ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Raj Malhotra]

See the difference between the articles. This one is specifically said by the Air Chief BS Dhanoa. The others are there usual "unnamed sources" and "a high ranking officer in the IAF".

Another Two squadrons of Su-30s have been ordered or he is referring to balance aircraft still in production which will be delivered by 2020? And how many Su-30MKI have we ordered 232-272-292-312??????

 

[Kshithij]

We have about 240 Su30 as of now and total order is 272

Another Two squadrons of Su-30s have been ordered or he is referring to balance aircraft still in production which will be delivered by 2020? And how many Su-30MKI have we ordered 232-272-292-312??????

 

[VIP]

Guys What's going on????

This is lots & lots of confusion.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...chase-says-iaf-chief/articleshow/61677180.cms

'It's a very good deal': No overpricing in Rafale purchase, says IAF chief

PTI | Nov 16, 2017, 21:59 IST

JALANDHAR: The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday said that there was "no overpricing" in the Rafale purchase as the government had "negotiated a very good" deal for the French fighter aircraft.

"It is not overpricing ... We have negotiated for 36 French fighter aircraft Rafale (at a price) lower than that in the contract. The government has negotiated a very good deal," Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa said.

Stressing that it was a "government-to-government contract", he told the media at the Adampur Air Force station near here that the IAF was getting 36 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) at a greatly "negotiated price".

"It is definitely a better deal. It is lower than what was there in the MRMCA contract," he said without going into specifics.

The Rafale deal has been the focus of debate with Congress leader Rahul Gandhi accusing the Prime Minister of changing the "entire deal" to benefit a businessman, a charge debunked by the ruling BJP.

The Congress also claims technology is not being transferred to India under the deal.

Dhanoa said two aircraft had been purchased in a fly-away condition as an emergency measure.

"We are getting 50 per cent offset," he said, without elaborating.

On technology transfer, he said, "Technology may not be going to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) but it is coming to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and then to a lot of Indians".

The IAF chief said a plan was in place to deal with the "drop-down" - or dip - in IAF squadrons.

He said the government had ordered two squadrons of Su 30.

"The drop-down will be made up by two Rafale, two Su 30, two LCA squadrons and 80 more aircraft which will give four more squadrons," he said.

The government has authorised 42 squadrons to the IAF and at present there are 33.

He, however, added that the drop-down did not affect the performance of the force.

"It does not mean that we cannot carry out operations. We can do restricted operations. For carrying out full-spectrum operations the IAF needs a certain amount of force," he said.

"There was an order of 272 aircraft and once again we were 35 short by March 2017," he said.

Dhanoa said a contract was signed in March 2006 for 20 Tejas aircraft to be delivered between April 2009 and December 2010.

"Out of these 20 aircraft, only five were received ... Again a contract was signed in December 2010 for 20 more aircraft to be delivered between June 2014 and December 2016. So we have already committed to 40 aircraft in addition to 83 more Tejas," he said.

He said the IAF would induct Mark 2 fighters with higher thrust engines and new weapons by 2027.

Shortcomings in LCA Mark 1 will be removed in the LCA Mark 1A aircraft and then Mark 2 will be manufactured, he said.

"Gradually we will make advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, moving from low medium to high technology aircraft," he said.

He was answering the shitty question asked by pappu who doesn't even know what the deal is all about. It looks like lobbies have used their strings in Congress to pressurize govt to spill the beans of intentions on SE and so after tejas, rafale is under attack. I'm glad instead of govt officials or politicians, it's coming straight from the horse's mouth and we got some real info about what IAF thinks about Tejas.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

The design change will be in Mk2. MK1 will involve same desig and all these can't be incorporated. Tejas MK2 can't beat F16 as F16 is much bigger. But, if cost wise seen, Tejas will cost 20-25% of F16 when mass produced and hence beat it.

Please specify in which area Tejas can not beat F 16. Mk2 as planned can easily outclass F 16.It can carry almost 5 ton weight and its range shall be 2500 KM. It can have best in class radar and EW. France has offered Rafale electronics for tejas. What we need to do is to work 5 years on MK2 model and we can make best in class plane of the category. If kaveri is ready by that time with 65 kn Dry and 98 k wet, tejas can be a wonder which this world has never seen. A 6100 KG plane with 65 kn dry thrust with very small cross section equipped with best radar and EW and best weapons.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I wholeheartedly support this move.

Can I start one???????????????????

