ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Prashant12]

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[Kshithij]

Firstly, you will need a batch of new engines to replace the one stalled on the planes when these engines get to the end of the life;
Secondly, even we say Kaveri will be ready to fly in 3 years (highly unlikely), you will need at least another 5-8 years to get it mature and reliable enough to put on a single engine jet if everything goes smoothly.

Kaveri is already undergoing flight trials. It will be ready by next year. By 3 years, it will have reasonable flight trials too. Kaveri engine has been going on for 20 years now (since 1996). Also, India makes AL31F inhouse. So, Kaveri is not a distant programme anymore.

 

[patriots]

Kaveri is already undergoing flight trials. It will be ready by next year. By 3 years, it will have reasonable flight trials too. Kaveri engine has been going on for 20 years now (since 1996). Also, India makes AL31F inhouse. So, Kaveri is not a distant programme anymore.

as for my latest info.....Kaveri s problem are solved.
but you are saying. .it's undergoing flight trials..........if it's true then it's a good news . ..

source .. please

 

[Kshithij]

as for my latest info.....Kaveri s problem are solved.
but you are saying. .it's undergoing flight trials..........if it's true then it's a good news . ..

source .. please

I am sorry. I meant trial runs. Kaveri is not used in flights yet

 

[BON PLAN]

So IAF will have no choice other than buying more Rafales or buying more Tejas.

NO !
more Rafale AND more Tejas.

 

[BON PLAN]

Where would you get engines for Tejas from.....

Safranized Kaveri.

My opinion : A quickest lead time may be 36 months for a definitive engine.

 

[BON PLAN]

Secondly, even we say Kaveri will be ready to fly in 3 years (highly unlikely), you will need at least another 5-8 years to get it mature and reliable enough to put on a single engine jet if everything goes smoothly.

I don't think so.
3 years for a mature product seem likely : the hot parts came from a mature product, M88, and the cold parts is the less risky. You never need 5 to 8 years to improve it, because it's not a really new engine.

We have to wait the first flight tests of the KaveriM88 to expect to have some strong and reliable news.

 

[rohit b3]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=119713&shop=dae&modele=release

Kaveri has already been tested in flight in 2010 on a IL-76.
The current efforts are to improve the thrust to over 95 KN so it can be a formidable and powerful engine for the Tejas.

 

[Kshithij]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=119713&shop=dae&modele=release

Kaveri has already been tested in flight in 2010 on a IL-76.
The current efforts are to improve the thrust to over 95 KN so it can be a formidable and powerful engine for the Tejas.

The way Tejas Mk2 is said to have MToW of 17.5tons, I am of the understanding that Kaveri maybe 65/105kN engine which may have been developed with intention of using in AMCA as well as Tejas Mk2. The bypass of original Kaveri was said to be 0.16 which is too low and is bound to be increased to reasonable levels to get reasonable engine. With some additional modification and cooling vents, I wouldn't be surprised if Kaveri becomes 65/105kN engine

2010 trials were not full trial. The engine was even more underpowered than RD33 engine which India makes inhouse.

 

[BON PLAN]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=119713&shop=dae&modele=release

Kaveri has already been tested in flight in 2010 on a IL-76.
The current efforts are to improve the thrust to over 95 KN so it can be a formidable and powerful engine for the Tejas.

If I remember well, there was a problem with high altitude tests, no? Maybe it was earlier....

 

[darshan978]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=119713&shop=dae&modele=release

Kaveri has already been tested in flight in 2010 on a IL-76.
The current efforts are to improve the thrust to over 95 KN so it can be a formidable and powerful engine for the Tejas.

it was kabini engine kaveri core!!
gtre scientist never got guts to fly full blown engine. if they had they would have solved all problem and kaveri would have been running in tejas!!

 

[darshan978]

If I remember well, there was a problem with high altitude tests, no? Maybe it was earlier....

high altitude test failure happened in 2004 when they had kaveri flown first time
in 2010 kaveri was flown 2nd time and all high altitude problems were solved

 

[no smoking]

I don't think so.
3 years for a mature product seem likely : the hot parts came from a mature product, M88, and the cold parts is the less risky. You never need 5 to 8 years to improve it, because it's not a really new engine.

Then you underestimate the complexity of a jet engine. Yes, you have a mature core of M88, it will be lot easier and quicker to use cold parts designed and produced by French. But that is not the case, the potential deal will require the Indian cold parts with Indian material which were not designed to match the French core in the first place. There will be a lot of adjustment need to do, not only on Indian parts but French parts as well.
After that, the next biggest thing is quality control. Certainly, French will help but it is very doubtful how much French can get involved in those components suppliers within India. Unless India government agrees to allow the Kaveri to be produced by a production line designed by French with French machine. But in that case, we should call it M88 instead of Kaveri.

