ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Vijyes]

There are several challenges ahead as of now :
1. As per the article as soon as present LCA Mk-1 production is done, the 2.5 LCA assembly line of LCA goes vacant, The 83 Mk1a is only a AoN as of now and not a contract. A contract must be signed ASAP. We can't let let the factories sit idle at a time we are in utter need of modernisation.
2.Tejas Mk1a and Tejas Mk2 timeline are almost coinciding (regardind prototype or first flight) i.e 2019-20, Officially IAF is interested in MK-2 and hence a Financial investor in the same. Therefore it's Now a Tejas Vs Tejas or even more precisely ADA vs HAL. Since there hasn't been any official contract so far I won't be surprised if IAF banks with Mk2 over Mk1a, and Mk2 order potentially going over or near 150-180.

Anyways GoI needs to two things:
1. Don't let any aircraft manufacturing line idle.
2. Provide a clear roadmap of how much and in what specification(Mk1a/Mk2) are they going to buy in a timeframe of next 8-10 years.

Mk2 isn't even designed yet and you say that it coincides with Mk1A? MK1A is completed and only integration of avionics and components like radar, EW suite etc is remaining. By 2019, we expect to get Kaveri engine, not first flight of Mk1A!

 

[soikot banerjee]

Mk2 isn't even designed yet and you say that it coincides with Mk1A? MK1A is completed and only integration of avionics and components like radar, EW suite etc is remaining. By 2019, we expect to get Kaveri engine, not first flight of Mk1A!

ADA annual report says otherwise!
Also, as a matter of fact the IAF committee to look after the tejas MK2 programme has only been authorised to ADA and not HAL, again IAF is a 30% share holder of the total cost in developing MK2. So technically MK2 will be more closer or exactly what they need. Bigger range, IRST, Better engine. Remember Mk1a was afterall a stopgap jugaad by HAL till MK2 arrives, and if at all MK1a is ready then why only an AoN has been given and not

an official contract has been signed between IAF and HAL?

 

[TPFscopes]

IF GoI/MoD are serioust about tackling the depleting SQN strength of the IAF they should place another 40-80 unit MK.1A order ASAP and allow HAL to start signing long term outsourcing contracts for their tier 1/2/3 suppliers.

IAF can have 120 MK.1As (ie 2 ADDITIONAL SQNs) in the same time they can have 83 MK.1As at current commited orders, without effecting the timelines for the LCA MK.2 AT ALL- this really is a no-brainer. I will lose a LOT of faith in this GoI if they don't at least exercise this option.

1. more orders from IAF will be done only after the rugged use of LCAs in their combat profile, which is only possible after the complete induction of First sqauadron (it might be possible within 2018 first half).
2. All orders of mk1 IOC & FOC will be upgraded to Mk1a which led to the total mk1a to 123 in numbers.
3. LCA MK2 is not progressing at decent rate and It might be a bad news for LCA lovers.

As per the article as soon as present LCA Mk-1 production is done, the 2.5 LCA assembly line of LCA goes vacant, The 83 Mk1a is only a AoN as of now and not a contract. A contract must be signed ASAP.

Tejas Mk1a and Tejas Mk2 timeline are almost coinciding (regardind prototype or first flight) i.e 2019-20, Officially IAF is interested in MK-2 and hence a Financial investor in the same.

Provide a clear roadmap of how much and in what specification(Mk1a/Mk2) are they going to buy in a timeframe of next 8-10 years.

1. No production line will be vacant in any near future as FOC is unoficially almost cleared but delayed in favour of increment of Indigenous content including AESA. You will see the FOC by mid half of 2018.
2. Contract sign is not an issue, It will also be signed as soon as FOC will get achieved.
3. LCA mk1a and Mk2 is not coinciding each other. Mk1a will be on production line by late 2019 or very early 2020 where as LCA mk2 is planned to get its FOC by end of 2023.
4. Mk2 will almost hit 2/3rd of the LCA Mk1a production line by 2024-25. also LCA mk2 number of orders will be depend on the SE jet tender fate. If SE jet tender passed than it will reduce the number of LCA MK2 but it is likely that it will be inducted in IAF (numbers maybe reduced), if NDA government continues to rule the central after 2024.

