ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[shom]

Hi im not afraid of consequence or being permanently blocked , talking about personal attack u MODS & Seniors show double standards in the same thread i was victim of personal attack by , see below but those post are still alive what ever i have posted in retaliation is been deleted

Now im not even able to report those & u people teach me to be civilised , see i have asked Mods to Block this ID permanently for which they have not replied . if u can block pls do so I don't to continue any more

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...mpletion-pakistan-tajikistan-road-link-3.html

1. Im sorry are they referring to LCA MK1 Airforce or Whole project includeing Naval LCA & Tejas MK2 ?
Sam2012 ↑
You have started your own thread of "Delays in DRDO projects" and threatening to dive deeper even without knowing this!!!!!
1. Haan ok very ambitious , if they complete before 2015 nothing like that for whole nation it will be a proud moment

But only 2years fixing issues in Naval LCA & prototype production , test flow of LCA Mk2 very difficult task , but anyways all the best ADA/HAL
Sam2012 ↑
It will be a proud moment , whenever it is completed. Regardless of any date for completion , a separate production line is being established for Tejas by HAl and serial production is about to start.All design teams for mk-1 are wound up and work is only on mk-2 and AMCA as per some reports.LSP-7,8 is almost the production version to be handed over to IAF.

How did you determine"test flow !!!!! of tejas mk-2 will be very difficult?"

Will it take great many men to push it off the runway?

Hey man chill be in the thread's topic dont get annoyed by any reason and if u get annoyed give answers in a manner which is diplomatic and suited,,, dont destroy ur name,,,, This not the part of the world where showing of ur extravagant anger wud give results ,,, so calm down ,,,, its a request,,,,mate

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The RCS of Tejas MK-1 is classified to my knowladge ..

But Tejas use Anti-radar paint also the bird is almost made of composites making it further invisible to radar waves compare to metal body air-crafts..

 

[shom]

The RCS of Tejas MK-1 is classified to my knowladge ..

But Tejas use Anti-radar paint also the bird is almost made of composites making it further invisible to radar waves compare to metal body air-crafts..

I got the RCS of tejas from a website though it was estimated ,, I have quoted that also but what about RCS of Gripen?????????

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I dont have any data regarding Rcs .. :/

 

[Mariner HK]

The RCS of Tejas MK-1 is classified to my knowladge ..

But Tejas use Anti-radar paint also the bird is almost made of composites making it further invisible to radar waves compare to metal body air-crafts..

agreed as far as i know rcs of tejas is not less. @shom said it is .6 m^2 which i think its imposible ..its is rcs of Rafale at .2 - .... Sure its not that small. its s not stealth fighter. ADA and drdo told about Stealth Tejas with less rcs in near future(drdo language some 2020) But it is very possible and great move if we can pull stealth tejas ...Giving its size and multi role with stealth its the best we ll have .... Just we need is stealth coating paint and few modification

 

[shom]

I dont have any data regarding Rcs .. :/

I also tried hard but cud not get one,,, but logic says that it wud have a lesser RCS than Gripen,,,,

 

[shom]

agreed as far as i know rcs of tejas is not less. @shom said it is .6 m^2 which i think its imposible ..its is rcs of Rafale at .2 - .... Sure its not that small. its s not stealth fighter. ADA and drdo told about Stealth Tejas with less rcs in near future(drdo language some 2020) But it is very possible and great move if we can pull stealth tejas ...Giving its size and multi role with stealth its the best we ll have .... Just we need is stealth coating paint and few modification

RCS of Rafale is in between 0.1 to 0.2 as I saw,,, but I need the RCS of Gripen,,,

 

[Mariner HK]

I got this figure ,, the RCS of Tejas is0.6m²
Courtesy:- http://www.------------------/forums/indian-air-force/93-lca-tejas-multirole-aircraft-60.html
But not getting the value of Grippen ,,, only senior members can help let me call for it @Kunal Biswas Da plzzz help,,,,,,,,

Sorry shom i dont think so. mig 21 are smaller but doesnt mean they have less rcs. Size does matter for somee aspect but its lot more than just size.Paint , design , radar anglng etc and many more .am not a aircraft expert but i know this for sure.
Super sukoi will have 1 m^2 rcs.. U know its a stealth bird..

