ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[indiatester]

From what I heard LSP2 is already undergoing radar testing with new radome. But they are facing problems with new redesigned braking system.

Are you talking about SP2 or LSP2?

 

[myana]

Are you talking about SP2 or LSP2?

LSP-2(Limited Series Production)

 

[indiatester]

LSP-2(Limited Series Production)

Thanks.
I didn't get why they were testing a new braking system. Shouldn't these things be frozen by now?
The new radome was also for the Serial Production. Why have they integrated it with a LSP platform?

 

[myana]

Thanks.
I didn't get why they were testing a new braking system. Shouldn't these things be frozen by now?
The new radome was also for the Serial Production. Why have they integrated it with a LSP platform?

The new Cobham quartz radome delivered recently are being tested initially for stress & currently for radar functionings like scanning, tracking & locking. Composite radome built locally could not get enough range(40-50 Kms) so they went with quartz radome which is better dielectric so better transmission & reception of waves so better range(80+Kms).
IAF wanted improvement in stoppage distance & solve overheating by increasing the heat capacity by putting a better cooling mechanism for the brakes.(Not sure which was used now but it was redesigned and is being tested).

 

[3The Crossbow]

I had one doubt regarding the exports of LCA. Will HAL need the approval of United States before exporting the LCA since the engine is American?

They do need approval from usa but not for lca instead for the engine if we can develop our engine or integrate french engine then we will have to take french approval not american

anyhow let this bird prove its worth before selling . we do not wish another tall claims of hal resulting in ecuador dhruva scenario again. better to be our of market than creating bad image.

 

[ersakthivel]

Saurav jha has just tweeted that tejas mk1 design has finally been frozen and there will be no new additions , So the problems with radome and refuelling probe shouldn't delay FOC any more.

 

[ersakthivel]

They do need approval from usa but not for lca instead for the engine if we can develop our engine or integrate french engine then we will have to take french approval not american

anyhow let this bird prove its worth before selling . we do not wish another tall claims of hal resulting in ecuador dhruva scenario again. better to be our of market than creating bad image.

Most of the equador accidents of dhurv were due to pilot errors and now pilots are extensively being trained in india.

Also during the punishing Uttarkhand floods the dhurv performed without any problems with heavy sortie rates under punishing condition , which further exposes the import lobby journos who thrashed dhurv for Equador pilot errors.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2013/07/proud-of-dhruv-in-flood-ops-hal.html

HAL Statement: HAL-produced helicopters – Dhruv, Cheetah/Chetak – played a leading role in the biggest ever helicopter based rescue operation of Indian defence forces in flood and rain-hit areas of Uttarakhand recently.

These copters deployed over flood and landslide affected areas in Uttarakhand performed effectively in dropping paratroopers, evacuating stranded people and in supply of food and medicines.

The helicopters made hundreds of sorties in the high risk zone overcoming strong winds, visibility and with virtually no space for landing on high terrains. HAL teams were positioned at Deharadun and Delhi to ensure logistic support for the rescue operations.

Dhruv which can carry 16 passengers was the star performer. On many occasions, due to incessant rain IAF pilots could only use Dhruv as it was unsafe for other copters to land. Dhruv helicopters flew for nearly 630 hours during the operation and Cheetah/Chetak flew 520 hours.

"The indigenous helicopters pressed into service by the Army and the Air Force in flood-hit areas have proved their mettle in carrying out rescue and relief operations in highly inaccessible areas. We are proud of it", says Dr. R.K. Tyagi, Chairman, HAL.

HAL designed, developed and produced Dhruv helicopters have been delivered to the Indian Army, Air Force, Navy and the Coast Guard. They are also exported. The civil version of Dhruv has been certified by the DGCA and delivered to ONGC, Govt of Jharkand and the BSF.

The advanced technology features incorporated in the design of Dhruv include hingeless main rotor and bearingless tail rotor; integrated dynamic system encompassing main gear box and upper controls in a single housing; higher powered Shakti engines; integrated architecture display system (glass cockpit); duplex automatic flight control system; redundancy with twin engine, dual hydraulics and controls; 30 min dry running capability of gear boxes; crashworthy bottom structure, landing gear, crew seat and fuel tanks with self-sealing capability; extensive use of composite material on fuselage and rotor system; integration of role and optional equipments such as rescue hoist, stretchers and cargo-hook.

Dhurv also has advanced avionics (communication, navigation & surveillance), electrical mission systems. All this makes Dhruv, a versatile multi-mission, multi-role helicopter capable of operating in all-weather and extreme climate conditions ensuring high degree of reliability and survivability.

Based on the expertise of Dhruv, HAL undertook the Design & Development of Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).
=============================================================================
With Saurav jha tweeting that Tejas mk1 design is finally frozen after one of the most extensive and punishing flight testing spread over a decade with more than 2000 zero emergency , completely safe , test flights leading to design freeze tejas has nothing left to prove.