 

[lcafanboy]

Can Produce 24 LCA-Tejas fighter jets per annum: HAL Chief
Published September 10, 2017 SOURCE: RAUNAK KUNDE / NEWS BEAT / IDRW.ORG

With an aim to speed up production of Light Combat Aircraft, HAL Chief T Suvarna Raju has asked 3 Main private companies involved in the production of main and rear fuselage along with wings to speed up their production capabilities so that HAL can produce more than 16 planes per year. Raju speaking to media said that HAL can produce 8 more LCA-Tejas per year if outsourced private companies can fast track their delivery schedules of contracted fuselage and wings. IAF has placed orders for 40 LCA-Tejas MK1 and issued Acceptance of Necessity (AON) for 83 LCA-Tejas MK-1A. HAL plans to demonstrate in the next 18 to 24 months Mk-1A configuration and start producing them from 2019 onwards. From 2019 HAL will have Production capacity to manufacture 16 LCA-Tejas per year, but due to freeing of Hawk Production line and availability of additional manpower, HAL Chief said that it can produce 24 LCA-Tejas aircraft per year without adding another additional production line if private companies can improve their delivery schedule for the outsourced fuselage and the wings of LCA-Tejas . HAL plans to deliver Indian Air Force 123 indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter jets in its fleet by 2024-25 and make use same production line to produce Tejas MK-2 aircraft.

http://idrw.org/can-produce-24-lca-tejas-fighter-jets-per-annum-hal-chief/#more-147304 .

 

[Adioz]

Can Produce 24 LCA-Tejas fighter jets per annum: HAL Chief
Published September 10, 2017 SOURCE: RAUNAK KUNDE / NEWS BEAT / IDRW.ORG

With an aim to speed up production of Light Combat Aircraft, HAL Chief T Suvarna Raju has asked 3 Main private companies involved in the production of main and rear fuselage along with wings to speed up their production capabilities so that HAL can produce more than 16 planes per year. Raju speaking to media said that HAL can produce 8 more LCA-Tejas per year if outsourced private companies can fast track their delivery schedules of contracted fuselage and wings. IAF has placed orders for 40 LCA-Tejas MK1 and issued Acceptance of Necessity (AON) for 83 LCA-Tejas MK-1A. HAL plans to demonstrate in the next 18 to 24 months Mk-1A configuration and start producing them from 2019 onwards. From 2019 HAL will have Production capacity to manufacture 16 LCA-Tejas per year, but due to freeing of Hawk Production line and availability of additional manpower, HAL Chief said that it can produce 24 LCA-Tejas aircraft per year without adding another additional production line if private companies can improve their delivery schedule for the outsourced fuselage and the wings of LCA-Tejas . HAL plans to deliver Indian Air Force 123 indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter jets in its fleet by 2024-25 and make use same production line to produce Tejas MK-2 aircraft.

http://idrw.org/can-produce-24-lca-tejas-fighter-jets-per-annum-hal-chief/#more-147304 .

Wonder why every progress of such an important national project is not reported by MSM, the way it is done by IDRW and its ilk. Meanwhile, they keep writing articles on single-engine tender. Is it 'cause these foreign lobbies pay them to write these articles? If so, this begs the question why HAL cannot spend an equivalent amount to propagate paid news as a means of marketing their product? Are there any laws against doing so? Fact is I cannot stand to see the treason the MSM perpetrates just to get some extra $$$. This should be brought to the fore in social media and media houses that try to misuse their reach and people's trust in such an underhand manner and try to sabotage indigenous technology and production. These idiots will spend an hour showcasing someone driving a bike running on compressed air as a tech marvel, meanwhile the scientists at DRDO working their a** off do not get next to nil coverage. If only the public cared about defence matters. The public thinks they care, while all that has been created in their minds is a post-truth political construct where the ineptness of Armed Forces acquisition programs is covered by the bravery of Indian soldiers. This is insulting to the Indian Soldier and is equivalent of saying that just because Indian soldiers are brave, we do not need to give them the best as they will get the job done regardless. The public merely washes their hands off of matters plaguing the defence establishment after giving their customary solemn salute to the martyrs. I think I have gone off on a tangent for long enough.

