ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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patriots

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There is some basic reason behind it. Time and Cost.

If IAF start inducting more and more FOC version to be upgraded later on, it would impact the overall cost factor of the project. Now upgrading itself would consume around a quarter of year and after tests would consume another 2 to 3 months. It means again absence of asset on field. 123 overall numbers were ordered keeping this in mind. Now unless IAF goes for more, upgradation of any more FOC to Mk1A standard would be futile.
ya I agree but depleting squadron strength and foreign fighter jets induction problem will definitely ...force iaf....to do so .....

and another query I heard somewhere that one tejas squadron consists of 16 fighters ....2 trainers and 2 fighters in stand by (don't know how much true this is).....
tejas trainer is also in delay...
 

Chinmoy

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ya I agree but depleting squadron strength and foreign fighter jets induction problem will definitely ...force iaf....to do so .....

and another query I heard somewhere that one tejas squadron consists of 16 fighters ....2 trainers and 2 fighters in stand by (don't know how much true this is).....
tejas trainer is also in delay...
Actually its the standard number in all IAF sqdn AFAIK, 16+4.

The depleting sqdn strength is the reason why IAF would not go into upgradation at the beginning itself.
 

kamaal

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Where is SP-10 ?

Is SP-9 inducted in the squadron ?

HAL is not delivering 1 LCA/month, they are not fulfilling the promise of 12 jets for 2018-19.
 

Pandeyji

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If IAF start inducting more and more FOC version to be upgraded later on, it would impact the overall cost factor of the project. Now upgrading itself would consume around a quarter of year and after tests would consume another 2 to 3 months. It means again absence of asset on field. 123 overall numbers were ordered keeping this in mind. Now unless IAF goes for more, upgradation of any more FOC to Mk1A standard would be futile.
I have a better idea. How about IAF stop behaving like a Delhi girl out shopping. Bhaiya cream color mein dikhao na, nahi nahi pink, could you bring magenta?
 

Steven Rogers

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I have a better idea. How about IAF stop behaving like a Delhi girl out shopping. Bhaiya cream color mein dikhao na, nahi nahi pink, could you bring magenta?
You design the requirement for fighter which can be match your opponents. Tejas with analog tarang RWR, and limited EW will be a toast against F16 bl52 or J10B, tejas with limited maneuverability will be a target for the F16s and J11s and J10s. IAF designs the requirement wrt match the opponents, Tejas is a technology no so advance aircraft, and rafale is considered technologically heavy aircraft, air force chief has talked about the tejas road map, but don't expect air force to become hyper nationalist and induct an aircraft which they can't use in the war.

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undeadmyrmidon

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You design the requirement for fighter which can be match your opponents. Tejas with analog tarang RWR, and limited EW will be a toast against F16 bl52 or J10B, tejas with limited maneuverability will be a target for the F16s and J11s and J10s. IAF designs the requirement wrt match the opponents, Tejas is a technology no so advance aircraft, and rafale is considered technologically heavy aircraft, air force chief has talked about the tejas road map, but don't expect air force to become hyper nationalist and induct an aircraft which they can't use in the war.

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Texas has all axis digital FBW relaxed stability a very high TWR greater than 1:1, very low wing loading, a high sustained turn rate, moderate sustained turn rate for maneuverability.

Only a fool would compare with third rate Chinese copies of Russian fighter jets and a mediocre F 16 Blk 52.
 

Steven Rogers

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Texas has all axis digital FBW relaxed stability a very high TWR greater than 1:1, very low wing loading, a high sustained turn rate, moderate sustained turn rate for maneuverability.

Only a fool would compare with third rate Chinese copies of Russian fighter jets and a mediocre F 16 Blk 52.
OH really then check what Air force chief says about it. He says It belongs to medium capability fighter and calls Rafale and Sukhoi as technology heavy aircraft and mig21 and Mig27 as technology light aircraft, he says The technology will be met in mk1a while the "performance " will be met in the mk2 variant. That means Tejas hasn't met the performance parameters set by the Air force, ie say good buy to STR for now.
Copy of Russia fighter still has better aerodynamics and design and classified as a heavy aircraft in performance and can only be countered with Su30mki or a MIG29UPG, not by tejas.

