ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel

Thanks for that old pic. Have been searching for it since school days. can you provide the link.

Also about Kalmadi you have not yet read enough:
Wiki:


Seems like you don't track people.

About Arunachalam I think he was more of a theoretical person who wanted to work on what he considered 'advanced/cutting edge' ideas. He was good as a metallurgist and did work on Mil grade Steels but he was not mentally ready for seeing the product to fruition. Quite unlike say Kalam sahab.

Unfortunately that attitude stuck in the GoI circles. Today the whole system thinks of Indigenous as some kind of negotiating tactic instead of making a goddamned product. Result today is that we have T-6 Denel gun somewhere but we are today going to be blessed by the all knowing IA gernali with the K-9 gun.

You heard about the Renuka Chaudhary right who enabled this denouement for the SPGH. Another daughter of a certain Wing Commander S N Chowdary. Here are a few news reports about her:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...fficers-against-Denel/articleshow/1397272.cms

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/....2-cr-to-congress-leader-renuka/1/138779.html


www.newindianexpress.com/states/telangana/Case-Against-Renuka’s-Husband/2015/03/27/article2732610.ece

Squadron leader of a combat squadron or transport aircrafts?

When Kalmadi's leadr ,Rajiv gandhi Pm of india, who oversaw the missile and nuclear secrets of India had an italian wife, What is the purpose of hounding Valluri and raj mahindra out of LCA program for the british wife of Raj mhindra?

And how can a person claiming mental disorder for bail speak on parliamentary defence committee?

 

[ersakthivel]

Livefist ‏@livefist 40m40 minutes ago
Work has begun on India's 5th gen AMCA. 15 year schedule planned: IAF chief Arup Raha

Livefist ‏@livefist 33m33 minutes ago
Ready to induct 120 LCA Mk1 on 2 conditions: higher production rate & proof/demo of radar/missiles/IFR: IAF chief Arup Raha

So now we are hearing more news on tejas mk1 A.It seems IAF to is confirming the news.

SO DM Parrikar is taking the commonsense approach which was hit for a six in bribe mongering UPA years.

Suddenly all the ills of tejas have vanished.

I always said a 100 tejas mk1s is never going to hurt the IAF fighting strength given the sudden retirement of many legacy fighters.

Tejas was designed to address the gap. But a very well co ordinated effort with DDM anal-ysts playing a big part mad fun of tejas's present capabilities to paint as if the budget blowing 20 billion plus rafale is the only option.

Now with the MMRCA circus over and all the real obstacles on even the 36 rafales staring in its face IAF is taking a commonsense approach on tejas mk1 with the new govt firmly displaying its no nonsense intent.

Ajai shukla article doesn't mentions anything about weight reduction. With or without weight reduction tejas mk1A with external Ew suit is the only viable option for IAf to reach the 45 sqd mark in the near future.

By just giving 40 tejas mk1 order IAF has driven HAL nuts over production line cost viability. Now this chicken-egg situation is coming to an end.

Whatever weight reduced in landing gear will lead to better performance. Even if there is no wieght reduction a 100 tejas is more than equal to 300 mig-21s , in operational sense considering their true multi role potential, better reliability, and easy upgradability.

It can fire 100 Km plus Astra mk2(present mk1 has 80 Km)and long range stand off LGBs like any true 4.5th gen fighter , which the mig-21 definitely cant. Even though the present radar on its nose is supposed to be performing with a tracking range of 65 Km for 5 sq meter target(jha says that quartz radome will increase its range by 15 percent) future better 2052 radars or decent sized ASEA radars can be placed in it replacin its current radar in MLU once the option is available.Reason being the much bigger 750 mm dia radome base dimension which is way higher than that of even rafale.

If painted by enemy radar and in danger, the dropping of all external stores will reduce its RCS to less than 0.3 sq meter which will greatly boost its survivability.

ANd it can take off with far higher loads from himalayn fields like Leh owing to the combo of fabulously low wing loading and high TWR.