 

[shom]

Yeahh I got it ,,, RCS of Gripen Jas 39 is 0.5 to 1 ,,,, as much as I have seen,,, here http://www.-----------/forums/air-warfare/20908-rcs-different-fighters.html
so we get 0.6 RCS and same aircraft with half of the cost,,,,

 

[Mariner HK]

RCS of Rafale is in between 0.1 to 0.2 as I saw,,, but I need the RCS of Gripen,,,

the Rafale's RCS is: 0.1~0.3 m2
However t
he Typhoons RCS is: 0.05~0.1 m2
Su 35 .5~1 m^2

 

[shom]

Sorry shom i dont think so. mig 21 are smaller but doesnt mean they have less rcs. Size does matter for somee aspect but its lot more than just size.Paint , design , radar anglng etc and many more .am not a aircraft expert but i know this for sure.
Super sukoi will have 1 m^2 rcs.. U know its a stealth bird..

Did I say anything about Mig 21???????? I was asking for the RCS of Gripen and I got it,,,

 

[shom]

the Rafale's RCS is: 0.1~0.3 m2
However t
he Typhoons RCS is: 0.05~0.1 m2
Su 35 .5~1 m^2

We are not talking about other planes,, it is all about Rafale ,, Gripen and Tejas,,, the RCS value of all 3 of them are given now on the thread plzz chck it ,,,,

 

[Mariner HK]

Did I say anything about Mig 21???????? I was asking for the RCS of Gripen and I got it,,,

ok.. i was trying to point out tat size of the plan alone wont reduce rcs.. U mentioned earlier tat tejas is smaller than gripen so it has less rcs... Sure tejas as less rcs but not as stealth as 4+ gen fighters.. like rafale
.. Thank u

 

[ersakthivel]

things are changing my friend.we cant develop kaveri in the past its not due to lack of technology or knowledge but due to corruption and miss managment ...lack of leadership... now its diffrent..When we can lauch to moon and mars this yeaR DO U THINK WE CANT COMEW UP WITH AC ENGINE? amca will have our own ingine... kaveri is not 100% failure its 70% success... 30 % will be rectified... drdo said it closed the project due to preasure from media and others in india.But kaveri to be intergted with Tejas mk1 for tests...Its massivly test flown in russia as well.. Kaveri engine is high tech than french engines ..It has composite meterials to decrease its weight..When it is tested success fully it will be up graded for future program like amca and older jets will be upgraded too... Aftwer all when it comes to invention Indians takes centrestage ...

Kaveri the k-9 version has achieved it's targeted dry thrust of 51 kn according to official info. There is a 10 percent shortfall in wet thrust target of 84 kn. It can be over come with the redesign of after burners. So for all practical purposes we have a working jet engine on our hands. And it has an engine thrust to weight to ratio of close to 7( wet thrust/engine weight(720/110 kg)). Roughly in the league of AL-31.

And it can be used to power AURA the stealth UCAV according to official sources. Also once single crystal blades tech is developed we can increase it's thrust better. The Ge series that started with Ge-404 which gave 80 kn wet thrust has now reached GE-414-EPE with 140 kn wet thrust in more than two decaxdes of development. I don't know why people are afraid of US sanctions any more!!.
All our defence tie ups with Israel are cleared by US including green pine radar and many sam projects.

We are buying billions and billions dollar worth of defence stuff from US. What will happen to the APACHEs if sanctions are to take effect? In reality there is no possibility of US sanctions on India even if we test another nuclear device. US realizes that India is needed for strategic entente in ASIA.This realization is bipartisan Obama who voiced his vociferous protests against INDO-US nuclear deal as an MP is just carrying through with Bush administrations policy of nuclear and strategic engagement with India.

Any way with in ten years a world class engine for AMCA will be available. So tejas can have it at it's engine change.

The only difference between GRIPPEN NG and Tejas mk-2 is a slick PR from the Sweedish firm that makes it. Tejas will have a lower RCS and higher dia asea radar than Grippen NG with the interfaces for the same meteor missile. then what is the difference?

