ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Yumdoot]

Ok, now how many of you think that this SOP-18 is just a way to seek extra time for the MOD+ADA+HAL vs. IAF match.

1) All parties know that HAL has delivered zilch on much simpler IJT, so such extensive changes as MK-1A seem far fetched. If these were small changes then ADA would have made them already. Moreover all parties know that HAL has not delivered on its promised LCA-IOC either (not getting into the reasons).

2) All parties know that HAL has invested in this project such that it will eventually be able to make 16 odd LCA per annum of whatever type. To maintain inventory of say 120 LCA your production program must produce significantly more.

3) All parties know that there is no formal stop to the LCA Mk-2.

4) MOD knows that they can stone-wall IAF demands for imports for 'urgent' needs almost for ever (enough options available). While IAF knows that the only way they will get to import is when another UPA-3 type sarkar returns. MOD would like the most number of orders for an LCA like jet to flow to Indian entities (including HAL). IAF would like the most number of LCA like jets to be imported. So MOD needs to force HAL to keep quite till it delivers on 40 already ordered by which time SOP-18 would be history and a new assessment can be made. IAF knows that the last chance for burying LCA is in 2019 general elections if UPA type confusion returns.

My hunch, LCA Mk-1A will not come in, ever. LCA Mk-2 is very much on, with people sourced from Indian Navy essentially deciding what the IAF should eventually get in concert with MOD.

LCA Mk-3 perhaps may not happen except as a download of AMCA learnings into the LCA project. Longer term this could be like the way say F-16 and F-15 benefited from the R&D done for F-22 and F-35.

 

[smestarz]

With all things said, one should know what is the pros and cons,
IAFs actual involvement in developing LCA s you said Zilch
IAF trying to stonewall LCA .. 100%
Navy in a way is interested and sees itself now being stronger., In a way, Navy can challenge IAF a lot more for numbers. India is peninsula with water on 3 sides, and thus if Navy decides that it needs more maritime air bases like Goa etc to ensure protection of Maritime waters and not just Carrier based fleet, there is hardly anything that IAF can do, and rather Navy can buy MRCAs like IAF for fulfilling this role. Russian navy uses long range shore based planes for its maritime protection and uses planes like Su-24 , Mig-31 and Su-27.

IAF top brass is not interested in domestic planes, they are interested in foreign planes only because of perception of superiority. What the govt now is doing is to try and stop the whims of IAF. The next IAF chief will be very much pro-LCA and supporter of Indigenous products, Already the present IAF chief has changed his tune at least the tune about Rafale. We shall see more changes in that. With the VIP chopper scam and Pilatus scam involving senior IAF figures, IAF will try to keep low profile once again. with the fear ore it being looked at a corrupt defence arm and not patriotic one..

LCA Mk2 will be developed, but LCA Mk3 might be something like an autonomous plane, like a drone.

Ok, now how many of you think that this SOP-18 is just a way to seek extra time for the MOD+ADA+HAL vs. IAF match.

1) All parties know that HAL has delivered zilch on much simpler IJT, so such extensive changes as MK-1A seem far fetched. If these were small changes then ADA would have made them already. Moreover all parties know that HAL has not delivered on its promised LCA-IOC either (not getting into the reasons).

2) All parties know that HAL has invested in this project such that it will eventually be able to make 16 odd LCA per annum of whatever type. To maintain inventory of say 120 LCA your production program must produce significantly more.

3) All parties know that there is no formal stop to the LCA Mk-2.

4) MOD knows that they can stone-wall IAF demands for imports for 'urgent' needs almost for ever (enough options available). While IAF knows that the only way they will get to import is when another UPA-3 type sarkar returns. MOD would like the most number of orders for an LCA like jet to flow to Indian entities (including HAL). IAF would like the most number of LCA like jets to be imported. So MOD needs to force HAL to keep quite till it delivers on 40 already ordered by which time SOP-18 would be history and a new assessment can be made. IAF knows that the last chance for burying LCA is in 2019 general elections if UPA type confusion returns.

