ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Defcon 1]

The significance of this flight is that it gives closure to those of us following the program for a long time, since the first flight in my case. For the very first time, there is no more "when" but a more silent moment of celebration and peace. Tejas is no more a work in progress, it is now in production.

If i remember correctly, sp1 wont see active squadron service. An iaf official said that during ioc2. So not as much of a milestone as u hoped. Real milestone will be first flight of sp3

 

[Twinblade]

If i remember correctly, sp1 wont see active squadron service. An iaf official said that during ioc2. So not as much of a milestone as u hoped. Real milestone will be first flight of sp3

IAF hasn't said so. SP1 will not see squadron service only if it doesn't meet the IOC 2 standards as the construction started before the build configuration was finalised.

 

[Defcon 1]

What is the production shedule of Sp2 3 4

and what is the delivery schedule for handing over SP1 2 3 4 to IAF ?

1 and 2 were part of same batch. Will be delivered together

 

[Pulkit]

If i remember correctly, sp1 wont see active squadron service. An iaf official said that during ioc2. So not as much of a milestone as u hoped. Real milestone will be first flight of sp3

IAF hasn't said so. SP1 will not see squadron service only if it doesn't meet the IOC 2 standards as the construction started before the build configuration was finalised.

What do you mean by "Active squadron service"?
As per the recent news it has closed the gap to AOA and it was able to be operated without any telematry support .....
and to add to it ability of Tejas for multiple sorties has also been strengthened due to the fact that not much work was needed to be done after its first flight....

We need SP1 SP2 SP3 to achieve FOC i believe which is no way possible before March 2015 so the actual occasion for celebration is still not close enough... and even after that what will we celebrate about ?

A potent 4th Gen fighter Aircraft converted to LIFT...
Or
In the name of Mass Production Producing 40 of those trainers after decades of effort.....

 

[Defcon 1]

IAF hasn't said so. SP1 will not see squadron service only if it doesn't meet the IOC 2 standards as the construction started before the build configuration was finalised.

Tejas Induction into Air Force to Take More Time - The New Indian Express

Go through the above. As of December, iaf had decided that the first squadron will be raised from sp3

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas Induction into Air Force to Take More Time - The New Indian Express

Go through the above. As of December, iaf had decided that the first squadron will be raised from sp3

Sources monitoring the Tejas programme said that, HAL's promise of delivering the first production variant of Tejas (SP-1) by March 2014 might be little far-fetched. "We hope to have the first aircraft by end by mid of 2014. The first two aircraft (SP-1, SP-2) might not meet our standards for squadron formation as the metal cutting and hardware were done before we froze the IOC-2 test points. We will raise the first Tejas squadron with four aircraft starting from SP-3 to SP-6," a top source said. The IAF will use SP-1 and SP-2 for evaluation flight to be undertaken by the test pilots of Aircraft System and Testing Establishment (ASTE). The limited series production variants LSP-7 and LSP-8 too will be used for evaluation flights by the IAF.

ADA has already said that the wings of SP-1 were sent to NAL and found to have zero deviation with IOC-2 standards.

And it seems you have failed to notice the official statement that SP1 is a debugged version of LSP-8, i.e IOC-2 standard.

SO IAF wont throw them away after evaluating I suppose.

Ok. So why didn't the IAF buy just two of the following series of fighters for evaluation by ATSE before buying them in bulk , which were all delivered half finished products nowhere near the completenes of the present SP-1 ?

1) Mirage 2000 . It came with just integral cannons. The Matra 550 and Super 530 were integrated later, not to mention the LGB pod and stuff. Could it take on the Pakistani F-16s as of 1984?

2) Mig 29 - Lemon of engine, massive hanger queens, huge maintenance problems, most weapons not integrated back in 1985/86

3) SU-30K - The initial batch of 18 were not fully capable, didn't have the integration of weapons that the MKI has , lacked A2G capability, sat out the Kargil war.

So why given your logic were these platforms bought and used with just initial capabilities? Did the IAF induct them in squadron service or threw them away after evaluation? There is nothing to evaluate as the above fighters did not have any useful capabilities to even evaluate at the initial stage of their buy. So how did the IAF use these planes initially and how did it induct the first batch of fighters or not?

These are not my words but Vina's retort in BRf to a guy who used the same logic as you are using?

 

[ersakthivel]

Unable to understand the significance of this flight...

sorry to put it like this.... but what was so great about this flight..... its yet not FOC level if i am correct.... and if its just to celebrate that finally the first SP is flying(which should have been flying few months back) then its no at all grt....

they should show case or flaunt such achievements if they meet foc timelines and production deadlines....