In fact with the proposed 1 ton weight reduction plan tejas mk1 will only get more deadly fom now on. Even the 6.5 ton tejas mk1 that are now being produced noow can easily be upgraded to 5.5 ton tejas mk1 A later because weight reduction involves mainly redesigned landing gear and removal of ballast, so no fictional criticism is going to stop tejas or dhurv(whose attack version LCH is the only helo in the world capable of operating with meaningful loads in the all crucial himalayan Siachen glacier. )

 

[ersakthivel]

The new Cobham quartz radome delivered recently are being tested initially for stress & currently for radar functionings like scanning, tracking & locking. Composite radome built locally could not get enough range(40-50 Kms) so they went with quartz radome which is better dielectric so better transmission & reception of waves so better range(80+Kms).
IAF wanted improvement in stoppage distance & solve overheating by increasing the heat capacity by putting a better cooling mechanism for the brakes.(Not sure which was used now but it was redesigned and is being tested).

Thanks.
I didn't get why they were testing a new braking system. Shouldn't these things be frozen by now?
The new radome was also for the Serial Production. Why have they integrated it with a LSP platform?

break issues were all resolved by IOC-2 itself which led to demonstrating quicker turn around time and multi sortie demonstration. refer to govt press release.

 

[ersakthivel]

Actually,
The following are the components of the Su-30MKI developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Also the all important stores management software and brahmos integration with Su-30 MKI is completely indian.

And much of Su-30 Mk's airframe is now being made with tejas composite tech which will lead to significant weight reduction resulting in better agility, lower RCS and longer range as well.

 

[ersakthivel]

Who is facing problem HAL or ADA ??

nobody is facing any problem , Saurav jha has just tweeted that all design elements of tejas mk1 are completely frozen just now.

 

[myana]

@ersakthivel Ada has modified the braking system and testing of the same is underway. The IOC2 braking system will not be the same as the Braking system which is been under testing now.

 

[Shaitan]

HAL is opening the way for private firms to produce large sections of the LCA .

It is working on a process to rope in eight to 12 large industry partners as tier-1 or tier-2 suppliers of bigger ‘modules’ or structures, according to HAL Chairman and Managing Director T. Suvarna Raju. H

“We are trying to get [certain] modules of the LCA prepared by the private industry. We have given RFIs [the first step of request for information] to those who are interested in being a defence vendor. An RFQ [request for quotation] will follow.

“We have interacted with a few on the fuselage, which gets done in four parts — the front, centre, rear and the wings. We have the jigs and fixtures for them to make, to begin with. They can make on their own later,” Mr. Raju said. The helicopter gear box with its many components was another example.

Mr. Raju said this was its new approach of producing the LCA.

 

[ersakthivel]

http://www.tejas.gov.in/ADA-Tejas Brochure-2015.pdf


• Successfully completed more than 2871 flights.

• Sensor evaluation of MMR, Litening POD, HMDS, RWR, TACAN, IFF, VOR-ILS successfully completed.

• Spool down engine relight successfully demonstrated

. • Envelope expansion upto 24˚ AOA completed.

• Chaff & Flare dispensation integrated with RWR successfully completed.

• Operational Readiness Platform scramble readiness demonstrated.

• Fuel System, Brake Management System and General Systems performance demonstrated.

• Production Equipment Standard of Preparation & Drawing Applicability Lists (SOP/DAL) released.

• The First LCA Navy Prototype has completed its maiden Ski-Jump launch at Goa in Dec 2014

• Air superiority missions with R73E CCM guided by MMR/ HMDS successfully demonstrated.

• Operational Air Support Missions with 1200/800 Ltr Drop tank & 1000 lb bombs in CCRP/CCIP modes completed.

• Laser guided missions with Litening POD demonstrated for IOC envelope.

• Multi role capability demonstration during IRON FIST by simultaneous release of Laser guided bomb, Chaff & Flare dispensation and R73E missile within a span of 100 secs.

• Night Flying.

• Wake Penetration



"Tejas is an aerodynamically unstable tailless compound delta-wing configuration, optimized primarily for maneuverability and agility. Designed to meet the tactical requirements of a modern air force, Tejas is a multi-role aircraft capable of comprehensive air superiority and air defense roles. The aerodynamic design is a culmination of an intense design process involving extensive Computational Fluid Dynamics and Wind Tunnel studies.

Specific aerodynamic features provide excellent aircraft performance in a wider flight envelope:

Highly optimized wing, with appropriate variation of thickness, camber and twist along the span.

