ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Dazzler]

Before DRFM, the preferred way of jamming was to flood a frequency or band with with noise to deny the radar or seeker return data. Modern missile seekers have modes built into them that will simply lock on to the jamming signals.

Home On Jam or HOJ is their trick to cheat some jammers, not more modern ones such as SFIRC etc..

 

[CuriousBen]

What is AAP got to do with tejas? And what is the meaning of this post?

Mine was just a wishful thing as I said. However to complete the above , few points below.

1. You technical insight is very sound.
2. You knowledge on the economical advantages of the Tejas makes convincing argument.
3. Would you agree that there is a big loss due to expensive foreign deals , coupled with the fact that there is too much corruption at the top in defence?
If you do agree, then would you like to take your arguments favoring tejas at a national stage ( as people in India are blind about defence and all thing army and airforce are uncorrupted ) and challenge the corrupt forces to be ?
I see you make a difference in this forum , therefore are you willing to make a difference by bringing the fact to a national audience , whether editorial or by political awareness ?
Or would you be content to be the undisputed champion in this forum ?

 

[ersakthivel]

Mine was just a wishful thing as I said. However to complete the above , few points below.

1. You technical insight is very sound.
2. You knowledge on the economical advantages of the Tejas makes convincing argument.
3. Would you agree that there is a big loss due to expensive foreign deals , coupled with the fact that there is too much corruption at the top in defence?
If you do agree, then would you like to take your arguments favoring tejas at a national stage ( as people in India are blind about defence and all thing army and airforce are uncorrupted ) and challenge the corrupt forces to be ?
I see you make a difference in this forum , therefore are you willing to make a difference by bringing the fact to a national audience , whether editorial or by political awareness ?
Or would you be content to be the undisputed champion in this forum ?

Corruption in defence deals is a world wide phenomenon, so no point in talking about it with respect to tejas alone.

If the forex outgo compensates for the cutting edge capacity the platform brings there is nothing wrong with spending it'

like PAKFA which will counter the J-20 threat in the immediate future.

But reducing tejas mk-2 numbers for RAFALE does not bring such advantage for the huge cost involved ,

is the reason I support more tejas numbers in IAF.

I hope as IAF sees more of tejas in the coming days perception may change for the better with respect to tejas if al the test pilot claims are true.

But before that so much bad press was given to this project that's why I commented on few articles which were written with very poor technical perspective, nothing else

 

[ersakthivel]

I have to say, @ersakthivel made an excellent comeback. Good one.

This is what a debate should look like. Counter the points, instead of sitting on the fence and pointing fingers.

It is always interesting if we counter the arguments with some friendly banter in place of persistent personal abuse.

We all come here to learn and relax at the same time. So no point in taking stuff too seriously.It spoils the fun of visiting the forum.

But in the past I too have to indulge in heavy personal abuse as most of the attacks on me were so unfair as I felt, and beyond all known bounds of decency and even racist at times,

but that phase is past . And every one learns to takes the rough with the smooth with the passage of time.

PS-The rough with the smooth part --- I saw it on TV in an old MRF ad. So I have to make a note of it here. otherwise anonymouse will catch me red handed!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018' - The New Indian Express

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The work on the design of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) that began nearly 20 years back had culminated in developing vehicles using indigenous technology and the first batch of 40 such aircraft would be ready for defence utilization by the year 2017.

The Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) would manufacture four vehicles this year, eight by next year and sixteen each in the following two years, Tamilmani added.

With the advent of communication and automation technology, system engineering and other tools, the message to the world community is: 'India can build new-state-of-art aerospace technology products and is ready for competition.'

Tamilmani said each of the LCA would be built at an estimated cost of `200 crore and these aircraft would be subjected to around 14,000 failure simulation conditions, to test the efficacy of the technology before they were deployed


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[jmj_overlord]

Tamilmani said each of the LCA would be built at an estimated cost of `200 crore and these aircraft would be subjected to around 14,000 failure simulation conditions, to test the efficacy of the technology before they were deployed

the difference in quality between chinese and indian products........ :thumb:

 

[Punya Pratap]