No body is flaunting anything.


A 100 F-35 are already inducted into USAf with no IOC or FOC, which I am saying for the umpteenth time here.


Sp-1 means the fighter is in serial production. From now on blaming HAL or ADA wont wash. If GOI and IAF are serious about tejas they should pour more resources into the program and increase the production capacity to meet the needs is the message of the Sp-1's first flight.

 

[ersakthivel]

Milestone ???? Getting Delivered to user who has rejected / ridiculed/insulted Tejas at each and every step....
It was ready for induction years back if USer with the intention of derailing it had not changed its need under the influence of lobbies....

A section of the user community has motives other than national security concerns in dumping on tejas as you can easily judge from endless rants in vayustratpost conference,

Saying a fighter after so much trials testing ... impeccable record... meeting most of the requirements..... fit for being a Lead trainer is an insult to all those who believed in them and that too under influence... sad...

Attempt to brand it as LIFT is also motivated propaganda.

there is no fun in boosting assembly capability here as first four were to be delivered by this year end... Is it close to reality ... ?????

Please let us know hpw much money was invested by GOI and IAF in the tejas production line with the aim of fast tracking things before commenting on production rate.

40 odd on order.... what sought of mass production are we looking at ?

production is not gping to stop at 40 odd. The same line is going to be used for mk2 , and if there are some dellays in mk2 then extra orders for a 20 odd m1s can be given.

You also are not sure about what you wrote otherwise you would have not used the word "IF" in your statement.....

every one is sure about the future course of the program there is nothing to worry about.

What the SP-1 flight and


Military sources say Tejas SP-1 flew for 25 minutes and touched a maximum speed of 0.6 Mach.Maiden outing without telemetry support seen as a morale booster for HAL, ADA, NFTC teams.

Tejas likely to fire #DebryBVRAAM and #PythonAAM missiles soon(approx 3 months).

AoA (Angle of Attack) of Tejas is getting closer to 26 degrees..

2 test variants of Tejas currently on a '#bombingmission' in Jaisalmer. New bombs (250 kg & 450 kg) being tested.

Anantha Krishnan in Twitter.

LCA update #1: Cobham IFR and quartz radome expected to be delivered by November. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update #2: Gun firing demonstrated from ground to user for all necessary parameters. Airborne testing in Jamnagar. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update #3: Angle of Attack up to 26 degrees demonstrated. More testing is underway. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update #4: Derby carriage trials Mid-October. Test firing by end-October. Dr TamilMani says piece of cake. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update#5: IFR is not an issue once the assembly is actually delivered. Some more air to ground weapons are also being integrated.
LCA update #6: SP-1 is a completely debugged version of LSP-8 and is performing very well according to Dr Tamil Mani.

by Saurav jha



means is.

Most of its detractors who lied like,
1.it had a draggy airframe,
2.faulty air inlet starving the engine at high AOA,
3.It was below Mig-21 level and obsolete,
4. IAF will only use it as a trainer,
5.Since its gun trials and BVR trials are not done , issues might crop up stall its induction,


are all proved wrong finally.

Because if air intake is wrong how could the fighter take off with meaning ful load specified by IAf from the stipulated distance from Leh and reach 26 deg AOA(to be improved further)

Also its initial MTOW was 12 .5 tons now it lifts 13.2 tons. So if the air intake is wrong then it can not lift more weight than it was originally specified.

So in effect it is now upto IAF and GOI to induct it faster.

You should note that the panel headed by same Air marshal matheswaran (who said that tejas program should be stopped as it is below mig-21 level in vayu stratpost conference!!!) nixed the GTRE-Snecma proposal to develop a 90 KN engine , in 2006 itslef saying that "GTRE will not learn anything from it!!!!", and since it wont meet the mk2 98 Kn needs thre is no use in developing such an engine.

had it been done we could have a fully indigenous tejas mk1 with Snecma- GTRE JV 90 Kn engine , with a very good export prospect, because all its tech will be with indian IP rights with no interference from western countries.Also the extra 6 Kn thrust would have made mk1 more effective.
"

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas moves closer to final clearance, induction | Defenceradar News

========================================================
The series production was finalized in September last year and received the second initial operational clearance (IOC-II) in December last year. It has taken one full year for the aircraft which will now await the final operational clearance (FOC) to embark on its maiden flight.


