ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Kunal Biswas]

Airforce`s Single seater

Airforce`s Trainer Version of Tejas mk1

Indian Navy Version of Tejas MK1

Dash 3 HMDS

===================================

Yes, Trainer is developed long back to train pilots, Its operational under IOC config ..

Hey Guys, This Tejas (which was flown by DAC along with Test Pilot) is a 2 seater a/c & if it is then it means the Tejas Trainer Program is also moving along with the fighter a/c program?

Please enlighten me as I am just an admirer of this Bird.

 

[ninja85]

===================================

Yes, Trainer is developed long back to train pilots, Its operational under IOC config ..

both are same?nlca and air force trainer.

 

[ersakthivel]

RTI for citizens Right to Information: RE: [IAC#RG] KANGAL KIYA DESH KO, NIRBAL BANAYS FAUJ KO; BADNAM KIYA DESH KO

Firstly, as testified by the IAF test pilots who have flown the Tejas through more than a thousand hours of flight-testing, the current version of the fighter, i.e. the Tejas Mark I, is already a world-class fighter that has achieved most performance landmarks that the IAF had demanded. It flies at Mach 1.6 (about 2,000 kmph), a speed that the IAF is satisfied with. Its state-of-the-art quadruplex digital flight control system makes it a maneuverable and easy-to-fly fighter, unlike the unforgiving MiG-21 that it is slated to replace. The Tejas has not had a single accident so far, testifying to the stability of its design.



Another key measure of a fighter's capability is the Angle of Attack (AoA) it can achieve. The higher the AoA, the more lift that is generated, allowing a fighter to get airborne at slower speeds from short airstrips, e.g. aircraft carriers. The IAF had demanded an AoA of 26 degrees for the Tejas. The Tejas has already been tested to 24 degrees, and is on course to achieve that target.



Says Air Commodore (Retd) Parvez Khokhar, who was for years the chief test pilot of the Tejas programme: "The Tejas Mark I is far superior to the MiG-21 fleet that the IAF would have to operate to the end of this decade. In key respects, it is a better fighter than even the Mirage 2000. The Tejas Mark I should enter the IAF's combat fleet in larger numbers and the Tejas Mark II scaled down. This would allow the air force to retire the MiG-21 fleet sooner."



For this, the MoD must review its current plan to build just forty Tejas Mark I fighters, and embark upon another risky adventure to develop a more powerful, capable fighter. Since this would take at least four years of development work, the IAF would not start receiving the Tejas Mark II until 2018.

 

[Pulkit]

can RTI be filed in defense related issues????
+ I dont understand the core issue raised here...

RTI for citizens Right to Information: RE: [IAC#RG] KANGAL KIYA DESH KO, NIRBAL BANAYS FAUJ KO; BADNAM KIYA DESH KO

Firstly, as testified by the IAF test pilots who have flown the Tejas through more than a thousand hours of flight-testing, the current version of the fighter, i.e. the Tejas Mark I, is already a world-class fighter that has achieved most performance landmarks that the IAF had demanded. It flies at Mach 1.6 (about 2,000 kmph), a speed that the IAF is satisfied with. Its state-of-the-art quadruplex digital flight control system makes it a maneuverable and easy-to-fly fighter, unlike the unforgiving MiG-21 that it is slated to replace. The Tejas has not had a single accident so far, testifying to the stability of its design.



Another key measure of a fighter's capability is the Angle of Attack (AoA) it can achieve. The higher the AoA, the more lift that is generated, allowing a fighter to get airborne at slower speeds from short airstrips, e.g. aircraft carriers. The IAF had demanded an AoA of 26 degrees for the Tejas. The Tejas has already been tested to 24 degrees, and is on course to achieve that target.



Says Air Commodore (Retd) Parvez Khokhar, who was for years the chief test pilot of the Tejas programme: "The Tejas Mark I is far superior to the MiG-21 fleet that the IAF would have to operate to the end of this decade. In key respects, it is a better fighter than even the Mirage 2000. The Tejas Mark I should enter the IAF's combat fleet in larger numbers and the Tejas Mark II scaled down. This would allow the air force to retire the MiG-21 fleet sooner."



For this, the MoD must review its current plan to build just forty Tejas Mark I fighters, and embark upon another risky adventure to develop a more powerful, capable fighter. Since this would take at least four years of development work, the IAF would not start receiving the Tejas Mark II until 2018.

