Firstly, what's shown during air shows are aerobatics, not air combat manoeuvres. Therefore, extreme flight manoeuvres are never exhibited duri8ng such events. Secondly, aerobatics are flown by aircraft in clean formation & not in weaponised configuration. Therefore, doing vertical loops in 21 seconds or 20.5 seconds is just immaterial. As for parameters like wing-loading, G-load, AoA limit etc etc, these are just figures asked by adolescent fanboys. In air combat, what matters most is the instantaneous turn rate, sustained rate, climb rate, pitch rate & roll rate—all this when carrying weapons. Has anyone to date from ADA or the IAF released any such figures? Has any foreign OEM from the West, Russia or China released any such figures for their MRCAs? Such figures can't be extrapolated from aerobatic manoeuvres performed during air shows. Nor will experimental test-pilots reveal such figures for obvious reasons. Agility still matters when dissimilar air combat engagements involving gun-versus-gun scenarios.
Well he replied.
If he can not explain why tejas mk1 with 20 deg AOA limit and 6G limit could complete a vertical loop within 20 seconds in clean config despite all the talk of massive shortfalls in performance "as alleged by many of it's detractors", he can choose to keep quiet rather than giving such dubious info as response.
Parameters like Thrust to weight ratio, wing-loading, G-load, AoA limit etc etc define what is instantaneous turn rate, sustained rate, climb rate, pitch rate & roll rate—all this when carrying weapons and while not carrying weapons,
Btw tejas has the lowest wing loading of all fighters in IAF this factor combined with TWR determines the all crucial Instantaneous Turn rate ,(excelled by Mirage-2000
and even in mk1 tejas is "atleast equal to 45 million dollar per plane updated mirage-2000" is the award winning test pilot and IAF group captain Suneeth krishna's authentic claim).
This crucial factor is not only in useful in gun fights alone, When fighters close in for dogfight with WVR missiles the fighter with higher Instantaneous Turn Rate will get the first lock and fire solution for its high off bore MHS enabled missile like R-73 on the enemy fighter. This is no trivia that can be dismissed so easily as the guy does it so casually.
All Instantaneous turn rates, Sustained turn rate AOA and G limits published in spec sheet is only in clean config . If the fighters are loaded with similar ratio of external weapons compared to their weight , they will occupy the same space in the ranking which they occupy in clean config ITR, STR tables.
Because Instantaneous turn rates, Sustained turn rate AOA and G limits are meant only for with in visual range WVR missile and gun fights .
Fighters enter the WVR after firing their long range BVR missiles and droping ground bombs and external fuel tanks. No fighter pilot in his sane mind will try to evade enemy BVR with his heavy external fuel tanks and ground weapon while he tries to pull max Instantaneous turn rates, Sustained turn rate AOA and G .
The time taken to complete a vertical or horizontal loop in clean configuration is a measure of the fighter's agility. Thats why they are displayed in airshows giving a true measure of the fighter's ability to the viewers.
There is no need for any aeronautic expert to ask for max Instantaneous turn rates, Sustained turn rate AOA and G with various configuration. These vary according to atmospheric conditions like humidity, temp and height from sea level.
temp in bangalore is close to 30 Deg and it is close to thousand meters above sea level. it is a known fact that STR, ITR will decrease with increase in altitude. In the same way increase in temp will also lead to close to ten percent reduction in both wing lift and engine thrust in indian hot atmospheric conditions compared to the same manouvres pulled by foreign fighters at airshows abroad in sea level altitude and less than 20 deg temp.
Airshow displays are the fanboys is the guy's claim. then can every other fighter do what SU-30 MKI did at airshows away from the airshows?
Prasun Sengupta mentions that LCA MK-1 has problems in agility and even after changing engine to GE F414, this problem will not improve. In fact, only solutions, as per him, are major modifications in the aero structure itself. He mentions the need for either canards or TVC in the engine which is missing in F414. I am wondering why Tamilmani is not talking about it? He can also look at other engines with TVC.
SO if we apply the logic in reverse by remove the rafale's two 75 Kn engine and replace them with two 50 Kn engine agility, Sustained turn rate , Instantaneous turn rate, G limit, AOA , max take off weight will not change perhaps!!!! canards will take care of everything perhaps!!!!
The reason for the higher STR and ITR of rafale and Typhoon is due to their higher TWR, which directly relates to its high powered lower weight engines. Not all due to canards as eggsputrs often falsely allege. The job of canards(generating flow energizing vortex to delay stall at high AOA, allowing the fighter to have more energy level sat higher AOA) is done by lower swept wing leading edge of tejas in the form of compound delta.
Canards also act as extra control surface. To compensate for the absence of canards tejas has bigger after wing control surfaces compared to gripen.
So how come Tejas mk2 will not enjoy such an advantage if lower powered GE-404 is replaced with higher powered GE-414 engine/ Strange pieces of logic!!!!
Then even without TVC Rafale has very close combat specs compared to typhoon . How?
Govt rules for tejas mk2 engine clearly suggest L1 should be selected . SO it will be tough for any one to side step that.
it is often a tried and tested line to argue for ever that without TVC Eurojet engines and canards tejas won't be fit for IAf in mk1 or mk2. But if we ask how come tejas with 6G limits and 20 Deg AOA restrictions and lesser powered GE-404 engines can complete a vertical loop in Aeroindia 2013 within 20-21 seconds, that too at 1000 meters above sea level and at temps that are over 10 deg higher than noraml temp in airshows abroad,,,,,, all the blah, blah tumbles out to confuse every one!!!!
this is the tactic called throwing stones to hide your hand, mostly displayed in NEWSHOUR with Arnab, by all the political commentators!!!!
cannot post a link here youtube link
