ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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ersakthivel

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So, if Rafale does not offers enough bang for the buck, why has the IAF chosen it over all other options available to it ? Surely, the IAF folks know a little bit about aviation (if not much) & not all of them are a total nutcase or corrupt.
Mystery is all that i can say

You get 5 times more ASEA radars, 5 times more EW suits and 3 times more weapon load up in the air for the same price with the almost the same close combat performance with 600 tejas mk-2 in place of 126 RAAFLEs.

tejas mk-2 will have a top speed of mach 2 plus. but RAFALE has a top speed of just mach 1.8.

other than spectra EW suit RAFALE fleet will hold no advantage over the tejas mk-2 fleet for the same costs if tejas mk-2 comes anywhere around 40 million dollars.

, since tejas mk-2 will have more or less the same TWR as RAAFLE and even lower wing loading than RAFALE there won't be much difference in close combat either.

If you think that one enemy fighter has to face 5 tejas mk-2s in place of one RAAFLE it is a devastating array of fire power in the air for IAF to completely dominate the skies over south asia hands down.

But IAF is fixated on 126 RAFALES which willconsiderably reduce our bargain power with Sukhoi when we buy FGFA from them,

With the high price quoted RAFALE already lost the Brazil contract.

Surely Sukhoi will ask ask an inconvenient question , if you can pay 120 plus million for 4.5th gn RAFALE which has no internal weapon carriage and inferiro to FGFA in every parameter ,which was already stated by an IAF official in one of the reports in the press.

why don't you pay me double for FGFA which has so much more potential than RAFALE?
 
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Kunal Biswas

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It does offer that, But not logical in case of India to go for it now ..

Keep Rafale topic aside ..

So, if Rafale does not offers enough bang for the buck, why has the IAF chosen it over all other options available to it ? Surely, the IAF folks know a little bit about aviation (if not much) & not all of them are a total nutcase or corrupt.
Mystery is all that i can say
 

pankaj nema

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With the high price quoted RAFALE already lost the Brazil contract.
Brazil has selected SAAB Gripen over F 18 because of political reasons

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25441231#story_continues_1

They have an ongoing fued with USA over the snooping scandal

And with France they were asking for the designs of Baracuda N submarines

while the Brazilians were placing much smaller order of 36 planes instead of the Indian order of 180 planes

Naturally The French refused
 
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pankaj nema

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@ersakhtivel @p2prada

please explain this paragraph

The nose cone radome of Tejas is another part that is expected to get a re-look. "Now the radome is made of composite materials and we will change it to quartz. Today we are getting a radar range of 45-50 km and we need to improve the same to 80-plus km with the new material," the official said.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence
 
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Defcon 1

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@ersakhtivel @p2prada

please explain this paragraph

The nose cone radome of Tejas is another part that is expected to get a re-look. "Now the radome is made of composite materials and we will change it to quartz. Today we are getting a radar range of 45-50 km and we need to improve the same to 80-plus km with the new material," the official said.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence
Oh dear. A radome is the cone which forms the nose and covers the radar, google for pics if you want more clarity. Radar is inside the radome. So radar's electromagnetic waves have to pass through the radome and then back to get signals to the fighter's computer. If the radome is made up of a material that absorbs or reflects a significant portion of radar waves, the power of waves that manages to get outside the radome will be quite less. Because of lesser power, the radar waves will only be able to scan a smaller area. It will become even further less when the radar waves come back after hitting the target and enter the radome again to be received by the receiver. Hence the fighters computer will be able to recognize adversaries in even smaller area, since the signal has weakened further. Right now the radome is made of composites which is absorbing a significant portion of radar waves and causing this problem. It has to be changed to quartz which has lower dielectric constant and hence absorbs lesser portion of radar waves. Thus by, making the radome more permissive, the range of radar can be increased automatically.
 