My hunch, LCA Mk-1A will not come in, ever. LCA Mk-2 is very much on, with people sourced from Indian Navy essentially deciding what the IAF should eventually get in concert with MOD.

LCA Mk-3 perhaps may not happen except as a download of AMCA learnings into the LCA project. Longer term this could be like the way say F-16 and F-15 benefited from the R&D done for F-22 and F-35.

 

[tejas warrior]

IAF all set for first Tejas Squadron formation

Read more at: http://www.oneindia.com/india/iaf-set-first-tejas-squadron-formation-2138469.html

 

[tejas warrior]

IAF all set for first Tejas Squadron formation

 

[tejas warrior]

#TejasSquadron Rear fuselage assembly work for SP-9 started at HAL https://t.co/Q3KmOZviZR @sonicshots007 @cyka_man https://t.co/k3lVosNt4Z

 

[tejas warrior]

Indian Air Force's inaugural LCA Tejas squadron all set to be commanded by Group Captain Madhav Rangachari. #GoTejas https://t.co/UxOfF6NEXX

 

[smestarz]

Squadron to be commanded by Group Captain?
What about Squadron leaders, or wing commanders ? Not available?

Indian Air Force's inaugural LCA Tejas squadron all set to be commanded by Group Captain Madhav Rangachari. #GoTejas https://t.co/UxOfF6NEXX

View attachment 9123

 

[tejas warrior]

IAF plans to put LCA Tejas in combat role by 2017

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force plans to put much-delayed Tejas in combat role by
next year after raising in July the first squadron of the indigenous Light Combat
Aircrat which it counts "superior" to Pakistan's JF 17 fighters.
State-run HAL will hand over the first two Tejas aircraft to IAF on July 1 which will
make up the 'Flying Daggers' 45, the name of the first squadron of the LCA which will
be based in Bangalore for the first two years before being moved to Sulur in Tamil
Nadu.
The idea is to have a total of six aircraft this financial year and about eight in the next.
Tejas will feature in combat plan of the IAF next year and will be deployed in forward
bases also, IAF sources said.
They asserted that Tejas, which still has at least 19, mostly related to maintenance and
easier operations, of the 43 deficiencies that the force had highlighted earlier, is "one of
the exceptional single-engine fighter aircraft in the world".
Asked how the aircraft fared in comparison to JF 17, jointly developed and built by
Pakistan and China, the IAF said it was "better".
"It is a better one since it is mostly made of composite which makes it light and very agile.
It also comes with smart ammunitions and bombs which help it to hit targets in a precise
manner," a source said.

Sources also said that Tejas will replace the MiG 21s and will be used for air-to-air fight
and ground attack and could also be a compliment to bigger fighter planes such as Su 30
MKI.
All squadrons of Tejas will be made up of 20 planes in total, including four in reserve. As
per the plan, while 20 would be inducted under the "Initial Operational Clearance",

The IAF plans to induct over 80 aircraft with better specifications known as Tejas 1A.
The upgraded version of Tejas, with Active Electrically Scanned Array Radar, Unified
Electronic Warfare Suite, mid-air refuelling capacity and advanced beyond the vision
range missiles, will cost between Rs 275 crore and Rs 300 crore.
While the idea to have an indigenous fighter aircraft was conceptualised in 1970s, the
actual work started only in the 80s and the first flight took place in January 2001.
The IAF sources said that Tejas is also equipped with helmet-mounted display and
fly-by-wire, a semi-automatic and computer-regulated system for controlling the flight of
an aircraft or spacecraft which makes it a 4.5 generation plane.
Meanwhile, sources said the LCA will not be flown by India's first women fighter pilots as
only experienced pilots will be flying them initially.
IAF sources stressed that beyond visual range missiles were a must for the Final
Operational Clearance version of Tejas.
They admitted that another requirement - mid air refuelling capability - is likely to happen
only in the Tejas I A version which they hoped will come out in 2019.
The sources maintained that Tejas will be a shot in the arm for the IAF which has seen its
strength dwindling because of phasing out of old planes.
The IAF currently flies with 33 squadrons as against the sanctioned strength of 42.
Tejas is designed to carry a veritable plethora of air-to-air, air-to-surface, precision guided
and standoff weaponry.
In the air-to-air arena, Tejas carries long-range beyond visual range weapons, with highly
agile high off-boresight missiles to tackle any close combat threat.
A wide variety of air-to-ground munitions and an extremely accurate navigation and attack
system allow it to prosecute surface targets over land or at sea with unparalleled
accuracy, giving Tejas a true multi/swing role capability.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-combat-role-by-2017/articleshow/52941653.cms