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Steven Rogers

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How do you know that tejas has limited EW? What is the limitation? Also, is Tarang still analog?
Tarang is the series of analog RWR. Does tejas have an EW suite at current. RWR still not integrated neither any other systems like MAWS, LWS, a comprehensive mission computer which can handle all the threads(mk1 computer is termed as weak for that issue), neither the jammer nor the software has currently been integrated so at current Tejas will be surviving at the mercy of Su30mki's SAP518 escort jammer in any mission .

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Pandeyji

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You design the requirement for fighter which can be match your opponents. Tejas with analog tarang RWR, and limited EW will be a toast against F16 bl52 or J10B, tejas with limited maneuverability will be a target for the F16s and J11s and J10s. IAF designs the requirement wrt match the opponents, Tejas is a technology no so advance aircraft, and rafale is considered technologically heavy aircraft, air force chief has talked about the tejas road map, but don't expect air force to become hyper nationalist and induct an aircraft which they can't use in the war.

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The problem isn't them along for new technology. The problem is their insistence on adapting these changes on the last moment leading to stalling of production. They could've asked for these changes a year or two ago. They didn't. Now they could say "Okay integrate it into mk2" but they wouldn't do that too.
 

Chinmoy

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I have a better idea. How about IAF stop behaving like a Delhi girl out shopping. Bhaiya cream color mein dikhao na, nahi nahi pink, could you bring magenta?
:biggrin2:..... Well said. The problem is what I have said long ago and even every now and then. IAF has never been on board in its development. Now lets not discuss whose fault it has been. But whenever is this the matter, you would have a customer who would ask for one or other thing every now and then. Whatever be the purpose, but you can't escape from it.

Now coming to upgradation, I would support IAF here. Massive upgradation of any platform in the beginning itself would potentially render the platform useless. Its a gradual procedure based on trial and evaluation. So the numbers of IOC, FOC and Mk1A version till now is reasonable in ratio.
 

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Tejas Mark 1A faces delay as air force adds to demands
While some of these systems can be bought off the shelf, integrating these on to the Tejas would require comprehensive redesign of the fighter's mission computer
Ajai Shukla | Bengaluru Last Updated at May 19, 2018 01:42 IST


A key reason for delays in indigenous weaponry such as the Tejas fighter and Arjun tank has been the military’s tendency to repeatedly enhance specifications, preventing weapon systems from leaving the drawing board and entering production.

This is now happening with the Tejas Mark 1A fighter.It was to enter production in 2020-21 with five specific enhancements. But, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has demanded additional features and the fighter could be entering a time-consuming development spiral that takes another three to four years.

Tejas Mark 1A was conceived specifically to bring the Tejas into production. In early 2015, the IAF, defence ministry and Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) agreed it could enter mass production as soon as HAL incorporated five improvements. Namely, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, an electronic warfare (EW) suite, a self-protection jammer, mid-air refuelling capability and easier maintainability.

With this clear map, the ministry sanctioned the building of 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters last December for an estimated Rs 330 billion.

Now, however, the IAF has added to that wish list. Among several additional demands are: “smart multi-function displays” for the cockpit, a “combined interrogator and transponder” to differentiate friendly aircraft from foes, a digital map generator and an improved radio altimeter.

While some of these systems can be bought off the shelf, integrating these on to the Tejas would require comprehensive redesign of the fighter’s mission computer. HAL estimates doing so and integrating the additional software could take up to three to four years.

“The existing ‘open architecture mission computer’ cannot support the software upgrades that are now needed for the Tejas Mark 1A”, says HAL chairman, T Suvarna Raju.

With HAL planning to deliver the 40 Tejas Mark 1 fighters currently on order by mid-2020, the Mark 1A must enter final assembly by that date. Before that, two years are needed for building the systems and assemblies that come together on the final assembly line.

This schedule requires the IAF to contract for the Tejas Mark 1A by mid-2018. That order is still awaited.

“The time line is certainly important from the IAF’s operational perspective. But, it is equally important from the standpoint of industrial production”, a HAL manager told Business Standard during a visit to the Tejas production line.