Dear ersakthivel

I appreciate the strong pitch you make for Tejas and realise we really need to promote our own defence products. I also agree with your reasoning in regard to the Su-30 MKI and Tejas mix force for IAF and how more Rafael curtail our national defence growth but please tell me what do you suggest be used as a replacement for Jags and the Mig-27's??
MKI's can be made into bomb trucks but they can be detected from a long way off if you use them as a replacement, and Tejas is best suited for CAS role (no offence meant for all the multirole tag being tooted) IF at all we end up with a war with China than their ploy will be to overwhelm our MKI's with mass both in fighters and SAM's so you need a potent dedicated Air to Ground delivery system like Rafael. Having said that I also agree the cost is way too much to overlook!
I also understand that if we really need to spend the dollars than FGFA is the best way to go but with Ivan playing tough we have to go to Closseau! However I dont have that much faith in HAL or ADA deliverying AMCA on time and personally speaking I d rather see AMCA take the role that we envision for Rafael but that is wishful thinking knowing the HAL/ADA delivery track record!

 

[CuriousBen]

Corruption in defence deals is a world wide phenomenon, so no point in talking about it with respect to tejas alone.

If the forex outgo compensates for the cutting edge capacity the platform brings there is nothing wrong with spending it'

like PAKFA which will counter the J-20 threat in the immediate future.

But reducing tejas mk-2 numbers for RAFALE does not bring such advantage for the huge cost involved ,

is the reason I support more tejas numbers in IAF.

I hope as IAF sees more of tejas in the coming days perception may change for the better with respect to tejas if al the test pilot claims are true.

But before that so much bad press was given to this project that's why I commented on few articles which were written with very poor technical perspective, nothing else

Giving feedback to articles is one thing and giving a full blown in-depth analysis is another thing.The latter is much influential.

Corruption in India is worse off as compared to any other country . I need not say more about it.
Also

Corruption in defence deals is a world wide phenomenon, so no point in talking about it with respect to tejas alone.

In a way hints at indifferent attitude.

PAKFA - ok fair enough , let the forex outgo.

RAFALE - no.
If we can save the country at least 10 billion dollars ( more by means of educating the public ) , would it not help ?

I do support the TEJAS as vehemently as anyone.

I hope as IAF sees more of tejas in the coming days perception may change for the better with respect to tejas if al the test pilot claims are true

Why such lack of confidence if you are convinced.
Why is there an "if" ..... If there is still an "if" then let the product prove itself in a comparative trial - as I had suggested earlier.

Ajai Shukla made an influence by reporting in his blog about the tejas ( where pointedly made a reference that tejas equals any other aircraft in IAF's arsenal ). So did Shiv Aroor when he mentioned that the IAF was content in 2013 unlike 2011.

Can you answer this question that I am repeating.
I see you are well informed make a difference in this forum , therefore are you willing to make a difference by bringing the fact to a national audience , whether editorial or by political awareness ?
Or would you be content to be the undisputed champion in this forum ?
:thumb:

 

[CuriousBen]

Dear ersakthivel
However I dont have that much faith in HAL or ADA deliverying AMCA on time and personally speaking I d rather see AMCA take the role that we envision for Rafael but that is wishful thinking knowing the HAL/ADA delivery track record!

Recently a scientist / engineer confessed that they underestimated the development of LCA navy.
I found it naive that HAL / ADA had not planned it correctly in first place and underestimated the challenges. It sounded so unprofessional and thus no one would every trust HAL/ ADA if they make a prediction .
It seems the only way people in HAL/ ADA will work is "under pressure" where the great "Indian Jugaad" always comes in to the rescue.
People in HAL/ADA have not evolved a refined process in production technology since generations and have not done anything innovative but merely assembling aircraft's since ages.
The mig 21 are working somehow as the IAF is doing the same thing..." meticulously maintaining the aircraft with jugaad" .
But at what cost , after more than a 100 pilots died in the 1990's and reactively when the media created an uproar , then only the IAF took countermeasures. Reactively the IAF grounded the fleet . Then they made a policy to have half the fleet grounded and the other half maintained very stringently.
It makes sense for the media to create an uproar in the context of TEJAS also, else I pray that corrupt powers to be would not halal tejas to death .