 

[suny6611]

Sir, if HAL fails to deliver on only production rate, make a new line by India private company OR force HAL to outsource most of the work.. Saab is a Bad Bad idea.
Tejas mk1 itself is good enough to be produced in large numbers.

hi

i have been offering to outsourcing the labour to assemble any of the a/c HAL wants to.
i have conformed report that labour is the cruses of all this problem but HAL is just not ready to take any help to speed up the deliveries.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

While formation of first squadron of LCA is good news but we must also be aware how HAL has fucked it up. The funds for setting up assembly line for 8 LCA was given in 2001 but HAL has not done so on one pretext or another and has constructed all the building only recently. The capacity of 8 LCA will be achieved only around 2018. The funds for first 20 LCA was given in 2006 and assembly of SP-2 started before 2009 and it took 6 years+ to complete one SP ie SP-2.

Now the grapevine is:-

SP-1 is not SP but LSP-6
SP-2 is the only SP produced by HAL in six/ten years.
SP-3 not flying yet
Trainer is also PV-6

Hence first squadron has only one SP LCA which will also remain at Bangalore for next couple of years. HAL seems to be intentionally trying to delay LCA and the only solution seems to be that we should invite pvt sector to manufacture LCA in collaboration with ADA.

 

[tejas warrior]

While formation of first squadron of LCA is good news but we must also be aware how HAL has fucked it up. The funds for setting up assembly line for 8 LCA was given in 2001 but HAL has not done so on one pretext or another and has constructed all the building only recently. The capacity of 8 LCA will be achieved only around 2018. The funds for first 20 LCA was given in 2006 and assembly of SP-2 started before 2009 and it took 6 years+ to complete one SP ie SP-2.

Now the grapevine is:-

SP-1 is not SP but LSP-6
SP-2 is the only SP produced by HAL in six/ten years.
SP-3 not flying yet
Trainer is also PV-6

Hence first squadron has only one SP LCA which will also remain at Bangalore for next couple of years. HAL seems to be intentionally trying to delay LCA and the only solution seems to be that we should invite pvt sector to manufacture LCA in collaboration with ADA.

Any confirmed source for this information ?

This do not looks correct information to me.. hope you are not following Reporters like Rajat Pandit n all..

SP-2 is the only SP produced by HAL in six/ten years.
>>> Why not you are mentioning it as 33 years.. It can be produced only after IOC and contract signed by IAF. And in general it always takes 3 years to start making fighter after contract is signed.

SP-3 not flying yet
>>> The SP-3 should now have its first flight sometime in July and SP-4 should fly out by September this year. Various stages of work for SP-5 to SP-9 have begun at HAL's LCA Division. The rear fuselage assembly work for SP-9 has also started.

Trainer is also PV-6
>>> Nope, Its PV-5.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do u remember upgrade cost of Mirage 2000.. it's only 2.4 billion $ for 50 ..

Do you REALLY know what is the level of this upgrade?
What is the support with this upgrade?
IAF mirage 2000 were among the first to be produce. After upgrade they are -mk2 levelled. A big step.

