no reason to say that it will be long for Kaveri. In fact the testing has been going on from late 2017 itself and the current results are obtained from these testings

 

[Immanuel]

When it is said that the engine is developed, it means it is developed. Testing takes some time but not too much. Multiple sorties in short span of time can be taken to get quick results in 1-2 years.

Testing for other engines like F404 did not take much long and there is no reason to say that it will be long for Kaveri. In fact the testing has been going on from late 2017 itself and the current results are obtained from these testings

Flight testing will have to be done on the entire envelope using all possible operational configurations, this alone given no hiccups can take 2-3 years let alone on limited test vehicles while a limited batch of engines are ordered. Subsequent orders can only come when the engine is certified.

 

[Kshithij]

Flight testing will have to be done on the entire envelope using all possible operational configurations, this alone given no hiccups can take 2-3 years let alone on limited test vehicles while a limited batch of engines are ordered. Subsequent orders can only come when the engine is certified.

The first forty MK1 and Mk1A are going to have F404 engines. It will be under production till 2020. Only later will Kaveri be needed.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Tejas Mk 2 FOC is set to Dec 2025. Hope it will be readied in this time.

 

[tharun]

By that time period every one will be inducting 5th generation aircraft, but we will be thigh slapping for tejas mk-2

Tejas Mk 2 FOC is set to Dec 2025. Hope it will be readied in this time.

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Flame Thrower]

By that time period every one will be inducting 5th generation aircraft, but we will be thigh slapping for tejas mk-2

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

Last teen fighter of US is going to stay till 2048

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/arst...ment-f-16-to-fly-for-usaf-through-2048/?amp=1

I remember that Last rafale is going to stay in france till 2060. Please correct me if I am wrong.

What's wrong if LCA mk2 comes available to IAF by 2025 and stays till 2060.!?

There will always be a need to use to low end fighters for low maintenance costs. I hope you also understand the huge maintenance costs of 5th.gen fighters... But we also need them, not to replace all the fighters though....

Thus I rest my case.

 

[Enquirer]

By that time period every one will be inducting 5th generation aircraft, but we will be thigh slapping for tejas mk-2

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

India too could be inducting 5th gen aircraft (in parallel with Tejas Mk2) in the 2025-2030 timeframe. It's not either-or...it's both!

 

[no smoking]

When it is said that the engine is developed, it means it is developed. Testing takes some time but not too much. Multiple sorties in short span of time can be taken to get quick results in 1-2 years.


Testing for other engines like F404 did not take much long and there is no reason to say that it will be long for Kaveri. In fact the testing has been going on from late 2017 itself and the current results are obtained from these testings

When people use F404 as an example to prove their point, they simply ignore couple of key things:


1. F404 was not a new engine developed from scratch, actually it can be traced back to GE9 demonstrator in 1960s. Then GE developed it into F101 for strategic bomber. After that F101 was developed into GE15 for P530, then continually into YJ101 for YF-17. Finally, as an alternative to troublesome P&W F110, YJ101 was upgraded into F404. So F404 was based on a quite mature engine, the check list was significantly shortened.

2. The cold war environment: it was the peak of cold war at the time. These projects received sufficient financial support in order to minimise the developing time. For example, F101 alone produced 40 prototype engines to carry out tests simultaneously. I don’t Indian scientists can even get half of that number for tests.

3. The huge gaps on experience, know-how and industrial capability between both sides. The fact is that American aviation industries have been working on jet engine s technologies since WW2. They had developed more than 10 jet engines successfully before F404. Their scientists had accumulated great experiences and knowledge from previous projects. Comparing to them, Indian scientists had almost zero before Kaveri. Also, keep this in mind: Americans had built up full series testing facilities/equipment in previous projects while Indians have to develop their own testing capability along with the kaveri.

 

[vishnugupt]

More realistic timelines regarding completion of project below, look like this-
Tejas MK1a:- 2025
Tejas MK2: - 2030 ( doubt if IAF can wait till that time )
AMCA- 2040.

 

[vishnugupt]

Last teen fighter of US is going to stay till 2048

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/fighting-falcon-puts-off-retirement-f-16-to-fly-for-usaf-through-2048/?amp=1

I remember that Last rafale is going to stay in france till 2060. Please correct me if I am wrong.

What's wrong if LCA mk2 comes available to IAF by 2025 and stays till 2060.!?

There will always be a need to use to low end fighters for low maintenance costs. I hope you also understand the huge maintenance costs of 5th.gen fighters... But we also need them, not to replace all the fighters though....

Thus I rest my case.

