ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[WolfPack86]

Indian Air Force must induct 250 tejas mk 1a.

 

[rohit b3]

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/11/column-the-indian-air-forces-tyranny-of-arithmetic.html

So I went through , and this article is also pushing the imports, only in a much sweeter tone.

The first point i noticed was, it says Tejas mk1 is comparable to Gripen A and inferior to Gripen C. I disagree. Tejas mk1 in IOC configuration would be comparable to Gripen A. However the FOC Tejas mk1 can very well match the Gripen C and even show superiority in many aspects such as :

1. Superior Fly by Wire system
2. Higher TWR
3. Lower Wing Loading
4. More use of composites
5. Higher Stealth

Now back to the numbers game. The article basically suggests that "The Tejas mk2 is neither being pushed nor funded and hence we have a shortfall and hence the imports are necessary ".

Isnt that the whole logic we are up against? We want the Tejas mk2 to be funded and pushed. Now offcourse if there's no Tejas mk2, there will be a huge void.

Here's what the IAF should look like in 2032

270 Su-30MKI
120 Tejas mk2
123 Tejas mk1/mk1A
36 Rafales
67 Mig 29
49 Mirage2000
145 Jaguars
= 810 fighters.

With an average of 20 fighters per squ. , it comes to 40.5=~41 squadrons.

Now offcourse if the 114 fighter import comes in, Tejas mk2 is out of that equation .

So there's only 2 solution to this

1. Enchance Tejas production to 16 by 2019 and 24 by 2025 . The former is already underway, while the latter still has 8 years and can be done easily.

2. Fund and push the Tejas mk2.

Its that simple.

 

[aditya10r]

Wh

So I went through , and this article is also pushing the imports, only in a much sweeter tone.

The first point i noticed was, it says Tejas mk1 is comparable to Gripen A and inferior to Gripen C. I disagree. Tejas mk1 in IOC configuration would be comparable to Gripen A. However the FOC Tejas mk1 can very well match the Gripen C and even show superiority in many aspects such as :

1. Superior Fly by Wire system
2. Higher TWR
3. Lower Wing Loading
4. More use of composites
5. Higher Stealth

Now back to the numbers game. The article basically suggests that "The Tejas mk2 is neither being pushed nor funded and hence we have a shortfall and hence the imports are necessary ".

Isnt that the whole logic we are up against? We want the Tejas mk2 to be funded and pushed. Now offcourse if there's no Tejas mk2, there will be a huge void.

Here's what the IAF should look like in 2032

270 Su-30MKI
120 Tejas mk2
123 Tejas mk1/mk1A
36 Rafales
67 Mig 29
49 Mirage2000
145 Jaguars
= 810 fighters.

With an average of 20 fighters per squ. , it comes to 40.5=~41 squadrons.

Now offcourse if the 114 fighter import comes in, Tejas mk2 is out of that equation .

So there's only 2 solution to this

1. Enchance Tejas production to 16 by 2019 and 24 by 2025 . The former is already underway, while the latter still has 8 years and can be done easily.

2. Fund and push the Tejas mk2.

Its that simple.

Where are the Pak-fa's dude???

________________________________________

I think 80-90 f-16/Gripen e won't hurt the Tejas mk2 program but beyond that number the numbers of mk2 would take hit.

Let's assume the Pak-fa is inducted in 2027 and 20 jets a year is the rate of production.

That puts at 100 Pak fa by 2032.

So by 2032 my estimate is like

200 Tejas mk1a+mk2
80 f-16/Gripen e
36 rafales
280 su-30mki
120 mig-29+Mirage 2000
100 Pak-fa
80 jaguars (old models being phased out).

About 900 jets or 45 squadrons.

 

[kamaal]

I am simply disappointed with the current govt, they are keeping everything secret now a days. Though it has some positives too.

HAL is not making any details public regarding MK1A and that's just pathetic. The final specifications should have been made public by now or are they worried that once again they'll be under delivering on their promises.

 

[Kshithij]

Wh

Where are the Pak-fa's dude???

________________________________________

I think 80-90 f-16/Gripen e won't hurt the Tejas mk2 program but beyond that number the numbers of mk2 would take hit.

Let's assume the Pak-fa is inducted in 2027 and 20 jets a year is the rate of production.

That puts at 100 Pak fa by 2032.

So by 2032 my estimate is like

200 Tejas mk1a+mk2
80 f-16/Gripen e
36 rafales
280 su-30mki
120 mig-29+Mirage 2000
100 Pak-fa
80 jaguars (old models being phased out).

About 900 jets or 45 squadrons.

AMCA is not PAK-FA. Anyway, status quo thinking serves no purpose. Whatever you say must be result oriented and actionable. Please refrain from making up these numbers.

 

[Kshithij]

I am simply disappointed with the current govt, they are keeping everything secret now a days. Though it has some positives too.

HAL is not making any details public regarding MK1A and that's just pathetic. The final specifications should have been made public by now or are they worried that once again they'll be under delivering on their promises.

