ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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ersakthivel

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Does the 1700 Km ferry range given for Tejas by ADA includes 2x1200 ltr fuel tanks or not?



Some say it includes and some say it does not, We don't have clear answers til now,

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...eceives-initial-operational-clearance-394420/ other than this article there is no official word that whether the ferry range was given for internal fuels only or with external drop tanks for tejas by HAL.

JF-17 is supposed to have a ferry range of 1800 Km (mentioned as basic range by Shipone here ,i.e with internal fuels only ) Tejas reporting a fery range of 1700 Km with internal fuel plus 2x 1200 liter drop tanks looks a bit odd,

http://www.jf-17.com/specifications/, But this link says JF-17 has a ferry range of 2037 Km with or without external tanks is not mentioned,

because it means tejas has just half the ferry range of JF-17, which is not correct, since there is no big difference in tech to justify such comparison,

Also Grippen which to is a tailless delta report a substantially longer ferry range with the same engine and even higher empty weight than the tejas,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen

A ferry range of 3200 Km with drop tanks, and it has more empty weight and bit lesser powered engine than tejas mk-1,So there can not be such a big differene between them,

So tejas ferry range of 1700 Km could have been meant for jut internal fuels only clean config. Or we do need some clarification on this matter?

Calculating endurance with these specs and SFC figures is not possible,

since most of the time during endurance missions fighters fly at the speed which gives least fuel consumption figs ,

Because we don't now that SFC figures were for the speeds meant for endurance missions or normal strike missions which require higher speeds with greater loads in low altitude which means significantly higher fuel consumption .
 
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ersakthivel

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Press Information Bureau English Releases

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LCA Tejas Gets Initial Operational Clearance for Induction into IAF
IOC of LCA a Major Milestone in Self-Reliance: Antony
Flight Safety Record of Tejas is Unprecdented in Aviation History: ACM Browne

The Defence Minister Shri AK Antony today handed over the Release to Service Certificate of the country's own Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, to the Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, at a function in Bengaluru, marking the fruition of a long and difficult journey of three decades of efforts to make a fighter aircraft of international standards.

Described as Initial Operational Clearance-II of Tejas, the LCA is designed to ultimately replace the Mig 21 fleet of IAF. The timing of IOC- II for LCA coincides with the iconic Mig 21 FL fighter flying into IAF's history just a week ago.

Visibly happy at today's event, Shri Antony said, during the last three years, the capabilities of the aircraft have been improved significantly. "In recognition of the enhanced capabilities, IAF has decided to grant the aircraft a higher status, namely, the Initial Operational Clearance for induction into the Service", he said.

Shri Antony candidly confessed that he had his share of anxieties regarding the future of LCA when he had taken over as the Defence Minister in 2006 but today we are putting behind the moments of self –doubt, frustrations and setbacks which we as a nation have gone through in the last 30 years.

"The improvements to the aircraft have enhanced the flight envelope of the aircraft and also weapon delivery capability of the aircraft. The performance at Iron Fist, Jaisalmer and the recent missile firing at Goa are examples of such improvements. The reliability of the aircraft and serviceability has also been enhanced. The number of flights nearing 500 within this year provides an indication of this. Operating at IAF bases namely, Jamnagar, Jaisalmer, Uttarlai, Gwaliar, Goa, Leh, Pathankot demonstrate the aircraft capability to operate from Air Force bases. There have also been occasions when the same aircraft has flown thrice on the same day, indicating the operational reliability of this home-bred fighter aircraft ", he said.

Shri Antony said military aviation in the country has got a major boost with the approval of several new programmes. Some of these programmes include – Mk2 variants of Navy and Air Force; Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft; Unmanned Air Systems; Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft and Medium Transport Aircraft, to name a few.

Describing the attainment of Initial Operational Clearance as an important milestone in the long journey towards indigenization through self-reliance, Shri Antony said, our public and private sector must work in tandem to develop and produce world-class military systems of the highest quality.

The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne said it is indeed a proud day for the nation and particularly for the IAF; since the grant of IOC acknowledges the capabilities of this aircraft and paves the way for the induction of LCA Mk 1 into operational service. He said the progress of such a challenging experimental project without any accident or major incident is unprecedented in the history of aviation.