All the above are not possible with the 300 mig-21s.

tejas mk1, mk1A are more versatile fighters which when teamed up with mig-29s and su-30 MKIs will give a stunning power projection capability for the border wars which indian army may fight in the future.

Now it is time to concentrate on tejas mk2 and AMCA.

 

[A chauhan]

Actually MMRCA failure has again proved that we were right when opting to develop LCA, the problems we are facing even with the 36 Rafales reasserts the same. I think it's good for us to buy Tejas MK1 A as it has many benefits:-

1. Operating cost + maintenance cost would be less since it's indigenous.
2. It can hold the falling no. of squadrons quickly with less cost.
3. It will further promote the indigenous development.
4. It will lower our dependence on foreign fighter jets.
5. It's a lesson and a slap on the face of Indian govt that they didn't fund enough money on Tejas, which they should have.
6. It's way better than MIG21 on almost all the features...

 

[ersakthivel]

Actually MMRCA failure has again proved that we were right when opting to develop LCA, the problems we are facing even with the 36 Rafales reasserts the same. I think it's good for us to buy Tejas MK1 A as it has many benefits:-

1. Operating cost + maintenance cost would be less since it's indigenous.
2. It can hold the falling no. of squadrons quickly with less cost.
3. It will further promote the indigenous development.
4. It will lower our dependence on foreign fighter jets.
5. It's a lesson and a slap on the face of Indian govt that they didn't fund enough money on Tejas, which they should have.
6. It's way better than MIG21 on almost all the features...

Not only that it will have huge export prospects if numbers like 300 plus are fielded. It is already far more mature than many IAF fighters when they entered service.
I trust this govt to unlock the platform's potential and get a private sector participation for another production line to truly start the make in india project.
Once numbers are guaranteed pvt sector firms can pull in needed experts and money into the project.
What is the single most important benefit is it will establish a fully indigenous fighter industry that will help us to deliver on projects like AMCA faster.

 

[rohit b3]

Finally Victory! Haha (Hope the Arjun goes the same way)
Anyways, lets not compare Tejas with Mig21.
Reducing Tejas's weight is necessary and is being done, thats an awesome news. And with the other features..like AESA radar and some more advanced systems, its now definitely entering the 4.5th gen category.
Raha's concerns are also valid. Increasing the productivity is a must!!

 

[tharun]

Finally Victory! Haha (Hope the Arjun goes the same way)
Anyways, lets not compare Tejas with Mig21.
Reducing Tejas's weight is necessary and is being done, thats an awesome news. And with the other features..like AESA radar and some more advanced systems, its now definitely entering the 4.5th gen category.
Raha's concerns are also valid. Increasing the productivity is a must!!

But Mig-21 has more range than Tejas

 

[rohit b3]

But Mig-21 has more range than Tejas

Mig21's range is 1200 kms , Tejas's is 1700 kms. However when there's a generation leap, its cause of the overall technology. We do not compare individual specs
For instance, Arjun mk1 has a Top speed of 72 kmph. Arjun mk2's Top speed is only 60 kmph. Does that make Arjun mk1 better than Arjun mk2?

 

[kstriya]

Mig21's range is 1200 kms , Tejas's is 1700 kms. However when there's a generation leap, its cause of the overall technology. We do not compare individual specs
For instance, Arjun mk1 has a Top speed of 72 kmph. Arjun mk2's Top speed is only 60 kmph. Does that make Arjun mk1 better than Arjun mk2?

Tejas range is sufficient to protect our airspace and deep strike in porkiland for china it can be game changer as it is designed for high altitude warfare where the air is too thin which has a adverse effects on the fighter performance. With what china has in its inventory now the Tejas might dominate the Tibetan plateau with support from awacs once the SAM's are taken care of.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Raha's concerns are also valid. Increasing the productivity is a must!!

raha is stupid

how can talk of production rate without sufficient orders being placed ?

