ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[lcafanboy]

Is it possible that Modi and Parikkar offered carrot and sticks to France to get Rafale deal? I mean arm twisting french to first work on kaveri engine and when certain mile stones are met India will go with the deal. This is because previously also they offered to help get kaveri working but once they got MMRCA deal they backtracked. But Modi and Parrikar ensured that now with this deal they first deliver Engine technology and then get the whole Rafale deal. If so then I must congratulate them on their prudence, thats why I am big fan of this pure bhartiya Government.

This also reflects in confidence that government is contemplating Tejas export and there is no order for GE F404 engine. Both these development points one thing there is more to Rafale deal than what it looks like. Cudos to Modi and Parrikar if they have successfully arm twisted french.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Is it possible that Modi and Parikkar offered carrot and sticks to France to get Rafale deal? I mean arm twisting french to first work on kaveri engine and when certain mile stones are met India will go with the deal. This is because previously also they offered to help get kaveri working but once they got MMRCA deal they backtracked. But Modi and Parrikar ensured that now with this deal they first deliver Engine technology and then get the whole Rafale deal. If so then I must congratulate them on their prudence, thats why I am big fan of this pure bhartiya Government.

This also reflects in confidence that government is contemplating Tejas export and there is no order for GE F404 engine. Both these development points one thing there is more to Rafale deal than what it looks like. Cudos to Modi and Parrikar if they have successfully arm twisted french.

Maybe they have an uprated engine ready and they do this for lime light?

 

[Abhishek Shrivastava]

LCA

DRDO DG (Aero) C P Ramanarayanan said LCA with Kaveri engine might fly in 2018. He said DRDO is already in consultation with Snecma. Already Rs 2,105 crore has been spent on the project. Another Rs 600 crore is likely to be needed for the testing phase.

Good to hear, Kaveri still alive and progressing at snails pace.

 

[tejas warrior]

My reference to Parrikar's statement comparing the Tejas to the Rafale was a note against procuring any other 1 or 2 engine 4G jets.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If all these goes well then its very good, If things run south then consider Tejas MK2 dead as well with NLCA MK2..

 

[Defcon 1]

But the trillion dollar question is

can we produce tejas in numbers to keep up with exports and domestic needs
AF has given firm orders of 80 tejas and suppose if we get order for 20-50 LCA's then
HAL will be doomed as they can produce 4 to maximum 8 every year

That is exactly the right question to ask. People here are dreaming about export of Tejas overlooking the fact that current production lines are booked till at least 2028. For export purposes, or to cancel the single engine RFI, a new production line with the production capability of at least 8 fighters per annum will be required.
That in turn depends upon more orders of LCA Mk1A. However, if the single engine RFI goes through, there will be no more orders of LCA, hence no more production lines. Therefore, without increasing domestic orders for LCA Mk1A or getting confirmed export orders now, the future export orders for the fighter are doomed.

 

[Rahul Singh]

It seems there is a misconception that Kaveri is replacing F-404 and F-414. The fact is GTRE is only bringing K-10/XX version for certification by mating it with a Tejas. Once certified GTRE will them move towards developing a set-only version for GHATAK UCAV. But as of now I don't see GTRE taking up development of any 98-110 version. And untill a Kaveri version is mature enough to be put as standard turbofan in Tejas F-404 is staying.

I just hope when a Tejas is due for engine replacement that is after flying for 4000 hrs a light weight Kaveri with +95KN thrust, better SFC and TVC(if needed) is ready and matured for 're-equipping.

 

[Rahul Singh]

If all these goes well then its very good, If things run south then consider Tejas MK2 dead as well with NLCA MK2..

It seems DM has let IAF step ahead about new single engine fighter only for letting them feel that IAF is not under any pressure to buy more Tejas instead. But as evident from his statement DM is cooking something in mind.

I guess when NLAC MK-2 moves towards manufacturing of prototypes --after NLCA MK-1 has completed arrested landing trials which is due next year--DM might ask IAF to choose a land based version of it instead.

 

[Prashant12]

DRDO still aims for Kaveri in LCA

Kaveri, the indigenous aeroengine with over 25 years’ chequered story, may after all fly on the indigenous LCA fighter as was originally planned.

Senior officials of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which spearheads the two marquee programmes, said on Sunday that they hoped to to take the help of an overseas aeroengine maker to revive Kaveri, remove its shortcomings and get it certified to safely power the fighter.

France’s engine maker Snecma, which already has projects with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, is seen as a candidate; it could come on the back of offsets (or return obligations) that are due after the government ordered 36 Rafale fighter planes from another French company Dassault for nearly Rs. 59,000 crore.

“We will most probably use it for the LCA [Light combat Aircraft]. If not, we will use it for ‘Ghatak’, the proposed combat drone,” said DRDO Chairman S. Christopher, who is also Secretary, Defence R&D, at a news conference here. The engine was test flown on a Russian IL-76 aircraft back in 2011 and was found wanting on at least five counts, scientists had earlier said.

C.P. Ramanarayanan, who as Director General (Aero R&D) heads the aeronautics labs and their programmes, said Rs. 2,100 crore has been pumped into the Kaveri programme.

Tejas certification

LCA Tejas will undergo the remaining three or four mandated tests up to March and will go in for certification as battle-ready or ‘FOC’ by mid-2017.