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Long journey to the sky

It has been 30 years in the making, has cost Rs.172.69 billion, and will easily take another year if not more to clear the last lap. Tejas, the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd-manufactured Light Combat Aircraft that received its second "initial operational clearance" — it got the first IOC in January 2011 — and was inducted into the Indian Air Force last month, is meant to replace the ageing fleet of MiG21s and MiG27s. But that goal is still some years away. First, the aircraft needs to get its Final Operational Clearance. The IOC certifies that the aircraft can fly, the FOC that it can fight. In order to be certified as an operational fighter, the LCA, developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency, must undergo intensive trials of its weapons systems; the Air Force also wants it to be fitted with air-to-air refuelling capability. Going by the track record of the LCA project, all this could take the deadline for the FOC from December 2014 to mid-2015. Then too, the payload and agility of the Tejas will not match the IAF's expectations.

The supersonic LCA's General Electric F404 engine — an indigenously developed engine did not quite cut it — will allow only short-range missiles and laser-guided 500-kg bombs, less weaponry than was originally budgeted for. The limited thrust of the engine will also curtail its agility. The IAF will have two squadrons of the LCA, that is, 40 planes including eight trainer craft. HAL hopes to roll them out fast enough for the first squadron to be in place by 2016. But what the IAF is waiting for is Tejas Mark II, which is to be equipped with the more powerful GE 414 engine. For that, however, the aircraft may need to be re-engineered, and the process could well take another 10 years or more.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony has said that India could eventually have 200 Tejas aircraft, mostly for the Air Force and some for the Navy. At nine tons, it is said to be the lightest in its category of fighter planes. The ADA says the Tejas Mark 1 is better than its contemporaries, such as the French Mirage 2000, the U.S. F-16 and the Swedish Gripen. Moreover, it has not met with a single accident during trials. But perhaps its greatest advantage is that at Rs.180 crore apiece, its cost is just one third that of similar aircraft even though more than a third of its parts, including the engine, are imported. Its operational costs too will be lower.

Tejas is also a brave effort to break the monopoly of a select few in making fighter jets. It travels at least part of the way towards the goal of indigenisation of military hardware, and has provided India with valuable experience, that can be put to good use for the development of the planned fifth generation fighter aircraft and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/long-journey-to-the-sky/article5542125.ece

 

[brahmastra11]

I wonder, when will these reporters come out of 30 years syndrome.. Why cant they study development phase and history before writing false figures.

Long journey to the sky

It has been 30 years in the making, has cost Rs.172.69 billion, and will easily take another year if not more to clear the last lap. Tejas, the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd-manufactured Light Combat Aircraft that received its second "initial operational clearance" — it got the first IOC in January 2011 — and was inducted into the Indian Air Force last month, is meant to replace the ageing fleet of MiG21s and MiG27s. But that goal is still some years away. First, the aircraft needs to get its Final Operational Clearance. The IOC certifies that the aircraft can fly, the FOC that it can fight. In order to be certified as an operational fighter, the LCA, developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency, must undergo intensive trials of its weapons systems; the Air Force also wants it to be fitted with air-to-air refuelling capability. Going by the track record of the LCA project, all this could take the deadline for the FOC from December 2014 to mid-2015. Then too, the payload and agility of the Tejas will not match the IAF's expectations.

The supersonic LCA's General Electric F404 engine — an indigenously developed engine did not quite cut it — will allow only short-range missiles and laser-guided 500-kg bombs, less weaponry than was originally budgeted for. The limited thrust of the engine will also curtail its agility. The IAF will have two squadrons of the LCA, that is, 40 planes including eight trainer craft. HAL hopes to roll them out fast enough for the first squadron to be in place by 2016. But what the IAF is waiting for is Tejas Mark II, which is to be equipped with the more powerful GE 414 engine. For that, however, the aircraft may need to be re-engineered, and the process could well take another 10 years or more.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony has said that India could eventually have 200 Tejas aircraft, mostly for the Air Force and some for the Navy. At nine tons, it is said to be the lightest in its category of fighter planes. The ADA says the Tejas Mark 1 is better than its contemporaries, such as the French Mirage 2000, the U.S. F-16 and the Swedish Gripen. Moreover, it has not met with a single accident during trials. But perhaps its greatest advantage is that at Rs.180 crore apiece, its cost is just one third that of similar aircraft even though more than a third of its parts, including the engine, are imported. Its operational costs too will be lower.