You may say so but in our scenario things will be different. China will have thousands of 5th G aircrafts and their Equipments will almost be equel to USA in quality and quantity in next 10 years. China may not engage in direct flight with India but they got a fool and extremely fanatic neighboring friend which is known as a Terroristan. Then China could fight indirect war with India for decades and without superior weapons we can do anything but bleed till we destroy one of them

 

[Flame Thrower]

You may say so but in our scenario things will be different. China will have thousands of 5th G aircrafts and their Equipments will almost be equel to USA in quality and quantity in next 10 years. China may not engage in direct flight with India but they got a fool and extremely fanatic neighboring friend which is known as a Terroristan. Then China could fight indirect war with India for decades and without superior weapons we can do anything but bleed till we destroy one of them

Could you name one 4th gen fighter version that was fielded in thousands....

None......

I doubt if they have 1000 4th gen fighters of all kind. I am not sure of the numbers lately.

At best China might have 400-500 5th gen. Costs of 5th gen are atleast twice of 4th gen. Their capabilities are totally worth the cost, no doubt it. But numbers same as 4th gen, don't think so.

Now, these 400-500 numbers are not procedured in a single decade, it takes time to produce numbers tactics and counter tactics.

Not only that when China inducts 5th gen, it will not replace it's own 4th gen but both complement each other. 4th gen in low threat, peace time patrol, while 5th gen in high treat, air superiority, high sam threat environment.

Anti 5th gen tech, jamming the incoming missiles, is advancing at faster pace than anything else. Right now, we don't need threat inflation to get the numbers....

 

[patriots]

3 things delaying tejas foc......

1.vibration ...when firing gun(no update till now)
2.vibration in python 5 at o.8 mach(no update till now)
3.ifr which is in testing ...its a long process

and we are hoping foc before 2018

again in a recent article iaf said that hal asked iaf to accept tejas with some concessions in foc......may be only. ifr is there which will be possible before 2018

 

[darshan978]

LCA Tejas production line ramped up, 16 fighters being manufactured every year
Zee Media Bureau Jul 31, 2018, 10:27 AM IST,

• 
  
  

Besides, the 40 aircraft (20 IOC & 20 FOC), Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has already cleared the acquisition of 83 LCA MK1A for IAF at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore.

New Delhi: Indian Air Force (IAF) is grappling with a shortage of fighter aircraft and to tide over the situation the government had sanctioned Rs 1381.04 crore in March 2017 to ramp up the production of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas from the existing eight jets per year to 16.


According to the Minister of State (Defence) Subhash Bhamre the IAF signed a contract with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for procurement of 20 Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) standard Tejas on March 31, 2006, which were to be completed by December 2011. The second contract between the IAF and HAL was signed on December 23, 2010 under which the delivery of 20 Final Operational Clearance (FOC) Tejas were to be completed by 2016.


Till date (July 30, 2018), the HAL had delivered nine Tejas fighters out of total 20 IOC aircraft (16 fighters and 4 trainers) to IAF. The remaining 11 IOC Tejas (7 fighters and 4 trainers) are still under production at HAL. According to the minister, the IOC Tejas can undertake Air Defence Operations and conventional ground attack with heavy bombs.






The production of 20 FOC Tejas aircraft will be taken up after FOC clearance by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) for which current target is December 2018, Bhamre said in a written reply to Telangana Rashtra Samithi MP Dr. Banda Prakash in the Rajya Sabha on July 30.


The minister also added that to ensure that the production rate of LCA Tejas is increased, major private partners are being involved who will undertake the construction of major modules while HAL will take on the role of lead integrator. The second line for structural and equipping activities at Aircraft Division, HAL will be established and the number of jigs for Front fuselage, Centre fuselage, Rear fuselage and Wings will also be increased.


The process to roll out a Tejas will be streamlined and the manufacturing cycle time reduced through improved supply chain management, learning and augmentation of manpower along with modularization of electrical looms for reduction of cycle time of aircraft looming.




Besides, the 40 aircraft (20 IOC & 20 FOC), Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has already cleared the acquisition of 83 LCA MK1A for IAF at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore.


Further, in order to bolster the IAF fighter squadron strength, the government has also planned to manufacture fighter aircraft through strategic partnership model

 

[vishnugupt]

Could you name one 4th gen fighter version that was fielded in thousands....

None......

I doubt if they have 1000 4th gen fighters of all kind. I am not sure of the numbers lately.

At best China might have 400-500 5th gen. Costs of 5th gen are atleast twice of 4th gen. Their capabilities are totally worth the cost, no doubt it. But numbers same as 4th gen, don't think so.

Now, these 400-500 numbers are not procedured in a single decade, it takes time to produce numbers tactics and counter tactics.