Tejas was meant to be a short ranged high agility air to air fighter with secondary strike role. So within the normal fighting load and range tejas mk-2 will have comparable performance with any modern single engined fighter.

 

[Mariner HK]

Kaveri the k-9 version has achieved it's targeted dry thrust of 51 kn according to official info. There is a 10 percent shortfall in wet thrust target of 84 kn. It can be over come with the redesign of after burners. So for all practical purposes we have a working jet engine on our hands. And it has an engine thrust to weight to ratio of close to 7( wet thrust/engine weight(720/110 kg)). Roughly in the league of AL-31.

And it can be used to power AURA the stealth UCAV according to official sources. Also once single crystal blades tech is developed we can increase it's thrust better. The Ge series that started with Ge-404 which gave 80 kn wet thrust has now reached GE-414-EPE with 140 kn wet thrust in more than two decaxdes of development. I don't know why people are afraid of US sanctions any more!!.
All our defence tie ups with Israel are cleared by US including green pine radar and many sam projects.

We are buying billions and billions dollar worth of defence stuff from US. What will happen to the APACHEs if sanctions are to take effect? In reality there is no possibility of US sanctions on India even if we test another nuclear device. US realizes that India is needed for strategic entente in ASIA.This realization is bipartisan Obama who voiced his vociferous protests against INDO-US nuclear deal as an MP is just carrying through with Bush administrations policy of nuclear and strategic engagement with India.

Any way with in ten years a world class engine for AMCA will be available. So tejas can have it at it's engine change.

The only difference between GRIPPEN NG and Tejas mk-2 is a slick PR from the Sweedish firm that makes it. Tejas will have a lower RCS and higher dia asea radar than Grippen NG with the interfaces for the same meteor missile. then what is the difference?

Tejas was meant to be a short ranged high agility air to air fighter with secondary strike role. So within the normal fighting load and range tejas mk-2 will have comparable performance with any modern single engined fighter.

Another master piece by u dear bro.I been following ur post for long time now even before i became a member dfi. Respect.. And yes u r right...Amca will have better engine but am not sure it ll kaveri engine itself... The probles is with turbine blade itself. As far as i know we designed a complecated blade for it.Which many countries including france and russia dont want us to help. I ll be very happy if u can go futher and elobrate this concern of mine.

Many dont know one thing .That amount spent on kaveri engine is 20 times less than money sppent by usa for their engines..India need to know that its better to spent more on new research and development on areospace technology than buying ac and ac engine from forign companiiis. Same thing happend with tejas.It had very less money sanctioned to creat a new ac and time we taken will be rectified by faster production and advancement made in tejas and other products as well.

China just test fly a ac and it inducts it into airforce wthr its proven or not.As we all know pakistan does the same with their missile ...
Pakistan is the only nation with high success rate in missile technology hahaha... They assemble and test fire missile of north korea and china... Yet it falls million miles away from its target ...

Anyway with grt respect bro plz let me know the core issue facing kaveri,Its not about the KN output ..it has design flaws ...ll post a thread regarding kaveri..Which i collected few years back.. Thank u Sir

 

[ersakthivel]

Hi im not afraid of consequence or being permanently blocked , talking about personal attack u MODS & Seniors show double standards in the same thread i was victim of personal attack by , see below but those post are still alive what ever i have posted in retaliation is been deleted

Now im not even able to report those & u people teach me to be civilised , see i have asked Mods to Block this ID permanently for which they have not replied . if u can block pls do so I don't to continue any more

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...mpletion-pakistan-tajikistan-road-link-3.html

1. Im sorry are they referring to LCA MK1 Airforce or Whole project includeing Naval LCA & Tejas MK2 ?
Sam2012 ↑
You have started your own thread of "Delays in DRDO projects" and threatening to dive deeper even without knowing this!!!!!
1. Haan ok very ambitious , if they complete before 2015 nothing like that for whole nation it will be a proud moment

But only 2years fixing issues in Naval LCA & prototype production , test flow of LCA Mk2 very difficult task , but anyways all the best ADA/HAL
Sam2012 ↑
It will be a proud moment , whenever it is completed. Regardless of any date for completion , a separate production line is being established for Tejas by HAl and serial production is about to start.All design teams for mk-1 are wound up and work is only on mk-2 and AMCA as per some reports.LSP-7,8 is almost the production version to be handed over to IAF.