 

[ersakthivel]

Foreign guns, made in India | idrw.org

SO we finally are getting to know why IAF vice chief flew tejas after 14 years!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

All right guys,I twitted Saurav Jha from Geek at large to take an interview of CVRDE chief regarding Arjun Mk2 development.He said he will take soon but if we can send him a compilation list of question and suggestion on his email id that would be better for him. So please drop your questions in precise and to point manner . Thanks @Kunal Biswas , @Damian, @arnabmit @ersakthivel @militarysta @Twinblade

can you ask Saurav Jha about this , by giving him the link to the poster in front of the fighter in this photograph?

because many Ninjas here were claiming for eons that tejas can not have an endurance of more than 45 minutes!!!!

The poster gives endurance as 2 hours 30 minutes for tejas,

But if we magnify it the letters get blurred a bit,

I can not make out the range numbers after zooming it..

Am I correct?

 

[Punya Pratap]

Another example to be followed and again something china learnt and decided to act upon.... read the last lines carefully

Engine issues mean China can't power J-15, J-16 fighters
Staff Reporter 2014-09-09 11:17 (GMT+8)
A WS-10A Taihang engine. (Internet photo)
A WS-10A Taihang engine. (Internet photo)

China is unable to produce advanced fighters such as the J-15 and the J-16 in large numbers because it lacks the proper engines to power the aircraft, according to the Moscow-based Military-Industrial Courier on Sept. 8.

According to Kanwa Defense Review, a magazine operated by military analyst Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov, China is not even capable of producing J-11B fighters due to problems with Shenyang Liming Aircraft Engine Company's WS-10A engine. Similar problems led the People's Liberation Army Navy to cancel their plans to install the WS-10A in the J-15, a carrier-based fighter designed to serve aboard the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier.

Both the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force have asked to replace the WS-10A with the more reliable Russian-built AL-31F engines, the magazine stated. China is unlikely to get enough AL-31F engines to power all of its J-15 and J-16 fighters when production starts on the aircraft however. The only option left for China is to stop producing more advanced fighters until it is capable of designing the engines the aircraft need.

Sources from the Chinese aviation industry told the Military-Industrial Courier that the PLA is losing its patience with the WS-10A engines. Without proper competition among state-run engine producers, the source said that China is unable to design the engines it needs to power its new aircraft. The Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China suggested that the PLA Air Force use domestic engines anyway to boost the economy

Lesson 1 : There has to be a synergy amongst GTRE/IAF/DRDO/HAL if we also want a capable engine

Lesson 2 : Self reliance is the best policy simply because a) You can produce as many fighters as you want if you an indegenous engine & b) Even China understands indegenous parts = more jobs=Better Economy!!

 

[shiphone]

Another example to be followed and again something china learnt and decided to act upon.... read the last lines carefully

Engine issues mean China can't power J-15, J-16 fighters
Staff Reporter 2014-09-09 11:17 (GMT+8)
A WS-10A Taihang engine. (Internet photo)
A WS-10A Taihang engine. (Internet photo)

China is unable to produce advanced fighters such as the J-15 and the J-16 in large numbers because it lacks the proper engines to power the aircraft, according to the Moscow-based Military-Industrial Courier on Sept. 8.

According to Kanwa Defense Review, a magazine operated by military analyst Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov, China is not even capable of producing J-11B fighters due to problems with Shenyang Liming Aircraft Engine Company's WS-10A engine. Similar problems led the People's Liberation Army Navy to cancel their plans to install the WS-10A in the J-15, a carrier-based fighter designed to serve aboard the Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier.

Both the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force have asked to replace the WS-10A with the more reliable Russian-built AL-31F engines, the magazine stated. China is unlikely to get enough AL-31F engines to power all of its J-15 and J-16 fighters when production starts on the aircraft however. The only option left for China is to stop producing more advanced fighters until it is capable of designing the engines the aircraft need.

Sources from the Chinese aviation industry told the Military-Industrial Courier that the PLA is losing its patience with the WS-10A engines. Without proper competition among state-run engine producers, the source said that China is unable to design the engines it needs to power its new aircraft. The Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China suggested that the PLA Air Force use domestic engines anyway to boost the economy

Lesson 1 : There has to be a synergy amongst GTRE/IAF/DRDO/HAL if we also want a capable engine

Lesson 2 : Self reliance is the best policy simply because a) You can produce as many fighters as you want if you an indegenous engine & b) Even China understands indegenous parts = more jobs=Better Economy!!