 

[Kshithij]

Please specify in which area Tejas can not beat F 16. Mk2 as planned can easily outclass F 16.It can carry almost 5 ton weight and its range shall be 2500 KM. It can have best in class radar and EW. France has offered Rafale electronics for tejas. What we need to do is to work 5 years on MK2 model and we can make best in class plane of the category. If kaveri is ready by that time with 65 kn Dry and 98 k wet, tejas can be a wonder which this world has never seen. A 6100 KG plane with 65 kn dry thrust with very small cross section equipped with best radar and EW and best weapons.

F16 has 9 hardpoints to carry weapons. 2 extra on wing tips are possible for F16 due to swept wing. But same not possible for delta wing if Tejas. Also, F16 has higher payload of 7ton and Mk2 will have 4.5 ton payload

 

[HariPrasad-1]

F16 has 9 hardpoints to carry weapons. 2 extra on wing tips are possible for F16 due to swept wing. But same not possible for delta wing if Tejas. Also, F16 has higher payload of 7ton and Mk2 will have 4.5 ton payload

No, MK2 will have 5 ton payload. Missiles can be carried in missile racks. MK2 with much lesser cross section and top of the class AESA radar and EW and exceptionally high T/W ratio shall beat F 16 any day.

 

[indiatester]

F16 has 9 hardpoints to carry weapons. 2 extra on wing tips are possible for F16 due to swept wing. But same not possible for delta wing if Tejas. Also, F16 has higher payload of 7ton and Mk2 will have 4.5 ton payload

Hmm... comparing LCA Mk1A with F16 block 52, per unit price is $94 million vs $165 million. So you are paying $18.3 million per hard point on F16 vs $13.4 million per hard point on Tejas.

 

[Kshithij]

Hmm... comparing LCA Mk1A with F16 block 52, per unit price is $94 million vs $165 million. So you are paying $18.3 million per hard point on F16 vs $13.4 million per hard point on Tejas.

Tejas doesn't cost 600 crores per unit. In limited production, the cost may be high but when it matures well, it will go down significantly. The 600 crore you are citing is including returns on investment for the capital investment and lack of scaling which is causing excessive labour cost per unit.

Please exclude the expendable items like fuel, drop tanks (which are lost once dropped), missiles which are launched routinely as training etc.

 

[Steven Rogers]

F16 has 9 hardpoints to carry weapons. 2 extra on wing tips are possible for F16 due to swept wing. But same not possible for delta wing if Tejas. Also, F16 has higher payload of 7ton and Mk2 will have 4.5 ton payload

4.5tons of payload is for mk1a, mk2 has high chances of featuring active array technology. Payload will certainly be higher and comparable to gripen E

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[tejas warrior]

The government is also thinking of doing away with the plans to build a single-engine fighter aircraft programme in favour of the light combat aircraft Tejas which is still in the evolution stage in terms of technology and capabilities.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/as-army-evaluates-foreign-missile-systems-govt-considers-developing-indigenous-variant-under-make-in-india/1/1091365.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/as-a ... 91365.html

 

[Kshithij]

4.5tons of payload is for mk1a, mk2 has high chances of featuring active array technology. Payload will certainly be higher and comparable to gripen E

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

Mk1A has 3.7-4 ton payload. 6.7-6.8 ton weight with all AESA, EW etc with 2.46 ton fuel and total take off weight 13.0-13.2 tons.

MK2A will remove the extraordinarily complex landing gear but increase the size. Fuel storage will increase, most probably by 1000 litres (0.82 tons). Bigger engine of 100kN will mean engine will have higher weight by 150kg. The net MToW will be 14.5-15 ton. So, 5ton payload is unlikely. It is more or less 4.5 ton.

 

[indiatester]

Tejas doesn't cost 600 crores per unit. In limited production, the cost may be high but when it matures well, it will go down significantly. The 600 crore you are citing is including returns on investment for the capital investment and lack of scaling which is causing excessive labour cost per unit.

Please exclude the expendable items like fuel, drop tanks (which are lost once dropped), missiles which are launched routinely as training etc.

Thanks. I understand that. My limited point was wrt comparision between Tejas and F16. Even at the current price points, you can get > 3 Tejas for the price of 2 F16 and more hard points!

 

[patriots]

now it is confirmed that we may see mk2 in 2027. ..
waiting for the confirmation of mod on sef deal

hope we may see more Tejas

 

[rohit b3]

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Another Two squadrons of Su-30s have been ordered or he is referring to balance aircraft still in production which will be delivered by 2020? And how many Su-30MKI have we ordered 232-272-292-312??????

most likely the balance. If new orders were placed, we would know.