 

[SajeevJino]

raha is stupid

how can talk of production rate without sufficient orders being placed ?

I know ..you mister genius .. Stop talking against my IAF Boss

 

[Yumdoot]

Livefist ‏@livefist 33m33 minutes ago
Ready to induct 120 LCA Mk1 on 2 conditions: higher production rate & proof/demo of radar/missiles/IFR: IAF chief Arup Raha

Actually this is why I don't believe in IAF leadership. Not even a chawanni invested but demands are like some Landowning Wadhera in Pakistan.

And you are right - Suddenly all the ills of tejas have vanished.

Why? Because somebody is breathing down their neck.

I always said a 100 tejas mk1s is never going to hurt the IAF fighting strength given the sudden retirement of many legacy fighters.

You have basically agreed to meet the IAF leadership at half way point. The reality as I see it being different. IAF should induct at least 200 of the Mk-1. Upgrade all in 3 or 4 tranches in various manners to varying Mk-1 A/B/C types.

Then also take in 200 Mk-2 of only one kind, multi-role.

100 tejas is more than equal to 300 mig-21s

Actually I again think you are trying to compromise with IAF leadership. Look at it like this. Broadly the Mig-21 is incapable of doing combat from say Leh. Not without some RATO assist. Nothing serious can be achieved with Mig-21. The wing is too small, the engine is too weak, the weapons are too sparce, the metal is too shiny, the radar/radome combo is too limited. Only slightly better situation in in Rajasthan. I think I have seen IAF use RATO bottles in hot conditions on their Mig21s. Certainly on the earlier Su-7s. On top of that the stable Mig-21 has highest landing/take off speeds plane that is too risky in the Himalayan forward bases and the new ALGs expected to be coming in. It would be criminal to fly Mig21 from any point above Srinagar/Awantipur.

Perhaps realising this and being the generally defensive kinds, the IAF leadership today have stationed Su-30MKI at the high places like Leh and Thoise. Mig-21s have flown nearly forever from lower altitudes of Srinagar/Awantipur etc. Mig-21 was stationed in Leh at the time we did not have the Su-30MKI. But that was a damned Majboori.

Obviously Su-30MKI should not ideally have been stationed right on the frontline. That is a stupid decision to take. Born more out of majboori than any real military thought. If you doubt me then you can look at where the other side is stationing their Sukhoi sized aircrafts. That should give you some ideas. Anyhow today the situation is that we have several ALGs all of which will on an average be >12000 ft. All of these ALGs will in time be given 3000 meter plus strips. If you persist with such expensive and risky basing options then would you be ready for having Su30MKIs on these ALGs also. Then what good is the LCA/Jag/Mig27 for. Surely these cannot then be based effectively at bases in the rear.

Now despite this above limitation, try to account for the basing that the other side is presenting to you. Sukhoi 27 variants and J-10 based at all their major airbases in TAR. And their bases are like 4000 meter runways at 12000 ft plus. At that much take off roll even the higher wing loaded J-10s actually are able to take quite a bit of load. Check the high resolution pictures on this link and read the whole write-up at least 4 times and then see if I am wrong.
trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/03/taking-stock-of-chinas-airpower-build.html
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/03/taking-stock-of-chinas-airpower-build.html


Then check this out.

Table 4: Air distances between Indian and Chinese airfields [Source: Google Earth]
Airfields to Airfield Distances
Srinagar to Kashgar 625 Km
Srinagar to Khotan 572 km
Leh to Kashgar 615 km
Leh to Khotan 384 Km
Leh to Shiquanhe 324 km
Ambala to Shiquanhe 363 Km
Hashimara to Shigatse 293 km
Hashimara to Gonggar 324 km
Tezpur to Nyngchi 324 Km
Chabua to Nyngchi 217 Km
Chabua to Golmud 991 Km
Chabua to Jeykundo 624 Km
Chabua to Bangda 393 Km

All within the 300 km to 600 km band that can be addressed most effectively by LCA Mk-1 in the most inexpensive manner. Either you agree that the ALGs or Leh or Thoise are going to be used in war or you agree that they are not. If you agree to war from these ~10000 ft strips then why would you want to not use the best aircraft capable of doing that with the most risk free operation possible.