LOL...no lesson from the faked news and none-existing reality... I have seen your effort spreading rumors here and there, but....

the Truth is : Every year, a batch of 30 J11B/BS with WS10A Engine were handed over to PLAAF and PLAN Aviation ...so far, six J11B/J11BS regiments + some J11BS trainer(replacing the aged Su27UBK) units-- around 150 jets are flying for the daily opreational flights... and J16 Attacker has just entered the Small Batch Production(SBP) phase and all emerging J16 were flying with the WS10A...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Keep the discussion till tejas ..

 

[Punya Pratap]

LOL...no lesson from the faked news and none-existing reality... I have seen your effort spreading rumors here and there, but....

the Truth is : Every year, a batch of 30 J11B/BS with WS10A Engine were handed over to PLAAF and PLAN Aviation ...so far, six J11B/J11BS regiments + some J11BS trainer(replacing the aged Su27UBK) units-- around 150 jets are flying for the daily opreational flights... and J16 Attacker has just entered the Small Batch Production(SBP) phase and all emerging J16 were flying with the WS10A...

Shiphone rumours are something that you cannot substantiate with evidence where as whatever I have been posting here is backed by numerous links and same goes for the above mentioned story.

It is a well known fact that you do not get any news worth believing out of China and you are masters are propaganda, stealing someone elses tech by hook or crook (hacking) and reverse engineering.
We all know WS 10 development history right from the jettisoned WS 6 to the use of CFM 56 core to the weight reduction problems you are still facing.

I will provide you another link to back my claims that the you are still using AL 31 for your domestic fighters that you have so kindly innumerated above :

China's call for arms | Russia Beyond The Headlines ASIA


China's call for arms
The Su-35 fighter may significantly boost China's ability to react to conflicts. Press Photo
Warming ties between Russia and China are reviving the arms trade between the two countries.
One theory doing the rounds in the 2000s was that Russian-Chinese military-technical co-operation was going downhill and would inevitably cease altogether. Now, however, it is obvious that the situation has improved, with Russian military exports to China picking up again. The volume of exports has already reached the level of the 1990s and the early 2000s, and may yet beat that record.
However, one difference is how insignificant the arms trade is in the overall structure of co-operation between the two countries. In the 1990s, military-technical co-operation was one of the pillars of mutual trade, and served as the basis for their bilateral partnership.
After Russian arms exporters had broken into new markets in the 2000s, China's share in the total volume of exported Russian military equipment decreased noticeably. According to published data, Russian arms exports to China peaked during the early years of the last decade.
Engine exports for China's warplanes remained at a relatively significant level throughout the past decade. China is expected to continue buying powerplants from Russia
China is still a major buyer of Russian weapons, second only to India. However, China is no longer crucial to the survival of the Russian defence industry. According to a 2012 statement by Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, exports accounted for only 22 per cent of the national defence industry's total revenues, while 45 per cent came from sales to the national armed forces.
This growing domestic demand, and new export markets, and diversification into civilian markets, has lessened arms manufacturers' dependence on Chinese contracts, while providing Moscow with a significant degree of freedom in negotiating future contracts with Beijing.
The data available indicates that Russian military exports to China exceeded US$1.9 billion in 2011, and expanded last year. As for the newly signed contracts, Russia's state arms exporter Rosoboronexport reports that China accounts for 12 per cent of the overall US$17.6 billion in new arms sales; this puts the total contracts signed with China at more than US$2.1 billion.
Of this figure, US$1.3 billion worth of contracts have been accounted for. These include a US$600 million deal to deliver 52 Mil Mi-171E helicopters, and a US$700 million order for 140 Saturn AL-31F engines.
These powerplants are intended for the Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 fighters previously sold to China, and for indigenous Shenyang J-11B/BS, J-15 and J-16 warplanes.
No one really knows the nature of the contracts for the remaining US$800 million, but may assume that these represent a number of relatively minor orders.
Aero engine exports to China stayed at a relatively significant level throughout the past decade. Sources in the Chinese aerospace industry say the country will continue to buy powerplants from Russia at the same rate in the years to come.
In fact, the number of newly ordered engines may even grow. While Chinese air-framers have achieved impressive results, the country's military warplane engine technology remains at a relatively low level of development. All the three indigenous fourth-generation fighter designs are powered by Russian engines: the AL-31F for the J-11B, the Saturn AL-31FN for the Chengdu J-10, and the Klimov RD-93 for the CAC FC-1.
China's newest Xian H-6K long-range bomber is also fitted with Russian engines of the Soloviev D-30KP2 design. The country's two fifth-generation fighter programmes, the Chengdu J-20 and the Shenyang J-31, are in the flight-testing phase, and China is apparently interested in fitting them with Russian next-generation engines, including the Saturn 117S, which powers the Sukhoi Su-35. In addition, virtually all Chinese-built military and civilian aircraft designs are equipped with imported powerplants.
In terms of helicopter exports to Beijing, apart from contracts for transport helicopters, it is expected that China will continue limited procurement of Kamov's special-mission aircraft, which are either impossible or unfeasible to clone locally in the foreseeable future.
One traditional aspect of bilateral arms trade is represented by joint research and development efforts, or by research and development programmes run by Russia in China's interests.
These include some key Chinese weapons systems, such as the PL-12 air-to-air missile, the HQ-16 SAM system, the Hongdu L-15 combat trainer, the CAIC WZ-10 combat helicopter, the FC-1 tactical fighter, the Project 054À frigate.