It is better kept secretive considering that the opposition are outright enemies. RSS can be trusted due to their track record. That much is enough. Let only the results be delivered

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Best option to get out of PAK-FA mess is to invest more in AMCA platform and scale it up into AHCA (equivalent to heavier FGFA) apart from a basic medium weight version. Hence we get two fighter aircrafts out of a single AMCA design. The AMCA design is scalable.

 

[patriots]

being honest those things will create a huge pressure on Hal ..

we may see good results ...

but if iaf shown disadvantage s of Tejas ...but it should not be in media..it's maligning our status... again the culprit should be punished

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Various components of Tejas Mk1A like radar have not been finalised and formal order has also not been placed on HAL yet. Even if this happens quickly the earliest first such aircraft will emerge from HAL is 2022. Conclusion Tejas is already fxxked by Mod, HAL & IAF.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Here is our vintage @ersakthivel on the crap paddled by IAF.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

 

[Steven Rogers]

So I went through , and this article is also pushing the imports, only in a much sweeter tone.

The first point i noticed was, it says Tejas mk1 is comparable to Gripen A and inferior to Gripen C. I disagree. Tejas mk1 in IOC configuration would be comparable to Gripen A. However the FOC Tejas mk1 can very well match the Gripen C and even show superiority in many aspects such as :

1. Superior Fly by Wire system
2. Higher TWR
3. Lower Wing Loading
4. More use of composites
5. Higher Stealth

Now back to the numbers game. The article basically suggests that "The Tejas mk2 is neither being pushed nor funded and hence we have a shortfall and hence the imports are necessary ".

Isnt that the whole logic we are up against? We want the Tejas mk2 to be funded and pushed. Now offcourse if there's no Tejas mk2, there will be a huge void.

Here's what the IAF should look like in 2032

270 Su-30MKI
120 Tejas mk2
123 Tejas mk1/mk1A
36 Rafales
67 Mig 29
49 Mirage2000
145 Jaguars
= 810 fighters.

With an average of 20 fighters per squ. , it comes to 40.5=~41 squadrons.

Now offcourse if the 114 fighter import comes in, Tejas mk2 is out of that equation .

So there's only 2 solution to this

1. Enchance Tejas production to 16 by 2019 and 24 by 2025 . The former is already underway, while the latter still has 8 years and can be done easily.

2. Fund and push the Tejas mk2.

Its that simple.

These so called journos, aren't getting much news of Indian Defence, so they are cooking their own. LCA is well funded and even gov cleared mk2 as priority, so it is false to say that it is scrapped.

 

[Narasimh]

So I went through , and this article is also pushing the imports, only in a much sweeter tone.
.

Yes, it does..quite clearly even though author was trying to be subtle about it. But that's ok.

But this whole "numbers game" that IAF is playing at, seems a waste of effort, money and time on the part of MoD.

MoD should straight away ask this question to IAF :
"If those 100 odd SEFs are bought instead of Tejas, will you guarantee that during a two front war, we would be having an upper hand against both the rivals?
And let's assume that by some miracle and added help of these 100 SEFs, we tame the two neighbors by defeating their combined strength of over 2000 fighters and attack aircrafts, would they not look to escalate the situation with ICBMs and wouldn't we have to escalate similarly?"

IAF would surely defend by saying its deterrence and to prevent a war this is a must.

The fact remains those 100 SEFs are not going to increase any deterrence than what it is now.
In fact a better way to have deterrence is to establish joint commands. Our Army, Navy and Strategic command has quite the striking capability too and that's why I advocated for these joint commands and the procurement should be done at command capability level.
If that is accounted for and we deploy a combination of 300 Tejas mk1a + Tejas remote piloted versions + Mk2 would provide more deterrence than those SEFs. We already got sophisticated, long range jets with Rafale and Sukhois.

Problem is that the war fighting scenarios have changed a lot since nukes but our strategic thinking/procurement process has somehow not evolved completely.

 

[Flame Thrower]

@ersakthivel bhai, you've done a great job.

You banged him so hard.....he'll remember you before writing any defense article.

 

[Vinod DX9]

That time it was still LCA and yet to be christened as Tejas

 

[Filtercoffee]

Adding foreign fighters will increase neighborhood pressure. I hope and want the Tejas Blocks/Marks and timeline to go further then these speculated block ends (MK1a, MK2 and end).

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Guys What's going on????

This is lots & lots of confusion.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...chase-says-iaf-chief/articleshow/61677180.cms

'It's a very good deal': No overpricing in Rafale purchase, says IAF chief

PTI | Nov 16, 2017, 21:59 IST

JALANDHAR: The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday said that there was "no overpricing" in the Rafale purchase as the government had "negotiated a very good" deal for the French fighter aircraft.

"It is not overpricing ... We have negotiated for 36 French fighter aircraft Rafale (at a price) lower than that in the contract. The government has negotiated a very good deal," Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa said.