Long story short, HAL should try to fight this media-foreign arms lobby nexus by calling out their bluff and should take steps that a similar foreign defence firm - Indian defence firm - Indian media nexus is not formed under the guise of the SO model.

 

[IndianHawk]

Long story short, HAL should try to fight this media-foreign arms lobby nexus by calling out their bluff and should take steps that a similar foreign defence firm - Indian defence firm - Indian media nexus is not formed under

So foreign firms are good at advertising but who cares. Decision will be taken by officers of IAF +IAS + defense minister+ PMO. None of them give a damn about who is advertising what. They have other hardcore compulsion at work. HAL knows it too.

The problem of indegenious defense industry has been that nobody was getting rich out of it legally because of govt monopoly. Now with inclusion of private sector capitalism can work. Ambani tata adani Mahindra kalyani l&t all will try to get rich by defense legally. They will also take care of interest of decision makers on par with foreign firms.

In defense business advertising is mostly useless. Decisions are taken by either on strategic basis or on merit or corruption or a combination of these factors in any case advertising is useless.

In capitalism when people get rich system works:biggrin2:

 

[Vijyes]

So foreign firms are good at advertising but who cares. Decision will be taken by officers of IAF +IAS + defense minister+ PMO. None of them give a damn about who is advertising what. They have other hardcore compulsion at work. HAL knows it too.

The problem of indegenious defense industry has been that nobody was getting rich out of it legally because of govt monopoly. Now with inclusion of private sector capitalism can work. Ambani tata adani Mahindra kalyani l&t all will try to get rich by defense legally. They will also take care of interest of decision makers on par with foreign firms.

In defense business advertising is mostly useless. Decisions are taken by either on strategic basis or on merit or corruption or a combination of these factors in any case advertising is useless.

In capitalism when people get rich system works:biggrin2:

Was chanakya rich? Why are you bothered about money? Congress was not after money but was evil and a puppet of foreign powers

 

[soikot banerjee]

Wonder why every progress of such an important national project is not reported by MSM, the way it is done by IDRW and its ilk. Meanwhile, they keep writing articles on single-engine tender. Is it 'cause these foreign lobbies pay them to write these articles? If so, this begs the question why HAL cannot spend an equivalent amount to propagate paid news as a means of marketing their product? Are there any laws against doing so? Fact is I cannot stand to see the treason the MSM perpetrates just to get some extra $$$. This should be brought to the fore in social media and media houses that try to misuse their reach and people's trust in such an underhand manner and try to sabotage indigenous technology and production. These idiots will spend an hour showcasing someone driving a bike running on compressed air as a tech marvel, meanwhile the scientists at DRDO working their a** off do not get next to nil coverage. If only the public cared about defence matters. The public thinks they care, while all that has been created in their minds is a post-truth political construct where the ineptness of Armed Forces acquisition programs is covered by the bravery of Indian soldiers. This is insulting to the Indian Soldier and is equivalent of saying that just because Indian soldiers are brave, we do not need to give them the best as they will get the job done regardless. The public merely washes their hands off of matters plaguing the defence establishment after giving their customary solemn salute to the martyrs. I think I have gone off on a tangent for long enough.

Long story short, HAL should try to fight this media-foreign arms lobby nexus by calling out their bluff and should take steps that a similar foreign defence firm - Indian defence firm - Indian media nexus is not formed under the guise of the SO model.