With Su30MKI you don't even have to go into TAR to engage PLAAF. You can engage right from inside Indian airspace using Brahmos. If Su30MKI is the primary platform then why modify only 40. How will that be any good against PLAAF when you will have to spread these 40, thin over the entire border? Perhaps you notice that the border is concave for us and convex for the Chinese, in TAR. They can address much longer distances applying pressure at widely spaced points unlike us. You can chose to threaten Shichuan and Kunming areas but then that would imply that you are fighting a war independent of the Indian Army .

Now if you see how much difference an LCA at a forward base makes. You can chose to compare with Mig-21 but that is like comparing a wolf with a dog merely because they look alike and have like sizes. That does not work.

The right comparison cost-for-cost, risk-for-risk, bang-for-bang, kilometer-for-kilometer has to be with Su-30MKI which will now be spared the grunt work and can do some really important work in all theaters even if they fly it into the war zone from Bareilly or Hindon or Ambala, or Bagdogra or Purnia or Gorakhpur. To put it simply you are not tied up with Su30MKI unlike LCA which needs forward basing to attack and attack persistently and irritatingly. Su30MKI is the Sachin Tendulkar of military aviation. We have to use it wisely instead of asking it to score all 300 runs.

You do not compare options where one choice is an invalid choice. This one to one aircraft choice is in any case a fake choice. This kind of choice is for the MoD to hand out to fanboys so they do not keep biting at his heels - big plane can do the job of small plane but not vice-versa . Parrikar spun a doosra when he said that and got away with it only because the NDA-2 is new and deserves a longer rope.

You do comparison where taking one set of choices against another set of choices, will give a quantum leap to your overall position or if the choice is wrong will saddle you with an inexcusable position.

Now imagine what the hell would the PLAAF be able to stop if there are 400+ LCA with 200+ upgraded Jags and Mig27s and Mirages and Mig29s, attacking their land forces or airbases, thrice a day from 3 different directions. With the real bad boy waiting in the wings in the rear making occasional, high risk difficult to reach targets

 

[kstriya]

Actually this is why I don't believe in IAF leadership. Not even a chawanni invested but demands are like some Landowning Wadhera in Pakistan.

And you are right - Suddenly all the ills of tejas have vanished.

Why? Because somebody is breathing down their neck.




You have basically agreed to meet the IAF leadership at half way point. The reality as I see it being different. IAF should induct at least 200 of the Mk-1. Upgrade all in 3 or 4 tranches in various manners to varying Mk-1 A/B/C types.

Then also take in 200 Mk-2 of only one kind, multi-role.




Actually I again think you are trying to compromise with IAF leadership. Look at it like this. Broadly the Mig-21 is incapable of doing combat from say Leh. Not without some RATO assist. Nothing serious can be achieved with Mig-21. The wing is too small, the engine is too weak, the weapons are too sparce, the metal is too shiny, the radar/radome combo is too limited. Only slightly better situation in in Rajasthan. I think I have seen IAF use RATO bottles in hot conditions on their Mig21s. Certainly on the earlier Su-7s. On top of that the stable Mig-21 has highest landing/take off speeds plane that is too risky in the Himalayan forward bases and the new ALGs expected to be coming in. It would be criminal to fly Mig21 from any point above Srinagar/Awantipur.

Perhaps realising this and being the generally defensive kinds, the IAF leadership today have stationed Su-30MKI at the high places like Leh and Thoise. Mig-21s have flown nearly forever from lower altitudes of Srinagar/Awantipur etc. Mig-21 was stationed in Leh at the time we did not have the Su-30MKI. But that was a damned Majboori.