On a personal note, ACM Browne said as he prepares to hang his uniform at the end of this month, he would have gone home as a disappointed person if the IOC of the LCA had not been achieved.

Today's event was attended among others by the Scientific Advisor to RM Shri Avinash Chander, Secretary Defence Production Shri GC Pati, Chairman of HAL Shri RK Tyagi, Programme Director of ADA Shri PS Subramanyam, DG- Aero and CE CEMILAC Dr K Tamil Mani.

A Long Journey

The Country had embarked on an ambitious plan to indigenously design and develop the Light Combat aircraft (LCA) to be inducted into IAF and Indian Navy inventory. The Programme has been spearheaded by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Bangalore under the Department of Defence R & D, with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) as its principal partner. A large number of Laboratories of Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) and Central Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR), certification agencies, Indian Air Force, academic institutions and Private/Public Sector Undertakings participated in the LCA development effort.

Indian Light Combat Aircraft, christened 'Tejas', is the smallest, light weight, single engine, single seat, supersonic, multirole, combat aircraft and is one of the best in its class in the world. The quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system ensures acceptable handling qualities while ensuring adequate safety throughout the flight envelope. The advanced Glass cockpit open architecture system complements piloting. Four variants of Tejas aircraft (Combat variant, Trainer and Naval variants) are being developed for land and carrier borne operations.

The Initial Operational Clearance-1 (IOC-I) for 'Tejas' was achieved on 10 Jan 2011. In IOC-I, the Aircraft had a few limitations in terms of Combat performance, turn around time and its weaponisation which had to be refined and improved through Research & Development process. In addition to this, Wake penetration trials, all weather clearances were planned beyond IOC-1.


Since IOC-1, 'Tejas' has accomplished significant milestones. Till date, more than 2450 sorties have been completed to achieve the flight test goals towards IOC-2. The design issues were resolved with System Engineering approach and by periodical reviews with participation of external experts.

The salient features which have been achieved in IOC-2 include Safe flying up to High angle of Attack as mandated by the users. This has considerably enhanced the combat performance of the aircraft. The Flight control system evaluation has also been completed.

The time for initial built-in test has been reduced considerably which enables faster turn around and enhanced operational readiness of aircraft.

The Brake system has been improved significantly in terms of energy absorption capability during landing, thus ensuring prompt turn-around of the aircraft. Significant improvement in Cockpit ergonomic and lighting system has been accomplished for improved night flying. In-flight re-light capability was demonstrated to ensure enhanced safety and reliability of the aircraft.

This is a major achievement. Avionics and Weapon system of the aircraft have been revamped for effective mission superiority. Helmet Mounted Display Sight (HMDS) has been fully integrated in Tejas and R73E missile firing has been successfully demonstrated using HMDS.

Multi Mode Weapon multirole capability of Tejas was demonstrated during its participation in Iron Fist. Air to Ground mission and Air to Air missions were demonstrated by dropping Laser Guided Bombs and R73E firing in single pass. Laser Guided Bomb firing has been achieved for IOC-2 to user's satisfaction.


Aircraft readiness for missions in terms of its readiness and Operational Readiness Platform (ORP) and Turn Round Service (TRS) and easier maintainability has been achieved as per requirement thus enhancing operational readiness of the aircraft.

Tejas has passed all the tests for "All Weather Clearance" of the aircraft. The Aircraft has been cleared for fly without any telemetry support.


IOC-2 shall enable Air Force to carry out air superiority and offensive air support missions, forward air field operations, all weather multi role operations, Electronic counter measures and night flying operations.


LCA Tejas is capable of flying non- stop to destinations over 1700 km away (Ferry Range). It's Radius of Action is upto 500 km depending upon the nature and duration of actual combat.

LCA is powered by the F404/IN20- a well proven turbofan engine, designed and manufactured by General Electric Aircraft Engines, USA. The Engine is modular in construction, consisting of six modules, ensuring easy maintenance.


The F404-GE-IN20 is a low bypass turbofan engine, with augmented thrust provided by the afterburner.
Production Facilities
The production facilities have been set up at HAL and the aircraft delivery is expected to commence from 2014. "We have plans to initially produce eight aircraft per year. Further plans are afoot to enhance the production rate to 16 aircraft per year in consultation with IAF and MoD. HAL is fully geared up to meet the challenging production schedule and hopes to fulfil the requirements of customers in a time bound manner", says the Chairman, HAL, Dr RK Tyagi.