Let me show you something:

Above is the article with a very neutral heading but a Adani fauvorism material at beginning and A anti-adani portion in end. Just to keep things or atleast look neutral.

Now beloved idrw and Indiandefensenews:

Supplementing this with a poll

These websites are usually quick in copy pasting Ajai shukla's article but one article two days back in which head of Boeing India said that the OEMs are not actually very much interested in tying up with indian private sector for manufacturing fighter jets due to there inexperience and instead want a public-private partnership more viable due to their experience. These websites don't even published it, instead published later half of HAL chief's part , clearly shows how they can easily manipulate the fanboys who would easily nod their heads with whatever the government does whether right or wrong doen't matter. They act like blinds.

 

[Vijyes]

Let me show you something:

Above is the article with a very neutral heading but a Adani fauvorism material at beginning and A anti-adani portion in end. Just to keep things or atleast look neutral.

Now beloved idrw and Indiandefensenews:
View attachment 19991

View attachment 19992

Supplementing this with a poll
View attachment 19993

These websites are usually quick in copy pasting Ajai shukla's article but one article two days back in which head of Boeing India said that the OEMs are not actually very much interested in tying up with indian private sector for manufacturing fighter jets due to there inexperience and instead want a public-private partnership more viable due to their experience. These websites don't even published it, instead published later half of HAL chief's part , clearly shows how they can easily manipulate the fanboys who would easily nod their heads with whatever the government does whether right or wrong doen't matter. They act like blinds.

How does that even matter when we have extremely rational people who compare features and ToT before ordering? If India wanted private manufacturers, India would ask HAL to share the manufacturing with Adani to make more Tejas. Why even bother about gripen?

 

[balwnatlk]

hope not reposted

Tejas cockpit simulator.

 

[lcafanboy]

Newly Issued patches for the 1st Sq of IAF that operates Tejas, Sqdn No45 The Flying Daggers, made by Saurav Chordia

http://*****************/attachments/teas-45-jpg.2473/http://*****************/attachments/tejas-no-45-sq-png.2474/http://*****************/attachments/tejas-no45-generic-patch-jpg.2475/http://*****************/attachments/tejassa-png.2476/

 

[devlex]

^^^ can see the alphabets only !!

 

[S.Balaji]

Wonder why every progress of such an important national project is not reported by MSM, the way it is done by IDRW and its ilk. Meanwhile, they keep writing articles on single-engine tender. Is it 'cause these foreign lobbies pay them to write these articles? If so, this begs the question why HAL cannot spend an equivalent amount to propagate paid news as a means of marketing their product? Are there any laws against doing so? Fact is I cannot stand to see the treason the MSM perpetrates just to get some extra $$$. This should be brought to the fore in social media and media houses that try to misuse their reach and people's trust in such an underhand manner and try to sabotage indigenous technology and production. These idiots will spend an hour showcasing someone driving a bike running on compressed air as a tech marvel, meanwhile the scientists at DRDO working their a** off do not get next to nil coverage. If only the public cared about defence matters. The public thinks they care, while all that has been created in their minds is a post-truth political construct where the ineptness of Armed Forces acquisition programs is covered by the bravery of Indian soldiers. This is insulting to the Indian Soldier and is equivalent of saying that just because Indian soldiers are brave, we do not need to give them the best as they will get the job done regardless. The public merely washes their hands off of matters plaguing the defence establishment after giving their customary solemn salute to the martyrs. I think I have gone off on a tangent for long enough.

Long story short, HAL should try to fight this media-foreign arms lobby nexus by calling out their bluff and should take steps that a similar foreign defense firm - Indian defense firm - Indian media nexus is not formed under the guise of the SO model.