Aeronautical Development Agency Director Commodore C.D. Balaji (retd) said one of the prototypes would be fitted with a probe or nozzle for mid-air refuelling and begin flight tests in a few weeks. An actual refuelling with a flying tanker would be tried out by March 2017.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...ill-aims-for-kaveri-in-lca/article9368391.ece

 

[abingdonboy]

It seems DM has let IAF step ahead about new single engine fighter only for letting them feel that IAF is not under any pressure to buy more Tejas instead. But as evident from his statement DM is cooking something in mind.

I guess when NLAC MK-2 moves towards manufacturing of prototypes --after NLCA MK-1 has completed arrested landing trials which is due next year--DM might ask IAF to choose a land based version of it instead.

True that the Ghatal UCAV is a primary target for the Kaveri as of now BUT it is clear the LCA is still being lined up for the Kaveri. Why else would they be using the LCA as a test bed?

+ it says a lot about the trust they have in the Kaveri that they are going to put it in the single engined LCA first (yes I know it has been tested in a IL-76 before but not this Snemeca optimised version).

 

[republic_roi97]

That is exactly the right question to ask. People here are dreaming about export of Tejas overlooking the fact that current production lines are booked till at least 2028. For export purposes, or to cancel the single engine RFI, a new production line with the production capability of at least 8 fighters per annum will be required.

I think GOI and MOD would have thought about that before putting forward the proposal for export.

 

[Rahul Singh]

True that the Ghatal UCAV is a primary target for the Kaveri as of now BUT it is clear the LCA is still being lined up for the Kaveri. Why else would they be using the LCA as a test bed?

+ it says a lot about the trust they have in the Kaveri that they are going to put it in the single engined LCA first (yes I know it has been tested in a IL-76 before but not this Snemeca optimised version).

GTRE won't be using Tejas as a test bird! What they are aiming is mating of K-10/XX to prove it's performance on actual platform/fighter.

Earlier plan was to loan a Mig-29 from IAF for proving it's performance before moving on to Tejas. But after apparent denial by IAF they are going straight to Tejas. May SNEMECA's involvement is helping with confidence factor for both IAF and GTRE. In any case a positive development. And will lay much needed foundation. I only hope they highter thrust version of K-10 in range of 100-110 KN for MK-2 engine replacement.

 

[Rahul Singh]

I think GOI and MOD would have thought about that before putting forward the proposal for export.

DM has already mandated HAL for exporting 10 percent of existing capacity and increase or add additional capacity if necessary. What more clarity one might ask.

 

[Defcon 1]

DM has already mandated HAL for exporting 10 percent of existing capacity and increase or add additional capacity if necessary. What more clarity one might ask.

That is for missile capacity, not aircraft.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ystems-export-india-manohar-parrikar-2859454/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

HAL export sub systems of Aircrafts such as mission computer and other electronics and engine spares to various countries, Including Russians for mission computers, The link is posted here in this very thread ..

That is for missile capacity, not aircraft.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ystems-export-india-manohar-parrikar-2859454/

 

[Defcon 1]

HAL export sub systems of Aircrafts such as mission computer and other electronics and engine spares to various countries, Including Russians for mission computers, The link is posted here in this very thread ..

That is not a point of discussion. HAL's current production capacity of LCA is 8 and will be increased to 16 by 2020. For fulfilling the requirement of 120 IAF fighters and 40 IN fighters, HAL will need to keep its production lines busy till at least 2028. So any exports must come after 2028 or require additional production lines. What has exporting mission computers for Su30SM got to do with that?

 

[republic_roi97]

That is not a point of discussion. HAL's current production capacity of LCA is 8 and will be increased to 16 by 2020. For fulfilling the requirement of 120 IAF fighters and 40 IN fighters, HAL will need to keep its production lines busy till at least 2028. So any exports must come after 2028 or require additional production lines. What has exporting mission computers for Su30SM got to do with that?

I said in my earlier post that GOI and MOD must've thought of that while making the export proposal. What they can do is license production of the components of export variant of LCA by third party (perhaps, private companies) and then assembling of the aircraft in HAL facility. This way they can create a separate line for export LCAs.
So, I think that export LCA might not be included into the 2020 figure of 16 aircraft per year, it might just be for IAF and IN.

 

[Defcon 1]

I said in my earlier post that GOI and MOD must've thought of that while making the export proposal. What they can do is license production of the components of export variant of LCA by third party (perhaps, private companies) and then assembling of the aircraft in HAL facility. This way they can create a separate line for export LCAs.

No this can't be done. At least for now. HAL/ADA haven't been able to outsource the manufacturing of LCA LRU's even for the current production line. How will they do it for exports? Also, not all LRU's can be outsourced, and even if you outsource them, HAL being the integrator will still be a bottleneck.

This practice you are suggesting is not followed anywhere, the lead company LM/Boeing/Dassault, alone executes the export orders as well.
MOD has held only preliminary discussions on this. Lets see how it goes. The extreme option would be to deviate LCA from IAF to export nations. But that would result in even bigger shortfall in squadron strength temporarily.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Regardless, Export of Tejas is old news, In time their will be separated production line as hinted before.

@ersakthivel

 

[ersakthivel]

Probably he mean to say Range is 450Km.

Radius is 500 Km as per ADA- HAL release for IOC-2, range is 1000 km