After the achievement of IOC II, HAL will go ahead with the Series Production of LCA Tejas. The Company has already established the structural assembly hangar and the assembly jigs have been calibrated with state of the Laser Trackers to an accuracy of 80 microns (0.08 mm) to meet stringent quality standards. A state of the art CNC drilling machine has been installed to ensure repeatability and reduce the cycle time.


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Here too ,"LCA Tejas is capable of flying non- stop to destinations over 1700 km away (Ferry Range). It's Radius of Action is upto 500 km depending upon the nature and duration of actual combat."

But it does not say with or without drop tanks .

But general meaning of the statement points to with drop tanks config, because "capable of flying non stop to destinations over 1700 Km away " means it is the highest possible distance that can be covered by Tejas, so logically it means with external fuel tanks.

Or they just multiplied the range figure of 800 plus km by 2 and simply wrote that it can travel to destinations 1700 Km away is also not known.

Traditionally ferry range is with full internal and external fuel and no other weapons carried config, But what was adopted here is not explicitly mentioned,

Then how come another tail less delta grippen report a ferry range in excess of 3000 Km , that too with higher empty weight and a bit lower dry thrust version of the GE engine than tejas?

No drag issues here, The drag reduction measure mentioned in CEMILAC report pertains to wave drag during breaking sound barrier in trying to achieve supersonic top speeds in sea level and its got nothing to do with sub sonic ferry range type long endurance flight.

So such a large difference between the ferry range figures of grippen and tejas is not possible considering both are tail less deltas weighing almost the same and having almost the same engine from same maker.
 
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SajeevJino

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Post By indranilroy in BR answers my Question about Range


indranilroy said:
SajeevJino said:
Hello All

Since I was asked a Same Question in Several other forums and Tarmak007 on FB ..Still No one Clears my Doubt

How much time the Tejas will be in the Air with the Internal fuel ..?? with Two BVR and Two IR missiles..

1..In Supersonic Mode

2..In Sub Sonic Mode

Altitude is not the Problem Here in My question

Thanks
This is not so difficult to answer. There are many ways to answer this question. You know that the ferry range is 1700 kms with 1200 ltr drop tanks. So it must at least have a 2 hour endurance under cruise condition.

Another way is to calculate it is from the SFC. But you would need to know the thrust required for the flight at the aforementioned range. I don't know that. But let us continue. For example, let us find the endurance at maximum speed without afterburner. We know that:
1. SFC for military thrust = approx. 84 (kg/kN-hr) .
2. Maximum military thrust = approx. 54 kN.
3. Therefore, the rate of fuel consumption at this speed = approx. 54 kN * 84 kg/(KN-hr) = approx. 4536 kg/hr.
4. Total fuel: 2 X 1200 ltr tanks and about 2600 kg of internal fuel = approx. 4600 kg
5. Therefore, endurance in this regime is nearly 1 hour, and you would have flown around 800-900 kms.

You can do the same thing with afterburners. It will be about half an hour (but you will most probably cook the engine before that).

I want to know why you find endurance important? You can fly slower, hang in there longer and travel lesser. What would be the point?

see that 1700KM range with 1200ltr Drop Tanks ..by 800 km Speed it can stay in the Air for 2 hours
 

SajeevJino

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@ersakthivel

as of my understanding tejas in the air only 45min with internal fuel ..if we add payloads the range decreases ..So it's mission is go beyond 300KM bomb and return to base immediately
 
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ersakthivel

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@ersakthivel

I
as of my understanding tejas in the air only 45min with internal fuel ..if we add payloads the range decreases ..So it's mission is go beyond 300KM bomb and return to base immediately
I saw your session with indranil on BR, thats why I posted it here,

Grippen and tejas can't have such massive difference in ferry rang
e.Please ask the question there and get it clarified,

Here too ,"LCA Tejas is capable of flying non- stop to destinations over 1700 km away (Ferry Range). It's Radius of Action is upto 500 km depending upon the nature and duration of actual combat."

But it does not say with or without drop tanks .