• Cross-sectional area distribution along the length, adjusted for good high speed characteristics

• Leading Edge slats, scheduled for favorable aerodynamic behavior •

Wing-shielded bifurcated air intake duct, with diverters, suitably matched with engine to avoid buzz and to minimize distortion throughout the flight envelope,

As a part of the aerodynamic design process, various wind tunnel models have been designed and fabricated for testing a wide range of aerodynamic aspects.

Computational methods have been extensively used for fuselage shape optimization, wing design, aerodynamic loads estimation in entire flight envelope, optimization of leading edge devices, performance evaluation of air intakes, configuration refinements, external stores release studies etc.

The design and analysis capabilities have grown exponentially and are being refined continuously to meet future operational requirements. An impressive flight test record of more than 2850 flawless flights, amounting to nearly 2000 flying hours, is a testimony to proven design of best in class tactical fighter.

Tejas flight testing is characterized by meticulous planning of test points, aerodynamic data validation and update through system identification techniques, evaluation of aircraft performance and update of performance model leading to a reliable aircraft operating data manual."

Tejas flight envelope for fighter version completed till 24 deg according to latest govt press release and trainer version has an AOA of 26 deg,

many important data for guys who want to know the real position of tejas after 2871 flights.

For trainer they are giving an AOA of 26 deg, The fighter version has already expanded envelope to 24 deg so Saurav jha is right.

 

[3The Crossbow]

Most of the equador accidents of dhurv were due to pilot errors and now pilots are extensively being trained in india.

Also during the punishing Uttarkhand floods the dhurv performed without any problems with heavy sortie rates under punishing condition , which further exposes the import lobby journos who thrashed dhurv for Equador pilot errors.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2013/07/proud-of-dhruv-in-flood-ops-hal.html

HAL Statement: HAL-produced helicopters – Dhruv, Cheetah/Chetak – played a leading role in the biggest ever helicopter based rescue operation of Indian defence forces in flood and rain-hit areas of Uttarakhand recently.

These copters deployed over flood and landslide affected areas in Uttarakhand performed effectively in dropping paratroopers, evacuating stranded people and in supply of food and medicines.

The helicopters made hundreds of sorties in the high risk zone overcoming strong winds, visibility and with virtually no space for landing on high terrains. HAL teams were positioned at Deharadun and Delhi to ensure logistic support for the rescue operations.

Dhruv which can carry 16 passengers was the star performer. On many occasions, due to incessant rain IAF pilots could only use Dhruv as it was unsafe for other copters to land. Dhruv helicopters flew for nearly 630 hours during the operation and Cheetah/Chetak flew 520 hours.

"The indigenous helicopters pressed into service by the Army and the Air Force in flood-hit areas have proved their mettle in carrying out rescue and relief operations in highly inaccessible areas. We are proud of it", says Dr. R.K. Tyagi, Chairman, HAL.

HAL designed, developed and produced Dhruv helicopters have been delivered to the Indian Army, Air Force, Navy and the Coast Guard. They are also exported. The civil version of Dhruv has been certified by the DGCA and delivered to ONGC, Govt of Jharkand and the BSF.

The advanced technology features incorporated in the design of Dhruv include hingeless main rotor and bearingless tail rotor; integrated dynamic system encompassing main gear box and upper controls in a single housing; higher powered Shakti engines; integrated architecture display system (glass cockpit); duplex automatic flight control system; redundancy with twin engine, dual hydraulics and controls; 30 min dry running capability of gear boxes; crashworthy bottom structure, landing gear, crew seat and fuel tanks with self-sealing capability; extensive use of composite material on fuselage and rotor system; integration of role and optional equipments such as rescue hoist, stretchers and cargo-hook.

Dhurv also has advanced avionics (communication, navigation & surveillance), electrical mission systems. All this makes Dhruv, a versatile multi-mission, multi-role helicopter capable of operating in all-weather and extreme climate conditions ensuring high degree of reliability and survivability.

Based on the expertise of Dhruv, HAL undertook the Design & Development of Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).
=============================================================================
With Saurav jha tweeting that Tejas mk1 design is finally frozen after one of the most extensive and punishing flight testing spread over a decade with more than 2000 zero emergency , completely safe , test flights leading to design freeze tejas has nothing left to prove.

In fact with the proposed 1 ton weight reduction plan tejas mk1 will only get more deadly fom now on. Even the 6.5 ton tejas mk1 that are now being produced noow can easily be upgraded to 5.5 ton tejas mk1 A later because weight reduction involves mainly redesigned landing gear and removal of ballast, so no fictional criticism is going to stop tejas or dhurv(whose attack version LCH is the only helo in the world capable of operating with meaningful loads in the all crucial himalayan Siachen glacier. )

Please read again how many dhruv crashed in India itself

All because of pilot error?

