ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Zebra]

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/529148895696130048

[tweet]529148895696130048[/tweet]

@ Saurav Jha

Really...?

If lobby works then few countries already has much more powerful lobby in India and they all has time proven track record also.

But does it works now!

 

[sgarg]

If lobby works then few countries already has much more powerful lobby in India and they all has time proven track record also.
But does it works now!

There are different lobbies in New Delhi. This is a fact. But Gripen is not in focus at all.

PM wants 50% local content. This is a serious target. The 50% refers to actual value addition whether in public sector or private sector.

The 50% is not a problem in case of army and even navy, but is a serious challenge in case of air force. This will require a serious attitude change in air force as well as serious accretion in aviation industry.

 

[Zebra]

There are different lobbies in New Delhi. This is a fact. But Gripen is not in focus at all.

PM wants 50% local content. This is a serious target. The 50% refers to actual value addition whether in public sector or private sector.

The 50% is not a problem in case of army and even navy, but is a serious challenge in case of air force. This will require a serious attitude change in air force as well as serious accretion in aviation industry.

Sir, I also said it........

few countries already has much more powerful lobby in India

The point is.......does maker of Gripen has their lobby in India?

It will be nice to see.........on what basis some one claim that.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

#BREAKINGNEWS #TejasTrainerPV6 Sources confirm to @oneindia that the aircraft flew at 0.7 Mach speed. Catch more on @oneindia later.

 

[cobra commando]

Tejas Trainer PV6 during its first flight.
(Source: tarmak007)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Milestone - First Flight of LCA Tejas Trainer PV-6

The second Tejas Trainer PV-6(KH-T-2010) flew for the first time on 8th of Nov 2014 from HAL Airport in Bengaluru. It was piloted by Gp Capt Vivart Singh(Test Pilot) and Gp Capt Kabadwal (a Flight Test Enginer, in the rear cockpit). The flight is another step forward towards achieving the Final Operational Clearance (FOC).

 

[cobra commando]

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas programme received a shot in the arm when PV6 (Prototype Vehicle 6), a final configuration two-seater trainer aircraft from the flight-line, successfully completed its maiden flight at the HAL Airport in Bengaluru on Saturday. The flight was piloted by Grp Capt Vivart Singh along with co-pilot Grp Capt Anoop Kabadwal, both Test Pilots from the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) here. Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) Director P.S. Subramanyam told OneIndia that the flight lasted for around 35-minutes. "Yet another flight that stuck to the textbook plans. The pilots were able to do all the planned maneuvers with great ease. The new engine was tested to full power under all available conditions," Subramanyam said. The PV-6 climbed to a maximum altitude of 30,000 feet, touched 0.7 Mach (speed) and pitched up to 14 degrees angle of attack (AoA). This is the 15th Tejas variant to have flown as part of the programme, the earlier ones being TD1, TD2, PV1, PV2, PV3, PV5 (Trainer), LSP1, LSP2, LSP3, LSP4, LSP5,LSP7, LSP8 and SP1. A naval variant (NP-1) of LCA is also undergoing flight trials now.
(Tarmak007)


Tejas Trainer PV 6 completes first flight successfully - News Oneindia

 

[Apollyon]

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

Ofcourse Kunal. combat range is often 3 times the combat radius , because combat radius is calculated with few minutes of close combat , few minutes of after burner thrust , some time over the target plus the two way distance. So if combat radius is 500 Km then combat range ahould be around 1500 Km plus. then it automatically follows that full ferry range with internal and external fuel tanks will be much more higher than 1700 Kms mentioned.

you have advised us all not to discuss MMRCA vs tejas in this thread but sadly higher IAf officials backing MMRCA have not stopped mudslinging on tejas in any available opportunity,

I am copying my comments , I posted for the article and posting it below.

1 and mk2 are by no means legacy platforms.The present CAS has said that tejas is a welcome addition to IAF's fighting capacity. I dont remember any airchief calling it a legacy platform. Even PV Naik said that once tejas finishes FOC it will be a true multi role 4.5th gen fighter in the gripen class .

Upgraded mirage-2000s will have a far lower range BVR missile than both tejas mk1 and mk2 along with 10 and 30 percent lower Thrust to weight ratio compared to tejas mk1 and mk2 respectively.So how come it become a non legaacy platform while tejas which has better Thrust to Weight ratio and lower wing loading than Mirage-2000 become legacy fighter?

the IAF group captain and most experienced international award winning test pilot of tejas Suneeth krishna has said that tejas mk1 is "at least equal to upgraded mirage-2000". So which is a legacy platform?Grouping tejas with useless hawk and jag shows the article is not reflecting the true ground reality.It is surprising to see high IAF officials routinely indulging in this hate mongering on tejas, whether the recently held Vayu stratpost conference or this article they never fail to mention that tejas is just a mig-21 replacement or it should be closed down or it is a legacy platform!!!!But test pilot accounts are so different from their views!!!!