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pankaj nema

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@Defcon 1 Very many Thanks

But please answer another question :namaste:

The tejas MMR ( Elta 2032 Hybrid ) is supposed to have a range of 150 km
in air to air mode

And here it is written 45 -50 km

So is there a mistake in this article OR

our existing radome is so bad that we can get a range of only 45 -50 km and even after
replacing it with quartz we would get a range of only 80 KM
 
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Defcon 1

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@Defcon 1 Very many Thanks

But please answer another question :namaste:

The tejas MMR ( Elta 2032 Hybrid ) is supposed to have a range of 150 km
in air to air mode

And here it is written 45 -50 km

So is there a mistake in this article OR

our existing radome so bad that we can get a range of only 45 -50 km and even after
replacing it with quartz we would get a range of 80 KM
I don't know where you are getting the 150 km range from, but that is incorrect.

Yes it basically means that our existing radome is so bad that we are getting lesser range. After replacing the radome material, we will get 80 km range.

The easiest way to understand that statement is that "The current range of radar is 50 km for RCS X and it will be increased to 80 km for the same RCS X". That 150 km (even if true) figure is not for RCS X, its for RCS Y, where Y>X. So you cannot compare 80 and 150 km range. I mean you do understand that radar ranges depend on the RCS of adversary.
 
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ersakthivel

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Brazil has selected SAAB Gripen over F 18 because of political reasons

BBC News - Saab wins $4.5bn Brazil fighter jet contract

They have an ongoing fued with USA over the snooping scandal

And with France they were asking for the designs of Baracuda N submarines

while the Brazilians were placing much smaller order of 36 planes instead of the Indian order of 180 planes

Naturally The French refused
Most of Grippen's missiles , avionics and engines are from US.
 

Defcon 1

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@p2prada

ADA wants an alternate engine for mk2. Probably for export? Can K10 be completed in time
 
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ersakthivel

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@Defcon 1 Very many Thanks

But please answer another question :namaste:

The tejas MMR ( Elta 2032 Hybrid ) is supposed to have a range of 150 km
in air to air mode

And here it is written 45 -50 km

So is there a mistake in this article OR

our existing radome is so bad that we can get a range of only 45 -50 km and even after
replacing it with quartz we would get a range of only 80 KM
IMHO The reason 80 plus range was quoted by DG was the max range of present long range BVR of tejas Derby is about 80 Km.Thats why he said 80 plus with no upper limit.

Same with mach 1.4 with no upper limit and AOA 24 with no upper limit for speed and AOA specs.

Upper limits will be known only after FOC when every thing is finished.

antenna dia and power output determines the radar range,

here tejas's 650 mm antenna dia and 10 Kw peak power output is higher than that of Grippen's 600 mm antenna dia and 8 kw max power out put.

So there is no way the detection range for tejas radar is going to be less than that of a 600 mm antenna dia radar,

What is evident is the present composite composition of tejas nose cone significantly interferes with the radar wave transmission and receivers of the tejas radar.

That is why we get the figure of 45 Km.

If we change it to quartz we will get a better range.

Competent people to comment about this are the LRDE personnel who made the radar in JV with Israel.

So this interference of composite material of the present nose cone has nothing to do with radar range.

SInce tejas mk-1 has 10 percent more radome dia and ten percent more peak power output than grippen there is no way it is going to have lower range than Grippen which advertises a tracking range of 120 Km for fighter sized target.

Once we get confirmation about the peak power output of tejas radar and radome dia from specs list you can easily understand this.
 
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ersakthivel

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I don't know where you are getting the 150 km range from, but that is incorrect.

Yes it basically means that our existing radome is so bad that we are getting lesser range. After replacing the radome material, we will get 80 km range.

The easiest way to understand that statement is that "The current range of radar is 50 km for RCS X and it will be increased to 80 km for the same RCS X". That 150 km (even if true) figure is not for RCS X, its for RCS Y, where Y>X. So you cannot compare 80 and 150 km range. I mean you do understand that radar ranges depend on the RCS of adversary.
80 plus is what the DG said.

Only LRDE personnel can make an accurate comment on range of tejas radar
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Tejas battle-ready for testing by Indian Air Force pilots

Bangalore: World's lightest and India developed supersonic fighter Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is battle-ready for testing by its air force pilots three decades after it was conceived, designed and developed with cost overruns and inordinate delays.

"The home-grown aircraft is ready for flight tests by Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots to assess its air prowess and strike power," state-run Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) director PS Subramanian told a news agency ahead of its initial operational clearance (IOC) Friday here.