The Indian Air Force (IAF), which has been extremely critical of the project, had wanted an IOC-II because the aircraft was found 'unworthy' for the forces after the initial operational clearance in January 2012.


"Generally there is the IOC and then the FOC, in this case, despite the IOC in 2012, IAF was not ready to accept the aircraft for final clearance and IOC-II took place in December last year after a series of issues were sorted out," a well-placed source said.


The cost of one single SP standard LCA, a senior HAL official said, could touch about Rs 160 crore. "Initially the cost was estimated to be about Rs 120-crore, but now I think it will cost us at least Rs 40 crore more per aircraft," he said.

HAL chairman R K Tyagi, in an official statement said: "The aircraft is now ready for IAF operations." But that may depend on the successful completion of FOC, a date for which is yet to be scheduled.
IAF has sought 20 LCAs in the first phase and the demand for the aircraft is likely to go up.
======================================================

 

[sasi]

*dhanush found some support from army

*navy lca1 may order more

*luh prototype in mar 2015(air show)?

*lch nearing ioc

*Astra air-launched test against actual target soon. LRSAM dual pulse motor is working beautifully. Astra will be LCA's main BVR armament.

*RCI-iaf favours indegenious missles and amm...

 

[p2prada]

If i remember correctly, sp1 wont see active squadron service. An iaf official said that during ioc2. So not as much of a milestone as u hoped. Real milestone will be first flight of sp3

IAF hasn't said so. SP1 will not see squadron service only if it doesn't meet the IOC 2 standards as the construction started before the build configuration was finalised.

ASTE will take over SP-1 and SP-2 along with the last two LSPs. Squadron will be raised with SP-3,4,5 and 6 as soon as ASTE give the go ahead for production after evaluations.

This is the information from December. No idea if things have changed since then.

Regardless, the first flight of SP-1 is as big a milestone as the first flight of LCA. Now IAF pilots will fly the aircraft.

 

[sgarg]

It is clear and logical that first few Tejas delivered to IAF will be used for conversion training.

However nothing stops these planes to be used in war.

 

[Pulkit]

No body is flaunting anything.


A 100 F-35 are already inducted into USAf with no IOC or FOC, which I am saying for the umpteenth time here.

Tejas is built for IAF requirement not F35 so i m not concerned with F35.... Tejas has been flying for about a decade and has a impeccable record all this time.... so it needs to IOC FOC to proove its metal for me atleast....

Sp-1 means the fighter is in serial production. From now on blaming HAL or ADA wont wash. If GOI and IAF are serious about tejas they should pour more resources into the program and increase the production capacity to meet the needs is the message of the Sp-1's first flight.

NO SP-1 here does not mean The fighter in serial production because IAF has placed it in the category of Trainer not a fighter to boost or pressurize the govt to push Rafale deal for closure.... such a shame.....

every one is sure about the future course of the program there is nothing to worry about.

What the SP-1 flight and


Military sources say Tejas SP-1 flew for 25 minutes and touched a maximum speed of 0.6 Mach.Maiden outing without telemetry support seen as a morale booster for HAL, ADA, NFTC teams.

SP1 is not gonna be part of any squad i think first three will be for verification stuff and all certification related things....

Tejas likely to fire #DebryBVRAAM and #PythonAAM missiles soon(approx 3 months).

AoA (Angle of Attack) of Tejas is getting closer to 26 degrees..

40 to be built which will be acting as lead trainer thanks to our own IAF ..... ADA HAL

2 test variants of Tejas currently on a '#bombingmission' in Jaisalmer. New bombs (250 kg & 450 kg) being tested.

Anantha Krishnan in Twitter.

LCA update #1: Cobham IFR and quartz radome expected to be delivered by November. #FOCMarch2015

This was available in TArmak blog few months back that FOC will be by 2015 march but ADA/HAL/DRDO agencies/scientists stressed it will be done by the much hyped deadline dec 2014....

LCA update #2: Gun firing demonstrated from ground to user for all necessary parameters. Airborne testing in Jamnagar. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update #3: Angle of Attack up to 26 degrees demonstrated. More testing is underway. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update #4: Derby carriage trials Mid-October. Test firing by end-October. Dr TamilMani says piece of cake. #FOCMarch2015
LCA update#5: IFR is not an issue once the assembly is actually delivered. Some more air to ground weapons are also being integrated.
LCA update #6: SP-1 is a completely debugged version of LSP-8 and is performing very well according to Dr Tamil Mani.

by Saurav jha

means is.