So it is quiet surprising to hear that while 5 decades old Mig-29s and Mirage-2000s are supposed to be cutting edge frontline fighters tejas is called a legacy platform.Tejas has a bigger radome dia than rafale to fit any future higher powered ASEA radars.

Legacy means older designs.In that case it is the rafale which is older in design than both Tejas mk1 and mk2.And once china inducts J-20 and J-31 the 20 billion dollar rafale will be a true legacy platform designed in the 1980s with no stealth 5th gen airframe concepts in mind.

People are free to support any fighter of their choice for MMRCA, but that doesn't mean one has to stick a legacy label on tejas, mk2 of which is yet to fly.how come a fighter that hasn't even flown become a legacy platform?

I thought ASRs were issued with certain capability aims. It is the first time I hear that MMRCA was selected for coercive capability to affect the mind of adversary!!!!

Including the Eurofighter is no canard by kanard. Airmarshal should remember that IAF has shortlisted both rafale and eurofighter for their MMRCA shortlist.In case eurofighter was offered at a lower price , it would have won the MMRCA bid.Even now if some problem arose in negotiations with Dassault Eurofighter is still the L2 choice.

It is my humble request that you write a blog with all the points and post the link on the twitter page of our PM and the new defense minister Mr. Manohar Parikkar. Indian news papers just fight for their own freedom of speech, but when it comes to freedom in allowing our comments, they prefer dictatorship. Hypocritical buggers!

I agree with you completely that there exists a lobby of retired IAF officers who have been heavily influenced by the foreign defense companies to constantly downgrade Tejas and influence the government to purchase fighter jets from abroad, recently more from the west than just Russia. If IAF is ruining the efforts of all the engineers in Tejas and LCH, the Indian army is ruining the efforts of all the engineers with Arjun MBT MK2. All of these Indian products are excellent hardware, stuck up unfortunately in Victorian mind set, ego and corruption.

Please start writing a blog, Saktivel.

cheers.

 

[pmaitra]

@Senyor Sandeep, good suggestion. @ersakthivel could write a well argued and convincing article, and it could be considered for DFI front page after staff review. I would be more than happy to edit it.

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

@Senyor Sandeep, good suggestion. @ersakthivel could write a well argued and convincing article, and it could be considered for DFI front page after staff review. I would be more than happy to edit it.

Please get together and do it immediately. We still can make our new government to rethink about Rafael if we have convincing write ups supporting Indian Tejas. Most importantly, I believe they should stop spending 45 million $ for upgrading each Mirage 2000. That is an absolute waste of money.

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

I have even requested "Geek at Large" IBN blog writer Saurav Jha to come, join and participate in the discussions here. He could also write articles for DFI that you could publish if you are interested.

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

Despite the repeated attempts by the reporter to get IAF chief to attest his bogey that tejas mk1 is under powered IAF chief has refused to oblige.
Attempts of the reporter to float the kite that," LCA with GE-404 is under powered ,says IAF chief", couldn't succeed.


Guys parading as defence jour-analists don't even know this basic fact!!!
[/B]

These are the people I call "Buddhi Jeevis", people who sell their brains and education to just earn money. Jo log Buddhi bhej ke paise kamaathe! and we have a lot of these people in all sectors.

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Good point, and I was thinking the same thing.

It would be great if we have LCA (Kaveri x 1) and MCA (Kaveri x 2). That would also bring down the cost of production.

Has anyone so far compared the performance of Tejas with latest Kaveri engine and that with GE Engine? What áre the limitations of Tejas with Kaveri engine? How much thrust is IAF expecting and how much has been achieved by Kaveri? I see many conflicting reports and that is why I am requesting to share a final accepted version of the report.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

A Comparison is required >>

General Electric F404

Length: 154 in (3,912 mm)
Diameter: 35 in (889 mm)
Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,036 kg)
Dry thrust: 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
With AfterBurners : 17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner

===============

GTRE Kaveri

Length: 137.4 in (3490 mm)
Diameter: 35.8 in (910 mm)
Dry weight: 2,724 lb (1,235 kg) [Goal: 2,100-2450 lb (950-1100 kg)]
Military thrust : 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN) (planned to be refined to >95 kN)

================

Dr. V.K. Saraswat talk in IITB >>

- Current Kaveri generates 78KN wet thrust Vs goal of 81KN.
- Higher turbine inlet temp 1900 deg K, requires SCB
- HAL has SCB tech from Su-30 ToT, but HAL doesn't have knowledge to create SCB for new configuration reqd by new Kaveri. HAL personnel lack knowledge for creating new design.