The above news is from Russia and they know very well how many engines you are importing from Russia... SO please spare me your judgment regarding what I m doing coz I always furnish links and sources for anything I say unlike you who cannot back your cliams with RELIABLE source since none exists in China!!

 

[shiphone]

Shiphone ..................................

LOL... it's up to you to enjoy another BS...I don't care indeed....

once again ,I have to say

no lesson from the faked news and none-existing reality.

I'm afraid you'd better go back to the topic of this Thread, or your poor Typing Effort would be wasted....LOL...

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/18153-china-military-news-updates-82.html
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/63349-issues-ws-10a-engine-mean-china-cant-power-j-15-j-16-a.html

 

[Punya Pratap]

LOL... it's up to you to enjoy another BS...I don't care indeed....

once again ,I have to say


I'm afraid you'd better go back to the topic of this Thread, or your poor Typing Effort would be wasted....LOL...

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/18153-china-military-news-updates-82.html
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/63349-issues-ws-10a-engine-mean-china-cant-power-j-15-j-16-a.html

Ahha yes I forgot there is a separate thread for WS 10 bashing.... by the way to clear out my stand I brought up the issues with Taihang to illustrate that even China is having problems with the domestically designed engine to defend Kaveri!

Oh another thing.... I suggest when you call something BS it is best to back your claim with a RELIABLE link

 

[CCP]

Ahha yes I forgot there is a separate thread for WS 10 bashing.... by the way to clear out my stand I brought up the issues with Taihang to illustrate that even China is having problems with the domestically designed engine to defend Kaveri!

Oh another thing.... I suggest when you call something BS it is best to back your claim with a RELIABLE link

The pic from US must be a reliable.

 

[p2prada]

The pic from US must be a reliable.

He won't be able to recognize the engine with visual cues.

 

[Zebra]

When those 99 GE 414 engines are coming. Any idea?

 

[ersakthivel]

Which tech rafale has like

1. 4 channel relaxed static stability fly by wire airframe,

2. tail less delta with low wing loading, and high thrust weight ratio to excel in high altitude himalayan theater where taking off with meaningful load within the specified runway length depends on these factors

3. All glass cockpit, and avionics that minimizes pilot loads and designed with active inputs from test pilots through out the flight test regime,

4. RCS reduction mechanism,

5.latest engine tech(present engine on rafale is more than two decades old in thrust levels)

6.Ability to fire 120 Km range BVR missiles with a decent sized radar,

7. A fly by wire airframe with wake penetration and all weather clearance,

8. Ability to fire the deadly HMDS enabled visually cued R-73 E WVR missile? (described as one of the best in the world by Air marshal and former HAL chairman MSD Woolen. Even tejas mk1 has it now but it is proposed to be added to rafale later at extra cost to ourself).

9. Higher percentage of weight reducing , radar refection minimizing composites that enable high thrust to weight ratio for a given airframe mass?