Outgoing Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne will receive a 500-page 'release to service' document the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (Cemilac) has compiled as a proof of the fourth generation fighter's strike capabilities.

"The aircraft has a unique record of being accident or incident-free during its 2,400-odd test flights for over 3,000 hours since its maiden sortie as a technology demonstrator in 2001 and subsequently as eight prototype versions," an upbeat Subramanian claimed.

Defence Minister AK Antony, his scientific advisor and state-run Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) Director General Avinash Chander and senior officials will watch the fighter's awesome skills, including its daring manoeuvres in battlefield.

"The air force pilots will take charge of the multirole aircraft after our test pilots demonstrate its air worthiness in all dimensions and fly the weaponised versions to evaluate its combat capability over the next 12 months for final operational clearance (FOC) and induction into the IAF fleet as squadrons," Subramanian asserted.

For the IOC and FOC, the air force fighter pilots will fly the fully equipped aircraft to assess its battle readiness, including its ability to fire all types of weapons and systems ranging from guns, laser-guided bombs, rockets to beyond visual range missiles with greater angle of attack in 20-22 degrees.

The fully weaponised Tejas will be part of the series production the defence behemoth (HAL) has taken up to rollout the first 20 aircraft for IOC and another 20 for FOC. They will form the first two LCA squadrons for induction from 2015 onwards and will be based at the Coimbatore air force station in southern Tamil Nadu.

"All weapons and systems, including bombs and missiles have been tested in strike mode and targets were bombarded with precision. The aircraft was also flown at a maximum speed of 1.4 Mach and in all-weather conditions at high altitudes and low temperatures," Subramanian pointed out.

The fighter Dec 7 showed its combat capability by firing an infrared seeking air-to-air missile to hit a specified target with precision in the Arabian Sea off the Goan coast.

The Indian fighter, however, will have an 'American heart', as it is fitted with a GE 404 aero-engine of the US-based General Electric (GE) Aviation because the indigenous Kaveri engine designed and developed by the state-run Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is yet to qualify for certification.

"The first two batches of LCA (Mark I) comprising 40 aircraft the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) roll out will have GE 404 afterburner engine. Subsequently, they will be replaced with GE 414 advanced version engine if the fighter goes into full production, as the requirement of the IAF is estimated to be about 200," a DRDO official said.

The naval variant of the metal bird for the Indian Navy will also have GE aero engines.

As is a single engine, light weight, agile, multi-role fighter, Tejas has quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system with associated advanced flight control laws.

"We plan to initially produce eight aircraft per year and double its production to 16 per year subsequently as we are gearing up to meet the delivery schedules," HAL chairman R.K. Tyagi said in a statement here Thursday.

Flight trials of the fighter were carried out at Leh, Jamnagar, Jaisalmer, Uttaralai, Gwalior, Pathankot and Goa for cold weather, armament and weapon deliveries, multimode radar, radar warning receiver, hot weather and missile firing over the last decade.

"Two aircraft have flown three sorties each on the same day during trials at Jamnagar in October-November 2013, demonstrating fast turnaround time capability," Tyagi noted.

"A structural assembly hangar has been set up in our complex and jigs calibrated with laser trackers to meet the stringent quality standards...," Tyagi pointed out.

Though defence agencies involved in the three decades old ambitious project declined to specify the cumulative amount spent on the design and development of the LCA, it is estimated that the fighter had cost the exchequer a whopping Rs 24,000 crore since 1983.

Tejas battle-ready for testing by Indian Air Force pilots
 

Defcon 1

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16 LCA per annum official now.

Another important thing to gleam from the article

"Two aircraft have flown three sorties each on the same day during trials at Jamnagar in October-November 2013, demonstrating fast turnaround time capability,"
In mid 2012, a few days before the grounding of Tejas, there was an instance when 14 test flights of Tejas took place in a single day, and there was one particular prototype or LSP which flew 7 times in a single day alone. This was discussed at BR as well and was shown as a proof of its low turnaround time.

But now, it seems that turnaround is limited to 3 sorties per day. maybe the information on the website was a glitch and the turnaround time for Tejas is much higher than I initially thought it to be.
 
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