Obviously Su-30MKI should not ideally have been stationed right on the frontline. That is a stupid decision to take. Born more out of majboori than any real military thought. If you doubt me then you can look at where the other side is stationing their Sukhoi sized aircrafts. That should give you some ideas. Anyhow today the situation is that we have several ALGs all of which will on an average be >12000 ft. All of these ALGs will in time be given 3000 meter plus strips. If you persist with such expensive and risky basing options then would you be ready for having Su30MKIs on these ALGs also. Then what good is the LCA/Jag/Mig27 for. Surely these cannot then be based effectively at bases in the rear.

Now despite this above limitation, try to account for the basing that the other side is presenting to you. Sukhoi 27 variants and J-10 based at all their major airbases in TAR. And their bases are like 4000 meter runways at 12000 ft plus. At that much take off roll even the higher wing loaded J-10s actually are able to take quite a bit of load. Check the high resolution pictures on this link and read the whole write-up at least 4 times and then see if I am wrong.
trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/03/taking-stock-of-chinas-airpower-build.html
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/03/taking-stock-of-chinas-airpower-build.html


Then check this out.


All within the 300 km to 600 km band that can be addressed most effectively by LCA Mk-1 in the most inexpensive manner. Either you agree that the ALGs or Leh or Thoise are going to be used in war or you agree that they are not. If you agree to war from these ~10000 ft strips then why would you want to not use the best aircraft capable of doing that with the most risk free operation possible.

With Su30MKI you don't even have to go into TAR to engage PLAAF. You can engage right from inside Indian airspace using Brahmos. If Su30MKI is the primary platform then why modify only 40. How will that be any good against PLAAF when you will have to spread these 40, thin over the entire border? Perhaps you notice that the border is concave for us and convex for the Chinese, in TAR. They can address much longer distances applying pressure at widely spaced points unlike us. You can chose to threaten Shichuan and Kunming areas but then that would imply that you are fighting a war independent of the Indian Army .

Now if you see how much difference an LCA at a forward base makes. You can chose to compare with Mig-21 but that is like comparing a wolf with a dog merely because they look alike and have like sizes. That does not work.

The right comparison cost-for-cost, risk-for-risk, bang-for-bang, kilometer-for-kilometer has to be with Su-30MKI which will now be spared the grunt work and can do some really important work in all theaters even if they fly it into the war zone from Bareilly or Hindon or Ambala, or Bagdogra or Purnia or Gorakhpur. To put it simply you are not tied up with Su30MKI unlike LCA which needs forward basing to attack and attack persistently and irritatingly. Su30MKI is the Sachin Tendulkar of military aviation. We have to use it wisely instead of asking it to score all 300 runs.

You do not compare options where one choice is an invalid choice. This one to one aircraft choice is in any case a fake choice. This kind of choice is for the MoD to hand out to fanboys so they do not keep biting at his heels - big plane can do the job of small plane but not vice-versa . Parrikar spun a doosra when he said that and got away with it only because the NDA-2 is new and deserves a longer rope.

You do comparison where taking one set of choices against another set of choices, will give a quantum leap to your overall position or if the choice is wrong will saddle you with an inexcusable position.

Now imagine what the hell would the PLAAF be able to stop if there are 400+ LCA with 200+ upgraded Jags and Mig27s and Mirages and Mig29s, attacking their land forces or airbases, thrice a day from 3 different directions. With the real bad boy waiting in the wings in the rear making occasional, high risk difficult to reach targets

At the cost of each Rafael we can get 3 Tejas mk1 (price of mk1a/p not yet disclosed but should be same or less due to quantity ordered) as Rafael order is reduced by 90 birds we have money for 270 Tejas available now another 130 should not be difficult for GOI as its an indigenous bird. money gets back into the economy. Only if we had the Kaveri engine it would have been a bonanza for all stakeholders.

 

[miads]

Well done!!!! IAF should proceed acquiring Tejas MK1A. Even if may not give the best performance aircraft yet and domestic industry will get experience with production volume increasing. Then any experience gain from MK1A will enhance induction of MK2 (I think). Anyway, experience will cost a ton of million of dollar but worth it.