But general meaning of the statement points to with drop tanks config, because "capable of flying non stop to destinations over 1700 Km away " means it is the highest possible distance that can be covered by Tejas, so logically it means with external fuel tanks.

Or they just multiplied the range figure of 800 plus km by 2 and simply wrote that it can travel to destinations 1700 Km away is also not known.

Traditionally ferry range is with full internal and external fuel and no other weapons carried config, But what was adopted here is not explicitly mentioned,

Then how come another tail less delta grippen report a ferry range in excess of 3000 Km , that too with higher empty weight and a bit lower dry thrust version of the GE engine than tejas?

No drag issues here, The drag reduction measure mentioned in CEMILAC report pertains to wave drag during breaking sound barrier in trying to achieve supersonic top speeds in sea level and its got nothing to do with sub sonic ferry range type long endurance flight.

So such a large difference between the ferry range figures of grippen and tejas is not possible considering both are tail less deltas weighing almost the same and having almost the same engine from same maker
grippen reports combat radius of 800 Km and ferry range of 3200 km ,

So why it is so less for tejas with a combat radius of 500 Km and ferry range of 1700 Km,

Do both SAAB and ADA use the same conditions and fuel loads to measure the range , combat radius and ferry range figures or not?
Ask in BR and get a clarification,
Thanks,
 
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Sridhar

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· 2478th flight on 03 Feb

TD1 : 233,PV1: 242,PV3: 381,LSP1: 74,LSP3: 183,LSP5: 246,TD2 : 305,PV2: 222,PV5: 36,LSP2: 290,LSP4: 110,LSP7: 77,NP1: 11, LSP8 :68

2482th flight on 08 Feb
TD1:233,PV1:242,PV3:381,LSP1:74,LSP3:185,LSP5:246,TD2 :305,PV2:222,PV5:36,LSP2:290,LSP4:110,LSP7:77,NP1:11,LSP8:70
 

Sridhar

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24 Degrees AOA

[pdf]http://www.tejas.gov.in/IOC-Brochure.pdf[/pdf]
 

Punya Pratap

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If Mig 21 & Mig 27 are being replaced by Tejas what is Rafael going to replace???

Jags or Mirage 2000 are nt retiring as yet so it leads to the conclusion that even if IAF wants then they will have to wait for Rafael. I think Jags number about 120 plus and thats what Rafael will replace as and when that happen.
 

arnabmit

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· 2478th flight on 03 Feb

TD1 : 233,PV1: 242,PV3: 381,LSP1: 74,LSP3: 183,LSP5: 246,TD2 : 305,PV2: 222,PV5: 36,LSP2: 290,LSP4: 110,LSP7: 77,NP1: 11, LSP8 :68

2482th flight on 08 Feb
TD1:233,PV1:242,PV3:381,LSP1:74,LSP3:185,LSP5:246,TD2 :305,PV2:222,PV5:36,LSP2:290,LSP4:110,LSP7:77,NP1:11,LSP8:70
LSP3 was supposed to test EW systems, right?
 

makmohan

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HAL to deliver two Tejas to IAF by March-end | idrw.org

Indigenous regional transport aircraft is the next aim, said the architect of Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Kota Harinarayana, who now holds the D.S. Kothari Chair at Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore. Dr. Harinarayana hails from Berhampur in Odisha and was on a visit to his home State and town.
Speaking to newsmen during an informal chat in the city, Dr. Harinarayana said now his dream was research in the field of the regional transport aircraft, so that air communication could have greater reach and smaller destinations could get connected by air traffic. The project to develop indigenous regional transport aircraft was expected to cost around Rs. 5,000 crore. Dr. Harinarayana hoped that the coming new government at the Centre would approve the project.
The project envisions building up aircrafts suitable for air traffic inside the country. Dr. Harinarayana said it should have 70 to 100 passenger carrying capacity. There should be extra thrust on making this proposed project easy to manage with cheaper operational cost and most important was it should be able to operate from small air fields, he added.
Speaking on the LCA Tejas, he said by end of March Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) would deliver two Tejas to Indian Air Force. Next year six more LCA would be delivered. He said the Indian Navy has also placed orders to procure Tejas. He said they were also trying to develop a more powerful engine that would power the second variant Tejas Mark II, which may take few more years. "Our team is also making efforts to prepare indigenous mature engines for our LCA, which may take another five to six years. As the Tejas is a single engine aircraft, no chances can be taken," he said.
He said radar was incorporated in the Tejas to serve as jamming equipment and anti-jamming equipment to dodge the enemy. "We want to reduce the radar signature of the Tejas as much as possible," he said. Apart from it, the Tejas would be attached with precision guided missiles and bombs.
Speaking on the state of infrastructure for research and development in aviation in India, Dr. Harinarayana said it was on par with countries of Europe but yet to reach the standards of United States of America (USA), which has mastered stealth technology. "Our next generation aircraft may have stealth technology," he said.
 