 

[tejas warrior]

Do you REALLY know what is the level of this upgrade?
What is the support with this upgrade?
IAF mirage 2000 were among the first to be produce. After upgrade they are -mk2 levelled. A big step.

2 billion was just for avionics/radar/structure overhaul.

So, with Mk2 level it will be better than Rafael.. right ? OR will have 5th generation specifications ?

It do not even have ASEA !!

* Engines were not part of upgrade.
* weapons Additional 1 billion.

 

[WolfPack86]

Two major programs being considered in that context include transfer of technology for the proposed Indian aircraft carrier and sharing of engine technology.
There are positive signs of an early conclusion on transfer of technology for the carrier, the MoD official said.
"The first phase of carrier cooperation has begun during Prime Minister Modi's visit to Washington,” said the official, requesting anonymity to discuss the program. “The information exchange agreement that was concluded will allow now for consulting contracts relating to carrier design. So, carrier cooperation is well on its way. I am hopeful that the project on jet engine technology cooperation will be concluded this summer.”
That would permit GE to both assemble the F414 engine in India while collaborating with Indian research and development institutions to design the upgraded variant with greater thrust for both the US Navy and the Indian Air Force," says Ashley Tellis, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/06/mod-sends-letter-of-request-lor-to-us.html

 

[BON PLAN]

2 billion was just for avionics/radar/structure overhaul.

So, with Mk2 level it will be better than Rafael.. right ? OR will have 5th generation specifications ?

It do not even have ASEA !!

* Engines were not part of upgrade.
* weapons Additional 1 billion.

In this case just ask Indian Government why they paid such an amount. They are not totally idiots.

 

[praneet.bajpaie]

What is the status of the indigenous engine? as well as engines for other aircraft and helicopters? (indigenous)

Do we have a dedicated thread for the same here at DFI?

 

[abingdonboy]

2 billion was just for avionics/radar/structure overhaul.

So, with Mk2 level it will be better than Rafael.. right ? OR will have 5th generation specifications ?

It do not even have ASEA !!

* Engines were not part of upgrade.
* weapons Additional 1 billion.

Ive heard this cribbing about the Mirage upgrade cost for a long long time now but only from those who have NO idea what the upgrade actually entails and the extent of the upgrade. For the IAF mirage upgrade Dassualt have taken systems directly out of the Rafale and fitted them to the 2000-5 MK2s, the IAF's upgraded mirages will thus be able to operate woth total data fusion and thus will be the perfect compliment to the IAF's Rafales.



In short, the IAF has turned their ageing fighters into some of the best platforms in the region at a very competitive price.

 

[bose]

Ive heard this cribbing about the Mirage upgrade cost for a long long time now but only from those who have NO idea what the upgrade actually entails and the extent of the upgrade. For the IAF mirage upgrade Dassualt have taken systems directly out of the Rafale and fitted them to the 2000-5 MK2s, the IAF's upgraded mirages will thus be able to operate woth total data fusion and thus will be the perfect compliment to the IAF's Rafales.



In short, the IAF has turned their ageing fighters into some of the best platforms in the region at a very competitive price.

I get your point, what about the airframe will it able to carry for another 15 years ?

 

[tejas warrior]

Ive heard this cribbing about the Mirage upgrade cost for a long long time now but only from those who have NO idea what the upgrade actually entails and the extent of the upgrade. For the IAF mirage upgrade Dassualt have taken systems directly out of the Rafale and fitted them to the 2000-5 MK2s, the IAF's upgraded mirages will thus be able to operate woth total data fusion and thus will be the perfect compliment to the IAF's Rafales.



In short, the IAF has turned their ageing fighters into some of the best platforms in the region at a very competitive price.

Okay, Can they fight on their own OR now need to be protected by MKIs ? Last time, it was 29s provided them cover from 16s.

Question is only if these updates are worth $ 2 Billion.

 

[WolfPack86]

HAL Tejas To Guard India-Pakistan Border From Next Year : IAF