==========
==========

Conclusion >

In present config, Kaveri is over-weighted, IAF needed weight reduction or Max thrust 81kn, Though IMHO, Kaveri is good enough to mass produce for Tejas which are intended for export as many nation does not want to have US made engines, It is also applicable for MIG-21/27 class fighters both in service and export, Once it get its certifications ..

Next year, the GTRE plans to show the engine's performance first on an Il-76 plane and then as the second engine fitted on a twin-engined fighter like MiG-29. It would be tuned to certification standards >>

New tailwinds for Kaveri engine - The Hindu

Has anyone so far compared the performance of Tejas with latest Kaveri engine and that with GE Engine? What áre the limitations of Tejas with Kaveri engine? How much thrust is IAF expecting and how much has been achieved by Kaveri? I see many conflicting reports and that is why I am requesting to share a final accepted version of the report.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Kunal Sir does that mean the only issue that I think is relevant(Rest all they say is to just defame it) with Tejas MK1 that it doesnot have its own engine is bogus?
As If Americans refuses someday we can build or own....

Kindly do share the impact of those 3KN and weight difference due to which it was or it is side lined....

As per my knowledge There is a huge possibility that the results are not at full power ... while testing they must have kept some safety factors/safety features....which might not allow engine to reach its ultimate power ....

And how often an aircraft is required to generate MAX?

A Comparison is required >>

 

[sgarg]

Kaveri can be put in LCA but question is if IAF will accept it. And until it sells domestically, foreigners will not buy.

But I am happy about Kavery. Americans are fickle and their weapons sales can stop any time.

So development of Kavery engine provides an option to India.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

It is absolutely bogus indeed, Kaveri passed all major parameters in Russia it can power Tejas without any doubt, It just IAF did not as the project was little late and IOC and FOC deadlines had to be meet ..

I don`t believe that is the reason, I believe it is because of the delays, In case their is any embargo or as per our own need or even wish, We have a Indigenous choice ..

We are yet to see that, Presently it will gain its certification end of this year ..

Mostly during a chase, Interception and Dogfight ..

Kunal Sir does that mean the only issue that I think is relevant(Rest all they say is to just defame it) with Tejas MK1 that it doesnot have its own engine is bogus? As If Americans refuses someday we can build or own....

Kindly do share the impact of those 3KN and weight difference due to which it was or it is side lined....

As per my knowledge There is a huge possibility that the results are not at full power ... while testing they must have kept some safety factors/safety features....which might not allow engine to reach its ultimate power ....

And how often an aircraft is required to generate MAX?

 

[Pulkit]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

It is absolutely bogus indeed, Kaveri passed all major parameters in Russia it can power Tejas without any doubt, It just IAF did not as the project was little late and IOC and FOC deadlines had to be meet ..

I don`t believe that is the reason, I believe it is because of the delays, In case their is any embargo or as per our own need or even wish, We have a Indigenous choice ..

We are yet to see that, Presently it will gain its certification end of this year ..

Mostly during a chase, Interception and Dogfight ..

I read somewhere where it said it is under powered .... and overweight....
but if you see the engines still used in MIGS they are heavier and even produce lesser power.... they are happy to use them....

Once you start manufacturing say batch wise ... targetting one thing improvement at a time you can achieve your goal....
If you keep it stand still nothing is gonna come out of it...

we all know on manufacturing/assembly lines various alternatives arise which help the product...


Back to my question again...

Delays is one factor ok,,,, They why dont they let Kaveri be part of Tejas MK2 .... we have a engine and I say next 2-3 years we can do wonders with it... but if we buy the 414 then Kaveri even if it achieves the desired standards of IAF which are obviously too high will be sitting on the shelf waiting for the mid life change.... even then nothing can be promised....


IAF statement that it has achieved 78 not 81 how much is that relevant..??

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

To be very honest,not merging kaveri engine with LCA is a big confusion and mistry.in one hand DRDO is claiming dry thrust of kaveri is 53kn which is enough for lca but in other hand they don't equips it with tejas.