ladder

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So, 2 Tejas in FY 13-14 and 6 Tejas in FY 14-15.

But, SP-1 and SP-2 will not be inducted into squadron service.

So, SP-3 onward which will be delivered in FY 14-15 shall see squadron service.
 
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Twinblade

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But, SP-1 and SP-2 will not be inducted into squadron service.
Actually no, the SP-1 and SP-2 would have been sent to the ASTE had their parameters were not in compliance with the IOC-2 standard. However that is yet to be seen. As of now the SP-1 is progressing with nil deviations.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd Chairman R K Tyagi said the production activities at the company's Light Combat Aircraft (Production Group) unit are pacing ahead as per the plan. "The project progress is being monitored on a daily basis now. We have completed the wings of the first series production (SP-1) aircraft and it has come out with nil deviations," Tyagi said.
Tejas to Begin High-altitude Trials in Leh - The New Indian Express
 

ersakthivel

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@ersakthivel

as of my understanding tejas in the air only 45min with internal fuel ..if we add payloads the range decreases ..So it's mission is go beyond 300KM bomb and return to base immediately
There are reports that the 1200 liter centerline external fuel tank is still not qualified for certification on tejas,

Could this be the reason for the lower ferry range of 1700 Km and combat radius ?

May be once they qualify it and put it on tejas mk-1, Is there any chance the ferry range will go up close to 3000 Km like grippen C/D and will it also result in increase in combat range and radius?

Because your BR discussion also metioned the ferry range only with 1200 and 800 liter under wing external tank,

Or may be the hot and humid condition in india plays a role in reduction of ferry range and combat range of tejas mk-1 compared to grippen C/D?

So please ask and get clarification,

What is your thought on this one?
 
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Twinblade

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Post By indranilroy in BR answers my Question about Range





see that 1700KM range with 1200ltr Drop Tanks ..by 800 km Speed it can stay in the Air for 2 hours
That 1700 Km range is the ferry range and cannot be with two 1200 liter drop tanks. Why ? Because Gripen-C's ferry range on internal fuel alone is 1800km. Same for Jf-17. The 1700 km with drop tanks is an error by flight global because the IOC press release did not say so. The only way it is getting half the range of it's contempraries is if it is flying with a brick wall. As far as centerline tank is concerned, one of the guys at AFM forum gave chaiwalla info that it is due to ground clearance issues that 1200 liter tank cannot be integrated on the centerline. How authentic is that info, we'll wait and see.
 
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SajeevJino

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.

Thanks for the replies and Clarification both @ersakthivel and @Twinblade


Ok ..and About the Fuel tank Matter ..Can tejas do this like the Below Picture ..carrying two Fuel tanks on it's 3rd and 5th Wing Is they are 1200 ltrs or 800 ltr Tanks

In this below Picture see the Drop Tanks size and How can we Identify them as 1200ltr or 800 ltr tanks ..as of my understandings through ..the curved end is like 1200ltr tank .


 
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Twinblade

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Ok ..and About the Fuel tank Matter ..Can tejas do this like the Below Picture ..carrying two Fuel tanks on it's 3rd and 5th Wing Is they are 1200 ltrs or 800 ltr Tanks
Only 1200 litre tanks have been certified so far. Tejas has only three wet points.
 

SajeevJino

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Only 1200 litre tanks have been certified so far. Tejas has only three wet points.
Please tell me ...In the Above Picture these are all 1200Ltr tanks or 800ltr Tanks

I thinks in the First Photo It's 1200Ltr Tank ..and Below Poster Photo Tejas have 800 ltr Tanks ..

Is it correct
 
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