10.The combination of high TWR and low wingloading RSS delta airframe which enables agile turns to evade BVR missiles and get a first shoot ability with Visually cued R-73 E like WVR missiles in close combat, which is a must have option in modern 4.5th gen airframes

11.Ability to carry a mini brahmos like cruise missile weighing close to 1.5 tons on its center line pylon.

12.OBORG for extended refuelled flying in high altitude with the aid of refuelling,

13.A 1.8 mach top speed in its service ceiling with 9 G limits.

14. A must have less than 1 sq meter clean config which enables to drop away from long range radars once heavy external weapons and fuel tanks are released.

15. A good fuel sipping engine that is reliable and modern for some time to come.

16.Ability to fire ramjets 120 Km range missiles like meteor with an ASEA radar that can track long enough,

17. Modular in design and Ability to be upgraded in batches as and when new techs like better sensor fusion, better ASEA radar and better IRST devices arrive.

18, An option to upgrade to a higher thrust engine,

19. A flow separation postponing arrangement like ,

canard or levcon or cranked delta which generates vortex over the top of wing leading edge in high angle of attacks to enables air suction over the top of the smoothly blended upper wing body fuselage,

there by delaying the onset of stall and enabling the wing to reach designed max lift coefficient of the wing which is not present in older delta platforms like mirage-2000.

Also these lift enhancing mechanism along with flawless Relaxed static stability 4 channel fly by wire tech that allows the hassle and easy flying at sea level which is not the case with earlier tailless deltas which did not have the above mentioned techs .

20. Retaining unstable configuration throughout the flight envelope

That wont be present in tejas mk2 and( mostly present in tejas mk1 with a few exceptions like G limits, OBORGs and topspeeds and a bit lower TWR)?

Answer -NONE.

 

[Santu]

:shocked: :shocked: Tejas Mk-2 proved all these capabilities ?? :shocked: :shocked: hufff... ADA guys designing Mk-2 on a gaming console it seems . funniest thing is this line..

16.Ability to fire ramjets 120 Km range missiles like meteor with an ASEA radar that can track long enough,

This same guy one day asked me for a link to support Rafale's ability to fire meteor..

 

[Santu]

Tejas MK-1 doesnt have many things posted above..
Engine - first test in 1978
BVR missile which one it fired ??? :O
Brahmos Mini?? Where is the missile first?? leave about ability..
Ability to evade BVR missile and get first shot in WVR?? :O against which aircraft??? MIG-21??
few things Mk-1 proved are -- RSS Platform.. Cranked Delta wing design.. few WVR missiles.. AOA and Top Speed..

I am not telling Mk-1/Mk-2 is bad design.. But never ever compare a flying aircraft with a aircraft which is flying from past 15 yrs..

 

[rahulrds1]

The MBDA has also offered its MICA and Meteor missiles to the IAF and said that they can be integrated with " various " types of aircraft in IAF.

source:
[ Oct 17, 2011]
European consortium MBDA offers missiles to India for its Russian Sukhois - Economic Times
European firm offers missiles for IAF's Su-30 - IBNLive

"AESA Radar will be ready for LCA by next year" ! , Avinash Chander (DRDO DG)

source : DRDO Preparing for Tomorrow - YouTube

 

[Punya Pratap]

IAF concerned over delays in product delivery | idrw.org
Create an aeronautics commission: R K Tyagi | idrw.org

Great News and a timely one...salient factors :

1) IAF is worried over delays since HAL has nt delivered the SP's till date.

2) Interestingly HAL chief's comment regarding setting up of Indian Aeronautics Commission (IAC) is a reflection on the Subramanium Committees' recommendation which proposed a National Aeronautical Commission but the GoI has for reasons unknown been historically against it..... I hope and pray the present GoI under Modi looks at this afresh.

3) Another good move and a long pending one is a senior IAF officer will be a permanent feature on the HAL board - MoD should be complimented !

4) The said Indian Aeronautical Commission shall be on the lines of Space Commission and its job will be to synergise indegineous efforts, greater cohesion and create greater understanding and speeding up decision making. In short the IAC will be a bridge between the End User (IAF) and the Arms Designer/ Manufacturer (DRDO/HAL) with IAF providing inputs from conceptual stage itself.

I think one of the IAF's secret grouse is that they were nt involved with either DRDO / HAL right from the designing phase has been a major reason behind the Tejas drama.