The bottom line is there are few flaws which are identified by IAF and need to be corrected. Dhruva performance in high altitudes area as in ecuador is in question for long. The Engine is not able to power the heli and will require a bit more power to improve its capability and mission range / operation.


Dhruva, its a good platform developed by HAL but at the same time they need to improve and learn from mistakes and keep improving. the production facility of HAL and its quality standard need to be improved too by taking some western help.

Having said that dhruva and lch will be the best outcome of indian aeronautics for long.

 

[ersakthivel]

Please read again how many dhruv crashed in India itself

All because of pilot error?

The bottom line is there are few flaws which are identified by IAF and need to be corrected. Dhruva performance in high altitudes area as in ecuador is in question for long. The Engine is not able to power the heli and will require a bit more power to improve its capability and mission range / operation.


Dhruva, its a good platform developed by HAL but at the same time they need to improve and learn from mistakes and keep improving. the production facility of HAL and its quality standard need to be improved too by taking some western help.

Having said that dhruva and lch will be the best outcome of indian aeronautics for long.

All fighters and helos have crashed, And then the fleet is grounded and inspections are carried out and if any design issue is there it is fixed,

SO far i haven't heard of such design issues on HAL and now the fleet is operating normally with LCH landing in Siachen,

All equadorian crashes (two) were due to pilot errors and even IAf officially admits almost 45 percent of crashes are due to human errors as is the norm in any airforce,

If dhurv engines were not adequetly powerful then how can it operate in high himalayan heights where other helos dont?

You are just mixing up the development of the new high power engine as a future upgrade , which is normal in any platform as inadequate power.

All platforms have teething troubles and need to be updated after a few years of operation, tejas , IJT, dhurv, LCH all will have a bright future, no exceptions because these are no ambitious wild card programs, all of them are designed within our technological limits after a detailed feasibility study.

 

[avknight1408]

I live in Coimbatore. Saw a Tejas jet today afternoon.

 

[Punya Pratap]

A

I live in Coimbatore. Saw a Tejas jet today afternoon.

And I request for more details

 

[avknight1408]

A


And I request for more details

Sulur air base is little close to where i stay. Saw the jet flying past from the window of my building.

 

[3The Crossbow]

All fighters and helos have crashed, And then the fleet is grounded and inspections are carried out and if any design issue is there it is fixed,

SO far i haven't heard of such design issues on HAL and now the fleet is operating normally with LCH landing in Siachen,

All equadorian crashes (two) were due to pilot errors and even IAf officially admits almost 45 percent of crashes are due to human errors as is the norm in any airforce,

Two? Just google and check how many crashed so far and why they are not buying Dhruva anymore.

If dhurv engines were not adequetly powerful then how can it operate in high himalayan heights where other helos dont?

You are just mixing up the development of the new high power engine as a future upgrade , which is normal in any platform as inadequate power.

I am not mixing but if you stop mixing everything with some conspiracy against indigenous product you will know. ALH/Dhruva was inducted despite IAF cited many problems and design changes after dozens of accidents. there is still problem with its IDS not yet resolved completely HAL is working on it. The engine upgrade is required as suggested by IAF as the chopper is quite heavy and needs more power to fly in high altitude. You will use what you have just check why india ordered russian choppers when initially they asked russia to buy dhruva to reciprocate now they have no other choice than to buy russian choppers.

All platforms have teething troubles and need to be updated after a few years of operation, tejas , IJT, dhurv, LCH all will have a bright future, no exceptions because these are no ambitious wild card programs, all of them are designed within our technological limits after a detailed feasibility study.

I agree but the problem is pretty basic and that is flying Dhruva is risky. This is the least one expects.

On the contrary Tejas has a very decent flying record with no crash so far and if hal do its job nicely i think it will remain so. IJT Sitara is a flawed design which even HAL has accepted and want foreign help to improve it. this means it will coms around/after 2018- 2020 only if you can see that too. so a good decision by iaf will be to buy different jet or perhaps use pilatus for the second stage training too as they are capable of fulfilling the need of lessons in iaf second stage flying.

A positive criticism should always be there to keep HAL on ground we all know their professionalism is missing somewhere inside their ac pantry for coffee and biscuits.

one mor epoint i just read that you mentioned sukhoi is using composite used in tejas can you please provide any link to that. as far as my knowledge which comes from a friend who ride on the mighty sukhoi said that one cannot just use carbon composites instead of titanium composites on a design randomly as balance of aircraft and so many things are of concern. If it is happening it means HAL is able to play around with sukhoi design and can easily make the jet if required in numbers even without russian help and using ge engines. Damn we will not do that to keep russians happy but then china is doing it why can't we? my two cents

 

[cobra commando]

HAL's new Fuel Slushing Hangar set up to carry out fuel operations on LCA like consumption sequence checks, pressurization checks, leak checks etc.