Stressing that it was a "government-to-government contract", he told the media at the Adampur Air Force station near here that the IAF was getting 36 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) at a greatly "negotiated price".

"It is definitely a better deal. It is lower than what was there in the MRMCA contract," he said without going into specifics.

The Rafale deal has been the focus of debate with Congress leader Rahul Gandhi accusing the Prime Minister of changing the "entire deal" to benefit a businessman, a charge debunked by the ruling BJP.

The Congress also claims technology is not being transferred to India under the deal.

Dhanoa said two aircraft had been purchased in a fly-away condition as an emergency measure.

"We are getting 50 per cent offset," he said, without elaborating.

On technology transfer, he said, "Technology may not be going to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) but it is coming to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and then to a lot of Indians".

The IAF chief said a plan was in place to deal with the "drop-down" - or dip - in IAF squadrons.

He said the government had ordered two squadrons of Su 30.

"The drop-down will be made up by two Rafale, two Su 30, two LCA squadrons and 80 more aircraft which will give four more squadrons," he said.

The government has authorised 42 squadrons to the IAF and at present there are 33.

He, however, added that the drop-down did not affect the performance of the force.

"It does not mean that we cannot carry out operations. We can do restricted operations. For carrying out full-spectrum operations the IAF needs a certain amount of force," he said.

"There was an order of 272 aircraft and once again we were 35 short by March 2017," he said.

Dhanoa said a contract was signed in March 2006 for 20 Tejas aircraft to be delivered between April 2009 and December 2010.

"Out of these 20 aircraft, only five were received ... Again a contract was signed in December 2010 for 20 more aircraft to be delivered between June 2014 and December 2016. So we have already committed to 40 aircraft in addition to 83 more Tejas," he said.

He said the IAF would induct Mark 2 fighters with higher thrust engines and new weapons by 2027.

Shortcomings in LCA Mark 1 will be removed in the LCA Mark 1A aircraft and then Mark 2 will be manufactured, he said.

"Gradually we will make advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, moving from low medium to high technology aircraft," he said.

 

[rohit b3]

Guys What's going on????

This is lots & lots of confusion.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...chase-says-iaf-chief/articleshow/61677180.cms

'It's a very good deal': No overpricing in Rafale purchase, says IAF chief

PTI | Nov 16, 2017, 21:59 IST

JALANDHAR: The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday said that there was "no overpricing" in the Rafale purchase as the government had "negotiated a very good" deal for the French fighter aircraft.

"It is not overpricing ... We have negotiated for 36 French fighter aircraft Rafale (at a price) lower than that in the contract. The government has negotiated a very good deal," Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa said.

Stressing that it was a "government-to-government contract", he told the media at the Adampur Air Force station near here that the IAF was getting 36 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) at a greatly "negotiated price".

"It is definitely a better deal. It is lower than what was there in the MRMCA contract," he said without going into specifics.

The Rafale deal has been the focus of debate with Congress leader Rahul Gandhi accusing the Prime Minister of changing the "entire deal" to benefit a businessman, a charge debunked by the ruling BJP.

The Congress also claims technology is not being transferred to India under the deal.

Dhanoa said two aircraft had been purchased in a fly-away condition as an emergency measure.

"We are getting 50 per cent offset," he said, without elaborating.

On technology transfer, he said, "Technology may not be going to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) but it is coming to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and then to a lot of Indians".

The IAF chief said a plan was in place to deal with the "drop-down" - or dip - in IAF squadrons.

He said the government had ordered two squadrons of Su 30.

"The drop-down will be made up by two Rafale, two Su 30, two LCA squadrons and 80 more aircraft which will give four more squadrons," he said.

The government has authorised 42 squadrons to the IAF and at present there are 33.

He, however, added that the drop-down did not affect the performance of the force.

"It does not mean that we cannot carry out operations. We can do restricted operations. For carrying out full-spectrum operations the IAF needs a certain amount of force," he said.

"There was an order of 272 aircraft and once again we were 35 short by March 2017," he said.

Dhanoa said a contract was signed in March 2006 for 20 Tejas aircraft to be delivered between April 2009 and December 2010.

"Out of these 20 aircraft, only five were received ... Again a contract was signed in December 2010 for 20 more aircraft to be delivered between June 2014 and December 2016. So we have already committed to 40 aircraft in addition to 83 more Tejas," he said.

He said the IAF would induct Mark 2 fighters with higher thrust engines and new weapons by 2027.

Shortcomings in LCA Mark 1 will be removed in the LCA Mark 1A aircraft and then Mark 2 will be manufactured, he said.

"Gradually we will make advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, moving from low medium to high technology aircraft," he said.

See the difference between the articles. This one is specifically said by the Air Chief BS Dhanoa. The others are there usual "unnamed sources" and "a high ranking officer in the IAF".

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Various components of Tejas Mk1A like radar have not been finalised and formal order has also not been placed on HAL yet. Even if this happens quickly the earliest first such aircraft will emerge from HAL is 2022. Conclusion Tejas is already fxxked by Mod, HAL & IAF.