 

[pramsin]

What about engine where will engine come from GE 404 line is closed, Kaveri does not have enough power. So this is a suspense. Russian engine, European engine, improved Kaveri, or American engine?

 

[ersakthivel]

Ha, Ha, Ha,,,,,,,:bounce:

The TOI let pandit had a few bottles of rums with his editor last night and ordered the GOI to cancell tejas mk2, the most powerful version of tejas with all the goodies!!!

So the import lobby is still hard at work trying to cancell the most useful part of tejas mk2 and its DDM wing is in advance deployment mode here.

From now on they will chant , since we buy 120 tejas mk1 , we should cancel tejas mk2 for IAF and go for their paymaster's Rafale, a 4.5th gen plane at 5th gen price!!!

So from now on the standard operating procedure for DDM folks is , since we have ordered 120 IAF tejas mk1 , we dont need the most potent IAF tejas mk2,restrict it for the navy and go for 100 plus rafale. We can see unending newspaper articles in future on these lines.

The French are not going to relent on price , TOT fronts, thats the reason MMRCA folded up, not because of GOI's inability to pay the bill. If at all GOI accepted a diluted 120 rafale deal which falls short of original RFP rules regarding price, TOT and guarantee, it would have thrown itself open to massive corruption charges and hauled over the coals by CAG.

Thats why the new DM while going for scrapping MMRCA has clearly said the Super sukhoi upgrades for SU-30 MKI is the plan B for MMRCA and tejas will make up the number shortfalls, a prudent practical decision by a IIT educated minister.

The import lobby journos havent recovered from that blow till date. All along tejas mk1 was dismissed as toy plane, now with this no nonsense govt finally knocking some sense into IAF top brass's wooden heads we are seeing 120 plus orders for tejas mk1 or mk1A itself.

If at all IAF was serious about depleting squadron strength they could have given this order of 120 tejas mk1s on IOC-2 itself, and could have made a promise of buying about 100 plus tejas mk2 afterwards,

All this BVR/IFR /Gun trials/FOC needed before further orders is a hogwash. All fighters developed in this world have completed them in their later development stage, IAF bought 40 su-30 in a config
far from su-30 MKI and when it bought mirage-2000 first it had no missiles at all. Later everything came on board, we are paying russians even before seeing FGFA in reality.

But when it came to Tejas a different tune was sung by IAF whicch delayed developments till date.

This could have kindled private sector interest in the past 18 months and with the proactive make in india policy of this new govt we could have seen moves towards setting up an new production line for tejas , with all the vendors of tejas program nurtured till now by HAL and ADA finishing setting up of enlarged capacities for tejas mk1.

Because of the we need only rafale no more super sukhoi-30s no three legged cheetah tejas mk1 stand of IAF we have wasted two years in not setting up any extra production facility of tejas , which could have resulted in more number of tejas produced every yer from 2016 onwards.

Even now with naval tejas mk2 orders if GOI clearly states that the production of all tejas variants will be nothing less than 400 , moves towards a second pvt sector production can begin,

It is only with the aim of stalling such initiatives the "Tejas mk2 is scrapped" cat is now being let out of the bag by import lobby,

 

[pmaitra]

Despite Flaws, India to Induct Tejas Mark 1-A Fighter Aircraft


New Delhi: The government has decided to induct at least seven squadrons of the made-in-India Tejas Mark 1-A Light Combat Aircraft or LCA into the Indian Air Force, to make up for a shortage of fighters.

The Tejas Mark 1-A is slightly more proficient than the first-cut home-made LCA, the Tejas, but the aircraft still has some flaws. For one, there are doubts about its ability to carry the required payload of weapons. Also, its Indian-made radar needs to be replaced with an Israeli radar.