Most of its detractors who lied like,
1.it had a draggy airframe,
2.faulty air inlet starving the engine at high AOA,
3.It was below Mig-21 level and obsolete,
4. IAF will only use it as a trainer,
5.Since its gun trials and BVR trials are not done , issues might crop up stall its induction,

We have been saying here on this forum about all these liars who have been defaming Tejas for long but what to do the damage has been done already ....
they hve categorised it as lead trainer and nothing more... I just wish Tejas mk2 doesnot meet the same fate ....

are all proved wrong finally.

They got substantiated when they rejected Tejas as Fighter Aircraft .... and against all odds called it a trainer

Because if air intake is wrong how could the fighter take off with meaning ful load specified by IAf from the stipulated distance from Leh and reach 26 deg AOA(to be improved further)

Tejas is far better than MIG 21 it was supposed to replace ....in light category its the best ... IAF in there love for Rafale have done all bad to it they could do....

Also its initial MTOW was 12 .5 tons now it lifts 13.2 tons. So if the air intake is wrong then it can not lift more weight than it was originally specified.

So in effect it is now upto IAF and GOI to induct it faster.

thats like asking "billi ko doodh ki rakhi " or "Asking for favour from your enemy

You should note that the panel headed by same Air marshal matheswaran (who said that tejas program should be stopped as it is below mig-21 level in vayu stratpost conference!!!) nixed the GTRE-Snecma proposal to develop a 90 KN engine , in 2006 itslef saying that "GTRE will not learn anything from it!!!!", and since it wont meet the mk2 98 Kn needs thre is no use in developing such an engine.

had it been done we could have a fully indigenous tejas mk1 with Snecma- GTRE JV 90 Kn engine , with a very good export prospect, because all its tech will be with indian IP rights with no interference from western countries.Also the extra 6 Kn thrust would have made mk1 more effective.
"

Kaveri Tejas all went in vain due to influence of lobbies and our spineless authorities.....

 

[Twinblade]

 

[Twinblade]

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas is built for IAF requirement not F35 so i m not concerned with F35.... Tejas has been flying for about a decade and has a impeccable record all this time.... so it needs to IOC FOC to proove its metal for me atleast....
NO SP-1 here does not mean The fighter in serial production because IAF has placed it in the category of Trainer not a fighter to boost or pressurize the govt to push Rafale deal for closure.... such a shame.....
SP1 is not gonna be part of any squad i think first three will be for verification stuff and all certification related things.... 40 to be built which will be acting as lead trainer thanks to our own IAF ..... ADA HAL This was available in TArmak blog few months back that FOC will be by 2015 march but ADA/HAL/DRDO agencies/scientists stressed it will be done by the much hyped deadline dec 2014.... We have been saying here on this forum about all these liars who have been defaming Tejas for long but what to do the damage has been done already ....
they hve categorised it as lead trainer and nothing more... I just wish Tejas mk2 doesnot meet the same fate .... They got substantiated when they rejected Tejas as Fighter Aircraft .... and against all odds called it a trainer Tejas is far better than MIG 21 it was supposed to replace ....in light category its the best ... IAF in there love for Rafale have done all bad to it they could do.... thats like asking "billi ko doodh ki rakhi " or "Asking for favour from your enemy

Kaveri Tejas all went in vain due to influence of lobbies and our spineless authorities.....

You are just believing all those fake planted stories written in newspapers by DDM folks quoting ""unnamed" IAF higher officials!!!!

SO there is really no point in dragging this debate further.

SP-1 nay be of IOC-2 standard, but it can fire any BVR missile that will be evaluated by LSP-8 the time of FOC.

It is no miracle to add these capacities to SP-1.

Also whenever Astra nk1 is qualified by any tejas any time in the future Sp-1 can be altered to carry it also.Because these capabilities are already built in by the design stage of SP-1 itself. Only its validation and safe operation certification that is pending.

By IOC-2 Tejas did not get clearance for its gun, Does that mean SP-1 and 2 will never fire their guns in their lifetime?? Only an art graduate can make such an uninformed guess.

BVR missile and gun firing though not certified for IOC-2 will be added to SP-1 after FOC certifies these aspects. It is no wing redesign or fuselage cum engine redesign .They are all just sub system additions .

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas Production line at mercy of further orders | idrw.org

Many IAF worthies are crying hoarse at the depleting IAF strength .

But a brand new tejas production line faces closure in three years flat if IAF does not order additional tejas!!!!