DRDO has realized that they have created a knowledge vacuum in public regarding their role in creating a technology enabled fighting machine for Indian Armed forces. And MSM has occupied this vacuum with all detritus they can spew to assuage their masters with hidden agenda. This realization has come to a fore during the DRDO expo in Chennai where stalls where manned by actual scientists who worked on the displayed technology, their enthusiasm & pride was very evident in the way they fielded questions from 10 year old to 60 year olds all throughout the day. DRDO folks had said that a huge impetus has come from the top to educate the public about achievements, we would be seeing a lot of public outreach programs from armed forces as well this fiscal.

Another importance policy-change espoused at the expo was the direction that has come from the top is to promote their products to friendly overseas countries even if our MOD is not showing interest, which is the case with most products.

The MSM at the behest of middlemen have hemmed and hawed about INSAS since Kargil....but it has no bearing on assimilation of INSAS in Armed forces. We have last week witnessed the induction of 2nd gen of our INSAS in the avatar of Excalibur MK 1C... The armed forces went about its trials silently with user feedback from Assam Rifles leading to further iterations of the rifle from MK 1A to MK1C...resulting in its induction while for the whole time MSM was bad mouthing INSAS. Now lets see how they eat their own words.This shows that a strong GOI administration with backing of user gets the job done despite certain sections in MOD, MSM & Middle men muddying the waters. INSAS will be our own M16.

MSM's cross hairs is on Tejas full time in the recent past, repeating ad nausem the imminent rfi of foreign single engine aircraft....it will turn out as INSAS...Tejas will be our own F16. Note the timing of Mr.Raju's contention reg inbuilt capacity to ramp up...note method Raju has employed to raise an alarm at the same time providing a solution - "stick" (alarm of low orders) & "carrot" (capacity availability in ramping up fighter nos there by filling order books) and .....the sound-byte was intended for powers to be...

But i would say DRDO needs a hard core PRO to counter the bullshit being bandied about by MSM.

 

[soikot banerjee]

DRDO has realized that they have created a knowledge vacuum in public regarding their role in creating a technology enabled fighting machine for Indian Armed forces. And MSM has occupied this vacuum with all detritus they can spew to assuage their masters with hidden agenda. This realization has come to a fore during the DRDO expo in Chennai where stalls where manned by actual scientists who worked on the displayed technology, their enthusiasm & pride was very evident in the way they fielded questions from 10 year old to 60 year olds all throughout the day. DRDO folks had said that a huge impetus has come from the top to educate the public about achievements, we would be seeing a lot of public outreach programs from armed forces as well this fiscal.

Another importance policy-change espoused at the expo was the direction that has come from the top is to promote their products to friendly overseas countries even if our MOD is not showing interest, which is the case with most products.

The MSM at the behest of middlemen have hemmed and hawed about INSAS since Kargil....but it has no bearing on assimilation of INSAS in Armed forces. We have last week witnessed the induction of 2nd gen of our INSAS in the avatar of Excalibur MK 1C... The armed forces went about its trials silently with user feedback from Assam Rifles leading to further iterations of the rifle from MK 1A to MK1C...resulting in its induction while for the whole time MSM was bad mouthing INSAS. Now lets see how they eat their own words.This shows that a strong GOI administration with backing of user gets the job done despite certain sections in MOD, MSM & Middle men muddying the waters. INSAS will be our own M16.

MSM's cross hairs is on Tejas full time in the recent past, repeating ad nausem the imminent rfi of foreign single engine aircraft....it will turn out as INSAS...Tejas will be our own F16. Note the timing of Mr.Raju's contention reg inbuilt capacity to ramp up...note method Raju has employed to raise an alarm at the same time providing a solution - "stick" (alarm of low orders) & "carrot" (capacity availability in ramping up fighter nos there by filling order books) and .....the sound-byte was intended for powers to be...

But i would say DRDO needs a hard core PRO to counter the bullshit being bandied about by MSM.

BTW what is MSM?
I am new on this forum.

 

[Vijyes]

BTW what is MSM?
I am new on this forum.