The IAF has agreed to induct the Tejas Mark 1-A as it urgently needs more than 120 lightweight fighters to be used for air defence and to intercept enemy aircraft. A squadron has about 16 to 18 aircraft each.

It had earlier agreed to induct 40 Tejas', an aircraft that India's national auditor CAG said had severe flaws with "shortfalls in meeting the engine thrust and other parameters such as weight of the aircraft, fuel capacity, pilot protection from front against 7.62 mm bullets."

The IAF agreed to induct the flawed aircraft to keep the Tejas program alive.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and defence public sector unit Hindustan Aeronautics Limited or HAL, who are manufacturing the LCA have promised a more agile Mark 1-A.

The Tejas Mark 1-A is slightly more proficient than the first-cut home-made LCA, the Tejas

Sources, told NDTV that changes will be made in the ballast and the landing gear making the Tejas Mark 1-A about 1000 kg lighter than its 6500-kg predecessor. Delivery can begin next year.

Defence Ministry sources told NDTV that "the IAF needs to have a minimum number of aircraft at all times. Till the time the indigenously built Tejas Mark II is ready this is best option available."

The Tejas Mark 2, expected to address the flaws in the Mark 1-A, will not be ready for induction or series production before 2024-2025. The Air Force will find itself very short of fighters after it decommissions three squadrons of its MiG 21 and one MiG 27 squadron this year; it will lose the rest of its 10-odd squadrons of the vintage Russian-made MiGs by 2022.

The government is buying 32 Rafale fighters from France to be delivered in the next five years

So that we are not accused of plagiarizing, please add link or give credit unless you are the author of the content. This is required and not optional.

Link: http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/despite-flaws-india-to-induct-tejas-mark-1a-fighter-1224355

@pmaitra @sob Mods please merge to LCA tejas - IV thread.

Done. Thanks for notifying.

 

[ersakthivel]

The attitude of IAf top brass (all promoted during UPA regime) is very disappointing. They have let two valuable years pass by not giving a concrete commitment on tejas. The navay has inducted its aircraft carrier and a couple of destroyers without barak 8 air defence missile!!!

Once barak is finalized they will add it. Internal pumping lines for refuelling has been completed in tejas mk1, and pylons for BVR missiles were already added with requisite tech for launching them, So why wait till today for giving more orders?

Tejas mk1 without any weight reduction, ASEA, Internal EW suit is still far far superior to the 400 odd migs and jags that are on their edge of . And no one is asking IAf to fill their entire squadrons with tejas mk1s!!!

Just 120 mk1s ordered on IOC-2 ordered will fill up only 6 squadrons of the sanctioned 45 squadrons of IAF.
Even the USAF appreciated the performance of the oldr mig-21s when they were used in combo with Su-30 MKIs against USAF F-15s in redflag, tejas mk1 in IOC itself is far more superior to the mig-21s.

Now we have last two years with nil activity on ramping up tejas production front due to the dithering of IAF top brass. Only after seeing that rafale deal is not possible to clinch quickly.and after strong initiative from the new govt , IAF is now voicing its consent. If at ll they have been proactive we could have seen more activity on tejas production front now,

Through out tejas program IAF could have been more proactive and could have done better.They opposed tejas in 1984 and didnot make any financial commitment to the program, Their strong opposition about the viability of tejas led to dlayed GOI funding, that too after the intervention of Abdul Kalam.

They delayed setting up co ordination committee with ADA for tejas till 2006, which was mandated to be set up in 2001 itself, according to CAG report, After 2006 the IAF asked for close to 250 requests for actions which led to more delay in redesigning, the belated specification of R-73 in place of R-60 added few more years of delay in the wing redesign during the FSED phase-2, now not giving orders up front for 200 plus versions of tejas mk1 and mk2 in 2013 IOC-2 itself has held up the ramping up of manufacturing activities of tejas mk1,

 

[pmaitra]

Ha, Ha, Ha,,,,,,,:bounce:

The TOI let pandit had a few bottles of rums with his editor last night and ordered the GOI to cancell tejas mk2, the most powerful version of tejas with all the goodies!!!