Right now the sanctioned cost of each tejas mk1 is just 130 crore. HAL has asked the MOD to for a price of 160 crores, but the decision is still pending!!!!

Nowhere in the world can we get a such a 4.5th gen RSS all digital fly by wire with decent radar specs and pay load specs fighter for 160 crores.

But IAF is playing the same game played by IA on Arjun.

The production line cost just 1556 crores and IAF paid just 350 odd cr as advance!!!

But they are ready to pay 18000 crore to dassault within three months of signing the final MMRCA contract!!!

With the help of few ghost story writers in the media the MMRCA lobby in IAF is spreading so much falsehoods on tejas mk1 calling it a trainer and below Mig-21 levels in souped up stages like the recently concluded vayu strat post conference.

All the while IAF pilots are flying in 400 odd outdated Migs and jags . This MMRCA lobby is doing such an orchestrated defence of its stand to tarnish tejas mk1 as trainer and wants to linit the order to just 40 so that the production line will go idle in three years time.

lets see whether the new govt will see through this game and order more tejas mk1s to keep the production line running and let more IAF pilots flying in useful 4.5th gen fighter like tejas in place of the obsolete Nig-21,23,27s and jags.

IAf can easily order close to 80 tejas mk1 to keep the production line running , and replace the older planes with mk1.and allow enough time for tejas mk2 certification. Now with FOC just 3 or 6 months away lets see what interesting excuses are peddled by inport lobbies to keep the tejas mk1 number at just 40 in IA.

http://idrw.org/?p=44222

 

[Zebra]

When we are getting GE F414 engines?

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas Production Variant SP-1 Makes First Flight | idrw.org

Unlike other occasions we have no corrections to make either before or after the flight

http://idrw.org/?p=44228

Integration of Astra to tejas will take place in 2015-2016.
And Astra will be the main BVR for tejas .

Astra mk2 with higher range will also be fielded on both tejas mk1 and Mk2.

other Su-30 MKI tejas mk1 and Mk2 are going to the next fighters to carry both Astraq nk1 and mk2 as their main BVR missiles.

Only IN has asked for Derby as it is already using it.



SO a lot of info is tumbling out on tejas mk1 .SORRY DDM FOLKS,It's all over for you guys .

Other than R&# there will be no other Russian missile for tejas as even after several rounds of talks russians have refused to give the source code of their longer range missiles for their integration into tejas.

No wonder tejas faces stiff opposition and sanctions from all around. But Astra will be enough for tejas I think.

 

[tramp]

Who will knock some sense into the politicians/bureaucrazies/military? Along with the Swach Bharat, India needs a new Swaraj movement in defence production... at least in areas where India is strong.. but the indications are pretty bleak.

Tejas Production line at mercy of further orders | idrw.org

Many IAF worthies are crying hoarse at the depleting IAF strength .

But a brand new tejas production line faces closure in three years flat if IAF does not order additional tejas!!!!

Right now the sanctioned cost of each tejas mk1 is just 130 crore. HAL has asked the MOD to for a price of 160 crores, but the decision is still pending!!!!

Nowhere in the world can we get a such a 4.5th gen RSS all digital fly by wire with decent radar specs and pay load specs fighter for 160 crores.

But IAF is playing the same game played by IA on Arjun.

The production line cost just 1556 crores and IAF paid just 350 odd cr as advance!!!

But they are ready to pay 18000 crore to dassault within three months of signing the final MMRCA contract!!!

With the help of few ghost story writers in the media the MMRCA lobby in IAF is spreading so much falsehoods on tejas mk1 calling it a trainer and below Mig-21 levels in souped up stages like the recently concluded vayu strat post conference.

All the while IAF pilots are flying in 400 odd outdated Migs and jags . This MMRCA lobby is doing such an orchestrated defence of its stand to tarnish tejas mk1 as trainer and wants to linit the order to just 40 so that the production line will go idle in three years time.

lets see whether the new govt will see through this game and order more tejas mk1s to keep the production line running and let more IAF pilots flying in useful 4.5th gen fighter like tejas in place of the obsolete Nig-21,23,27s and jags.

IAf can easily order close to 80 tejas mk1 to keep the production line running , and replace the older planes with mk1.and allow enough time for tejas mk2 certification. Now with FOC just 3 or 6 months away lets see what interesting excuses are peddled by inport lobbies to keep the tejas mk1 number at just 40 in IA.

Impending MMRCA Waste | idrw.org