Tejas is also a brave effort to break the monopoly of a select few in making fighter jets. It travels at least part of the way towards the goal of indigenisation of military hardware, and has provided India with valuable experience, that can be put to good use for the development of the planned fifth generation fighter aircraft and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft.

Long journey to the sky - The Hindu

 

[brahmastra11]

Very good tribute to ersakthivel efforts adding, this eye-opener analysis on Tejas should not restrict to DFI.. National uproar is required to make Tejas and Arjun a success like Mig-21.

Giving feedback to articles is one thing and giving a full blown in-depth analysis is another thing.The latter is much influential.

Corruption in India is worse off as compared to any other country . I need not say more about it.
Also

In a way hints at indifferent attitude.

PAKFA - ok fair enough , let the forex outgo.

RAFALE - no.
If we can save the country at least 10 billion dollars ( more by means of educating the public ) , would it not help ?

I do support the TEJAS as vehemently as anyone.


Why such lack of confidence if you are convinced.
Why is there an "if" ..... If there is still an "if" then let the product prove itself in a comparative trial - as I had suggested earlier.

Ajai Shukla made an influence by reporting in his blog about the tejas ( where pointedly made a reference that tejas equals any other aircraft in IAF's arsenal ). So did Shiv Aroor when he mentioned that the IAF was content in 2013 unlike 2011.

Can you answer this question that I am repeating.
I see you are well informed make a difference in this forum , therefore are you willing to make a difference by bringing the fact to a national audience , whether editorial or by political awareness ?
Or would you be content to be the undisputed champion in this forum ?
:thumb:

 

[pmaitra]

. . . and Tejas is best suited for CAS role (no offence meant for all the multirole tag being tooted). . .

I will have to disagree with that. An ideal aircraft for CAS role would have straighter and longer wings and shorter fuselage, and will certainly not be a delta wing or naturally unstable, like HAL LCA.

In relative terms of ratio:
Wide wings, short fuselage: more roll stability
Short wings, long fuselage: more pitch stability

Between MiG-21 (high altitutde interceptor) and Sukhoi-25 (CAS), which one is closer to HAL LCA? That should clarify everything.

 

[makmohan]

THE STORY OF THE HARRIER - YouTube

Interesting video on VTOL aircrafts evolution, take a look @2:35 Ryan X-13 Vertijet .. it has a similar structure of Tejas.. can tejas be prototyped for these kind of experiments ??

 

[tramp]

This is one of my most favorite threads where the debate has all through been dignified and has maintained a certain standard. Kudos to all participants.

 

[Patriot]

Wishful thinking.
Is there a possibility that this information can be shared on national televsion for e.g. ndtv on programs such as big fight ? ndtv had in th past carried out a documentary about LCH and how it had changed the tactical battle in jammu and kashmir by having night fighting capabilities.

For the sake of argument lets assume that AAP does have a chance.
If at all Aam Aadmi party is serious about eradication corruption from defence then such information might give them enough fodder to think, so they might take lca to the next logical milestone earlier than planned and stop wasteful expenditure.
AAP is poor in terms of defence awareness at the moment, and so it would make sense if knowlegdable member of the forum can make the party aware.
I say wishful thinking because the party does not realize how much loss the country suffers by importing stuff.
Also Arvind Kejriwal j, with all due respect , make a self - defeatist comment , that we will make India - " sone ki chidiya" . .....
why not a "PLATINUM KA BAAZ/garud" , whereby no one show the eye , for India like Israel is lives in a domestic neighboorhood.

However , what will get the confidence of all would be a comparative exercise between Tejas and present aircraft of IAF, just like it was done between Arjun and T90.
If the product speaks for itself then whats to worry about.?

Mate this is not political thread. So please do not spoil it. We have plenty AAP miracle promotional threads. You may also open new thread as DFI gives one liberty to have new thread for specific discussions in political forum.

 

[tramp]

Let us please keep the thread apolitical.. more of a discussion of Tejas as a defense capability booster.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Pmaitra,

I understand your point of view but given the fact that Tejas cannot "stay on station" for long and it cannot carry enough weapons either I will have to say it is at best a CAS role for Tejas mk I. Lets see what we get from mk II when it roles out in the skin and not just claims from HAL/ADA

 

[Abhi9]

Calendar 2014

 

[Abhi9]