Not only that when China inducts 5th gen, it will not replace it's own 4th gen but both complement each other. 4th gen in low threat, peace time patrol, while 5th gen in high treat, air superiority, high sam threat environment.

Anti 5th gen tech, jamming the incoming missiles, is advancing at faster pace than anything else. Right now, we don't need threat inflation to get the numbers....

Not 4th G but 5th G are being inducted in thousands. You can see how many F35 has ardered by US airforce and same even bigger, suit will be followed by China

 

[Chinmoy]

Not 4th G but 5th G are being inducted in thousands. You can see how many F35 has ardered by US airforce and same even bigger, suit will be followed by China

If you talk about numbers, let us have a look.

F-22 186 in total. Any further production has been capped.
F-35 US has planned a total of 340 of these. Not yet inducted.

Moreover LM tweeked there previous version of 5th Gen to suit there definition of 5th gen.

5th gen concept has been brought to minimize the existing numbers of fighter aircraft. So no one in sane mind would think of fielding 1000's of 5t Gen fighters.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Moron, the F414 has same SFC as F404 which means that the fuel consumption per kN-h is same. Now, since F414 has higher thrust, it consumes overall fuel higher but not per unit thrust. When you add extra stages, the functioning of these will reduce SFC as well as increase engine size which in turn will reduce fuel tank size.

Now shut your anus and stop irritating me.

F414's additional thrust comes from higher compression ratio it operates. Higher thrust engines rquires higher amount of fuel but only when they are operated at higher than the highest thrust than lower thrust engine.
e.g If F 404 and F 414 is operated at 40 Kg der thrust, F 414 wont consume higher fuel than F404 (infact the fuel consumption shall be a bit low). However, when it will be operated above the highest thrust of 404, i.e 54 KN, it will consume higher amount of fuel. This is true for auto mobile engines as well in most of the circumstances.

The above is true only in the circumstance where the size and configuration of the engines are almost similar. The additional thrust is achieved through improving Compression Ratio or airflow.

 

[Pulkit]

Again FOC deadline moved to December....
Why do they even share a deadline when they are never gonna respect the term deadline....?

If by miracle this deadline is met how soon will the FOC version get delivered?

Out of 20 IOC 11 are still pending. WIll it be safe to say that we will get our first FOC standard aircraft by 2020?

LCA Tejas production line ramped up, 16 fighters being manufactured every year
Zee Media Bureau Jul 31, 2018, 10:27 AM IST,

• 
  
  
  • 
    

Besides, the 40 aircraft (20 IOC & 20 FOC), Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has already cleared the acquisition of 83 LCA MK1A for IAF at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore.

New Delhi: Indian Air Force (IAF) is grappling with a shortage of fighter aircraft and to tide over the situation the government had sanctioned Rs 1381.04 crore in March 2017 to ramp up the production of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas from the existing eight jets per year to 16.


According to the Minister of State (Defence) Subhash Bhamre the IAF signed a contract with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for procurement of 20 Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) standard Tejas on March 31, 2006, which were to be completed by December 2011. The second contract between the IAF and HAL was signed on December 23, 2010 under which the delivery of 20 Final Operational Clearance (FOC) Tejas were to be completed by 2016.


Till date (July 30, 2018), the HAL had delivered nine Tejas fighters out of total 20 IOC aircraft (16 fighters and 4 trainers) to IAF. The remaining 11 IOC Tejas (7 fighters and 4 trainers) are still under production at HAL. According to the minister, the IOC Tejas can undertake Air Defence Operations and conventional ground attack with heavy bombs.






The production of 20 FOC Tejas aircraft will be taken up after FOC clearance by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) for which current target is December 2018, Bhamre said in a written reply to Telangana Rashtra Samithi MP Dr. Banda Prakash in the Rajya Sabha on July 30.


The minister also added that to ensure that the production rate of LCA Tejas is increased, major private partners are being involved who will undertake the construction of major modules while HAL will take on the role of lead integrator. The second line for structural and equipping activities at Aircraft Division, HAL will be established and the number of jigs for Front fuselage, Centre fuselage, Rear fuselage and Wings will also be increased.


The process to roll out a Tejas will be streamlined and the manufacturing cycle time reduced through improved supply chain management, learning and augmentation of manpower along with modularization of electrical looms for reduction of cycle time of aircraft looming.




Besides, the 40 aircraft (20 IOC & 20 FOC), Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has already cleared the acquisition of 83 LCA MK1A for IAF at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore.


Further, in order to bolster the IAF fighter squadron strength, the government has also planned to manufacture fighter aircraft through strategic partnership model