So the import lobby is still hard at work trying to cancell the most useful part of tejas mk2 and its DDM wing is in advance deployment mode here.

From now on they will chant , since we buy 120 tejas mk1 , we should cancel tejas mk2 for IAF and go for their paymaster's Rafale, a 4.5th gen plane at 5th gen price!!!

So from now on the standard operating procedure for DDM folks is , since we have ordered 120 IAF tejas mk1 , we dont need the most potent IAF tejas mk2,restrict it for the navy and go for 100 plus rafale. We can see unending newspaper articles in future on these lines.

The French are not going to relent on price , TOT fronts, thats the reason MMRCA folded up, not because of GOI's inability to pay the bill. If at all GOI accepted a diluted 120 rafale deal which falls short of original RFP rules regarding price, TOT and guarantee, it would have thrown itself open to massive corruption charges and hauled over the coals by CAG.

Thats why the new DM while going for scrapping MMRCA has clearly said the Super sukhoi upgrades for SU-30 MKI is the plan B for MMRCA and tejas will make up the number shortfalls, a prudent practical decision by a IIT educated minister.

The import lobby journos havent recovered from that blow till date. All along tejas mk1 was dismissed as toy plane, now with this no nonsense govt finally knocking some sense into IAF top brass's wooden heads we are seeing 120 plus orders for tejas mk1 or mk1A itself.

If at all IAF was serious about depleting squadron strength they could have given this order of 120 tejas mk1s on IOC-2 itself, and could have made a promise of buying about 100 plus tejas mk2 afterwards,

All this BVR/IFR /Gun trials/FOC needed before further orders is a hogwash. All fighters developed in this world have completed them in their later development stage, IAF bought 40 su-30 in a config
far from su-30 MKI and when it bought mirage-2000 first it had no missiles at all. Later everything came on board, we are paying russians even before seeing FGFA in reality.

But when it came to Tejas a different tune was sung by IAF whicch delayed developments till date.

This could have kindled private sector interest in the past 18 months and with the proactive make in india policy of this new govt we could have seen moves towards setting up an new production line for tejas , with all the vendors of tejas program nurtured till now by HAL and ADA finishing setting up of enlarged capacities for tejas mk1.

Because of the we need only rafale no more super sukhoi-30s no three legged cheetah tejas mk1 stand of IAF we have wasted two years in not setting up any extra production facility of tejas , which could have resulted in more number of tejas produced every yer from 2016 onwards.

Even now with naval tejas mk2 orders if GOI clearly states that the production of all tejas variants will be nothing less than 400 , moves towards a second pvt sector production can begin,

It is only with the aim of stalling such initiatives the "Tejas mk2 is scrapped" cat is now being let out of the bag by import lobby,

• Sukhoi-30MKI potentially upgraded to Super Sukhoi: Good option.
• 120 LCA Mark-I: Very good decision. Flaws can be sorted out.
• Scrapping of LCA Mark-II: Is it true? If true, then it is disappointing.
• Rafale: Get them off the shelf and shelf the ToT plans. Not worth the time and effort.
• IIT educated Defence Minister: Well, Arvind Kejriwal is also IIT educated. Non sequitur.

 

[Illusive]

WTF?? MK2 is scrapped!!! If not then DFI should complaint to TOI about their shoddy reporting and ask for retraction.

 

[A chauhan]

Scrapping of LCA Mark-II: Is it true? If true, then it is disappointing.

Most probably it is fake, MK-II is necessary, killing MK-II is like killing the LCA project itself.

Rafale: Get them off the shelf and shelf the ToT plans. Not worth the time and effort.

Too costly ! 36 are enough for technology assimilation rest should be scrapped !

IIT educated Defence Minister: Well, Arvind Kejriwal is also IIT educated. Non sequitur.

Hi hi hi, jokes apart, Parrikar can deliver.

PS. formatting functions are not working properly !