Main Stream Media = MSM. The other part is social media

 

[soikot banerjee]

We can suggest them something about some PR campaign or a Blog regarding the true stories behind the machines which media doesn't shows?
But point to be noted is DRDO's PR and Advertisement mechanism sucks, but not their products.

 

[lcafanboy]

1. more orders from IAF will be done only after the rugged use of LCAs in their combat profile, which is only possible after the complete induction of First sqauadron (it might be possible within 2018 first half).
2. All orders of mk1 IOC & FOC will be upgraded to Mk1a which led to the total mk1a to 123 in numbers.
3. LCA MK2 is not progressing at decent rate and It might be a bad news for LCA lovers.

1. No production line will be vacant in any near future as FOC is unoficially almost cleared but delayed in favour of increment of Indigenous content including AESA. You will see the FOC by mid half of 2018.
2. Contract sign is not an issue, It will also be signed as soon as FOC will get achieved.
3. LCA mk1a and Mk2 is not coinciding each other. Mk1a will be on production line by late 2019 or very early 2020 where as LCA mk2 is planned to get its FOC by end of 2023.
4. Mk2 will almost hit 2/3rd of the LCA Mk1a production line by 2024-25. also LCA mk2 number of orders will be depend on the SE jet tender fate. If SE jet tender passed than it will reduce the number of LCA MK2 but it is likely that it will be inducted in IAF (numbers maybe reduced), if NDA government continues to rule the central after 2024.

Good news for LCA Tejas FANS 3-4 sqdns (60-80) more will be ordered once LCA MK1-A production starts. Cross posting from IDF PARIKRAMA

" IAF and MOD discussed for LCA MK1A

• MOD also made categorically clear that post MK1A 1 squadron handover, a fresh order of 3-4 more squadrons ( 60-80) will be placed as well.
• IAF has clearly said they look at Kaveri with Safran core for maximum LCAs and wants to pursue it further
• Further MOD/GOI and IAF both have been soft on HAL in last 3 years and now want to see if HAL can deliver the present new promises.
• The new milestones/reviews /priority points are
  • Achieving FOC soon.
  • Showing good progress on MK1A project.
  • Increasing the production speed. to 16/year and further ensuring local ecosystem in place for 24/year rate achievement
  • Addressing issues in the presently delivered aircrafts and rectifying the mistakes.
  • Changing the way issues raised has been addressed in the past with more professional approach and time-bound SLAs adherence "

 

[Vijyes]

What do you mean by safran cores? That is same as safran engine with minor modifications. Also, safran core is 75kN thrust

 

[Sidd]

Good news for LCA Tejas FANS 3-4 sqdns (60-80) more will be ordered once LCA MK1-A production starts. Cross posting from IDF PARIKRAMA

" IAF and MOD discussed for LCA MK1A

• MOD also made categorically clear that post MK1A 1 squadron handover, a fresh order of 3-4 more squadrons ( 60-80) will be placed as well.
• IAF has clearly said they look at Kaveri with Safran core for maximum LCAs and wants to pursue it further
• Further MOD/GOI and IAF both have been soft on HAL in last 3 years and now want to see if HAL can deliver the present new promises.
• The new milestones/reviews /priority points are
  • Achieving FOC soon.
  • Showing good progress on MK1A project.
  • Increasing the production speed. to 16/year and further ensuring local ecosystem in place for 24/year rate achievement
  • Addressing issues in the presently delivered aircrafts and rectifying the mistakes.
  • Changing the way issues raised has been addressed in the past with more professional approach and time-bound SLAs adherence "

Well I have seen the complete post on IDF.If IAF and MoD are buying more Rafale(180). I was expecting no to SE af like f16 or gripen..and at least 350 number of Tejas series jet..
Sad news Tejas MK2 will die for IAF I guess...

 

[Sidd]

What do you mean by safran cores? That is same as safran engine with minor modifications. Also, safran core is 75kN thrust

If the news is true than sad news for Kaveri..