 

[Kshithij]

Thanks. I understand that. My limited point was wrt comparision between Tejas and F16. Even at the current price points, you can get > 3 Tejas for the price of 2 F16 and more hard points!

Tejas has several advantages due to its delta wing structure, one of them being that delta wing is inherently rigid and doesn't need reinforcement. Another being that delta wings forms 1 single unit and there is no need to use extra parts with rivets as in swept wings. These two decrease the manufacturing difficulty but also decrease subsonic mileage by making it aerodynamically unstable. Tejas mileage is similar to F16 in transonic or supersonic speeds only (above 0.8 Mach).

In addition, USA has high labour costs which increases costs of everything. They also charge undue profits for export versions.

Overall, F16 costs about 120 million a piece. Jf17 block 2 costs 28 million dollars a piece and JF17 block 3 costs about 35 million dollars a piece. It is a better comparison to Tejas. Gripen C costs 45-50 million dollars a piece. Tejas Mk1A will likely be in the same range of 25-30 million dollars while Tejas MK2 with 100% indigenous content including engine is likely to be within 35 million dollars, similar to JF17 block 3, though with better technology. Though, with mass manufacture in thousands, costs can go down even further to even less than 15 million dollars.

The most important part is that cost of Tejas will only go within the economy and boost employment and GDP rather than help foreign country's economy

@rohit b3 @patriots according to Subhash Bhamre, by 2025 MK2 will get FOC (with radar and other equipment). So, induction will likely be earlier itself, as soon as it gets IOC

 

[patriots]

Tejas has several advantages due to its delta wing structure, one of them being that delta wing is inherently rigid and doesn't need reinforcement. Another being that delta wings forms 1 single unit and there is no need to use extra parts with rivets as in swept wings. These two decrease the manufacturing difficulty but also decrease subsonic mileage by making it aerodynamically unstable. Tejas mileage is similar to F16 in transonic or supersonic speeds only (above 0.8 Mach).

In addition, USA has high labour costs which increases costs of everything. They also charge undue profits for export versions.

Overall, F16 costs about 120 million a piece. Jf17 block 2 costs 28 million dollars a piece and JF17 block 3 costs about 35 million dollars a piece. It is a better comparison to Tejas. Gripen C costs 45-50 million dollars a piece. Tejas Mk1A will likely be in the same range of 25-30 million dollars while Tejas MK2 with 100% indigenous content including engine is likely to be within 35 million dollars, similar to JF17 block 3, though with better technology. Though, with mass manufacture in thousands, costs can go down even further to even less than 15 million dollars.

The most important part is that cost of Tejas will only go within the economy and boost employment and GDP rather than help foreign country's economy

@rohit b3 @patriots according to Subhash Bhamre, by 2025 MK2 will get FOC (with radar and other equipment). So, induction will likely be earlier itself, as soon as it gets IOC

according to air Force chief it's 2027

 

[Steven Rogers]

Mk1A has 3.7-4 ton payload. 6.7-6.8 ton weight with all AESA, EW etc with 2.46 ton fuel and total take off weight 13.0-13.2 tons.

MK2A will remove the extraordinarily complex landing gear but increase the size. Fuel storage will increase, most probably by 1000 litres (0.82 tons). Bigger engine of 100kN will mean engine will have higher weight by 150kg. The net MToW will be 14.5-15 ton. So, 5ton payload is unlikely. It is more or less 4.5 ton.

You're mixing Airforce and Naval fighter, complex and over engineered landing gear is on Naval platform which is 8900kgees heavy, instead HAL has earlier said that they will make it around 1000kgees less and then add the requirements, and the final product will be around 6ktons, currently LCA flies with several ballast plates for balancing the aircraft, stored on spaces left for ew and heavier radar. Fuel storage will be increased by 600kgees on mk2 and will be around 3000KGEES.GEF414 WEIGHS around 1100kgees(50kgees heavier than the F404) . The mk1a will carry pods and ew pods on board pylon not internally, current GEF404. The dry weight of fighter will be around 6k tons, and mtow 13.2 tons, 2450kgees fuel, you can now easily calculate the Payload. Not to mention Multiple racks will be used on later.

 

[WolfPack86]

It is good that govt is rethinking on single engine fighter deal. We must develope tejas mk 2 quickly before 2022. I want see prototype of tejas mk 2 flying in 2021.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

And here is our respected @bennedose on crap peddled by prestitutes