 

[patriots]

according to latest report ..from saurav jha ......all kaveri problem s are solved ..........
and another update.......sp 10 is coming in June end

 

[Steven Rogers]

Then you underestimate the complexity of a jet engine. Yes, you have a mature core of M88, it will be lot easier and quicker to use cold parts designed and produced by French. But that is not the case, the potential deal will require the Indian cold parts with Indian material which were not designed to match the French core in the first place. There will be a lot of adjustment need to do, not only on Indian parts but French parts as well.
After that, the next biggest thing is quality control. Certainly, French will help but it is very doubtful how much French can get involved in those components suppliers within India. Unless India government agrees to allow the Kaveri to be produced by a production line designed by French with French machine. But in that case, we should call it M88 instead of Kaveri.

Hilarious how China talking about quality control, M88 high temp section won't be used on Kaveri as the requirement for producing 100kn on Kaveri overshoots the current capability of the metallurgy which can be provided by m88. The temp requirements is 1800 degree Celsius which is 400 Celsius more than the M88. French will already be sourcing parts for the Indian Rafale's M88 for various sections of the engine from various MSMES, The design of engine is Indian, and if M88 core has hell bent into Indian engine, the core has to redesign than the engine's other sections. Hilarious how French will start making machineries for Kaveri when they have only 30 percent to provide by talks, but how much they can be shrinked is still unknown after when Indians solved all the related problems which occurred in the last air borne test, as of now and Chinese still searching how to get a thrust to weight of 7.8 from their engines.

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[HariPrasad-1]

But, the drag has been on conventional platforms—combat aircraft especially.

The Light Combat Aircraft programme has been on for some time. But, in the last few years, we got the induction, squadron formation all done. The credit goes to [former defence minister] Manohar Parrikar. He pushed us all. The LCA is flying. Mark 2 and Mark 1A are coming. There will be 83 Mark-1As.

But, there has been a delay.

Seven or eight years ago, we were told to increase the length [and] change the engine [of the aircraft].... After taking up the project, we looked for the engine. By the time the engine landed, HAL [Hindustan Aeronautics Limited] thought they should get orders fast. Then, IAF got ambitious. They had the Rafale coming with AESA radar, though it originally came without it. They asked for the ultimate radar in LCA, too. You assure me that you will give it, and I will give you [order for] 83, they [IAF] said. We said ho jayega.

Anyway, we are finalising Mark-2. It will take another month. With all the changes, it will not be a LCA. It is not in 10 tonnes category, but 17.5 tonnes category. It will be medium weight.

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/2018/05/18/interview-s-christopher-chairman-drdo.html

The weight 17.5 ton is significant. If this plane is made with weight carrying of 6 ton+, it will have a lots of advantages but the most significant is the we shall have a multi role capability at a minimal operating cost. We shall be able to free MKIs from many roles with substitution with LCA mk2. the only thing is that it should be faster, and aerodynamic. What I am unable to digest is about 8 ton weight. I do not know why it has increased by 1.5 ton over Nk1? I would have liked weight to be contained at 7 ton and Ej 230 fitted in it . That would give it 17.5 ton weight carrying easily with an exceptional T/W ratio with around 7 ton weight caring with 2200 km + range without refuel. With Desi AESA, Astra Mk2 and IRTS , it can be a very lethal plane.

 

[Prashant12]

The trainer is seen here flying among the Himalayan mountains.

 

[BON PLAN]

gtre scientist never got guts to fly full blown engine. if they had they would have solved all problem and kaveri would have been running in tejas!!

do you think it's only a question of blood and guts?
A little bit complicated...

 

[BON PLAN]

Then you underestimate the complexity of a jet engine. Yes, you have a mature core of M88, it will be lot easier and quicker to use cold parts designed and produced by French. But that is not the case, the potential deal will require the Indian cold parts with Indian material which were not designed to match the French core in the first place. There will be a lot of adjustment need to do, not only on Indian parts but French parts as well.
After that, the next biggest thing is quality control. Certainly, French will help but it is very doubtful how much French can get involved in those components suppliers within India. Unless India government agrees to allow the Kaveri to be produced by a production line designed by French with French machine. But in that case, we should call it M88 instead of Kaveri.

My very first position was :
Phase 1 : Safran help by adapting the M88 hot core to the cold indian part. With a 100% french made hot core (so no quality problem, no indian supply chain problem either).
Phase 2 : Safran help to developp a full indian hot core, with indian metallurgy, so as to give you a full indian engine. It will take time, so as to qualify an indian supply chain, with top level quality.

My previous answer was reporting to phase 1.

We heard from months that first flight test will occur in 2019. Safran don't say OK, but don't say no... So I think it runs pretty well.

 

[BON PLAN]

Hilarious how China talking about quality control, M88 high temp section won't be used on Kaveri as the requirement for producing 100kn on Kaveri overshoots the current capability of the metallurgy which can be provided by m88.

???
M88 was, from the beginning, studied so as to developp from 75Kn to 105Kn. The main difference is diameter.