Another question: who will re-design the Tejas’ mission computer? The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a Defence R&D Organisation entity, designed the current version. “We have extensive experience, having designed mission computers for the Jaguar, Mirage and, more recently, the Hawk-i trainer. Furthermore, we are responsible for the Tejas Mark 1A project and time lines and would not like to be dependent on an external entity”, says Raju.

Worldwide, aircraft designers (ADA in this case) cede control to the manufacturer (HAL in this case), which is subsequently responsible for supporting the users (IAF), through spares, overhauls and upgrades during an aircraft’s service life cycle.

With both ADA and HAL keen on re-designing the Tejas’ mission computer, the former argues it is already developing a more powerful mission computer for the Tejas Mark 2. HAL, however, counters that the Mark 2 will be a decade in the making, ADA is targeting 2025 – while the Mark 1A has much tighter time lines.

HAL officials say they are on track with the original requirements of the Tejas Mark 1A. In December, global tenders were floated for the AESA radar and EW suite. Three companies have responded, Elta of Israel, Saab of Sweden and Thales of France. The winner is likely to be announced soon.

Meanwhile, the Tejas has already been installed with air-to-air refuelling capability, and maintainability improvements are almost complete. In the recently concluded IAF Exercise Gaganshakti, eight Tejas fighters participated with credit, consistently flying six sorties each per day and drawing praise from the air force.



Next the IAF would want a 120mm smoothbore gun on the Tejas , or they would not place orders.
In some ways it makes sense to incorporate the upgrades -this may delay the final design & production run by around 3-6 months; I strongly doubt that it would delay it by 3-4 years!!!
It may be accurate to say that the software upgrade and complete testing may take few years - but the hardware production needn't stop for this purpose!! The first Mk1A was not scheduled to roll out of assembly line for another 3 years anyways!!
Technically AESA radar and EW systems haven't yet been integrated onto the mission computer either - as neither of them have been procured as yet!!!!!
 

HariPrasad-1

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Texas has all axis digital FBW relaxed stability a very high TWR greater than 1:1, very low wing loading, a high sustained turn rate, moderate sustained turn rate for maneuverability.

Only a fool would compare with third rate Chinese copies of Russian fighter jets and a mediocre F 16 Blk 52.
That T/W ratio is for empty weight. Plane will not actually fly with almost no fuel. COrrect way to access is with hafl fuel load which is 1250 kg.
 

WolfPack86

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INDIA'S TEJAS MK-1A PROGRAM FACES DELAYS AS IAF INSISTS ON ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS
Serial production of India’s indigenously developed Tejas Mk-1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) could face further delays as the Indian Air Force (IAF) demands the incorporation of new and upgraded systems.

Sources from within manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) told Jane’s on 22 May that the IAF recently informed the state-owned aerospace company that the Mk-1A model needs to feature advanced ‘smart cockpit’ multi-function displays and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) systems.

Moreover, the service demands that digital map generators and upgraded radio altimeters be fitted onto the aircraft before it is approved for serial production.

Industry sources said that although some of these systems can be commercially sourced, integrating them with the software currently installed on the fighter’s mission computer would be “time-consuming” and could defer the fighter’s production schedule by about two years.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/05/indias-tejas-mk-1a-program-faces-delays.html
 

Indibomber

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INDIA'S TEJAS MK-1A PROGRAM FACES DELAYS AS IAF INSISTS ON ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS
Serial production of India’s indigenously developed Tejas Mk-1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) could face further delays as the Indian Air Force (IAF) demands the incorporation of new and upgraded systems.

Sources from within manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) told Jane’s on 22 May that the IAF recently informed the state-owned aerospace company that the Mk-1A model needs to feature advanced ‘smart cockpit’ multi-function displays and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) systems.

Moreover, the service demands that digital map generators and upgraded radio altimeters be fitted onto the aircraft before it is approved for serial production.

Industry sources said that although some of these systems can be commercially sourced, integrating them with the software currently installed on the fighter’s mission computer would be “time-consuming” and could defer the fighter’s production schedule by about two years.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/05/indias-tejas-mk-1a-program-faces-delays.html

I believe this exactly the tech which Lockheed Martin wants to transfer to India with F16s and this is just an indicator ...thoughts ladies and gents?
 
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