How did you determine"test flow !!!!! of tejas mk-2 will be very difficult?"

Will it take great many men to push it off the runway?

See before saying mk-2 will be very difficult , You should know what are the new engineering developments that will lead to it being very difficult.

let me answer you,in one word .NOTHING.Why? mk-2 is going to have the same wing shape, same wing loading, same avionics, same landing gear arrangement, mostly similar flight test points of mk-1 . it just has a 0.5 meter extra length fuselage with significantly more powerful engine.

Mk-1 was grounded through out the last year for fuel line leakages and HMD overshooting pilot seat . These problems won't stall mk-2 for another year as these issues are already resolved.The FCS that is going to be on mk-2 will be very similar to that of mk-1 , so it won't need ten years testing.

If mk-1 has done the hard work to clear AOA of 26 deg for five years , mk-2 will do it in much shorter time because it will be largely similar spec fighter with almost the same aerodynamic arrangement. Also if spin test validates some crucial test points on near stall or post stall behavior on mk-1 after years of sweating ,it will largely apply to mk-2 which has the same design principles.

All the trials evaluation and modification done for high altitude operation at LEH for mk-1 will available as ready made for mk-2.And no ASR changes or any significant request for action from IAf for mk-2, because now IAF clearly knows what is in store for them in mk-2.

Of course it is not going to be as easy as converting SUZUKI SWIFT into SUZUKI DESIRE. But since Tejas has almost acquired a finished product tag, ther won't be FSED phase of seven years and two TDs first approach taken for mk-1 and grueling 10 years of flight testing to validate brand new FCS of the aerodynamically unstable fighter.

I can go on and on. So when you say something like it will be very difficult for mk-2. you should give the reason for that. Just saying mk-1 did 30 years . So it will take very long for mk-2 is a pointless comment serving as flame bait. I went through much harsher treatment over hundreds of pages here without jumping up and down in the closed TEJAS -III thread.

Much more important is the LSPs of mk-2 will be churned out of the well established production line of mk-1. So it won't take years to build them for flight testing as we have seen with mk-1 LSP-7, LSp-8.As eight mk-1 are going to roll out every year production of tejas mk-2 LSPs for flight testing will be very quicker than mk-1.

How did you determine"test flow !!!!! of tejas mk-2 will be very difficult?"

Will it take great many men to push it off the runway?

that was a plain little sarcasm which was dished out to me here endless times., no personal attack. Any way if you are so piqued about that , I am ready to admit my mistake and say, I am sorry for that.
Here in this forum MODs are very relaxed.So don't worry.you are welcome to retort and debate.

 

[ersakthivel]

Another master piece by u dear bro.I been following ur post for long time now even before i became a member dfi. Respect.. And yes u r right...Amca will have better engine but am not sure it ll kaveri engine itself... The probles is with turbine blade itself. As far as i know we designed a complecated blade for it.Which many countries including france and russia dont want us to help. I ll be very happy if u can go futher and elobrate this concern of mine.

Many dont know one thing .That amount spent on kaveri engine is 20 times less than money sppent by usa for their engines..India need to know that its better to spent more on new research and development on areospace technology than buying ac and ac engine from forign companiiis. Same thing happend with tejas.It had very less money sanctioned to creat a new ac and time we taken will be rectified by faster production and advancement made in tejas and other products as well.

China just test fly a ac and it inducts it into airforce wthr its proven or not.As we all know pakistan does the same with their missile ...
Pakistan is the only nation with high success rate in missile technology hahaha... They assemble and test fire missile of north korea and china... Yet it falls million miles away from its target ...

Anyway with grt respect bro plz let me know the core issue facing kaveri,Its not about the KN output ..it has design flaws ...ll post a thread regarding kaveri..Which i collected few years back.. Thank u Sir

If you have any info on kaveri, you can post it on kaveri engine thread here in DFI.

 

[ersakthivel]

is there any official source for tejas RCS figures?

 

[shom]

is there any official source for tejas RCS figures?

No its classified but experts have there assumptions and I have quoted them,,,,,,,

 

[Mariner HK]

is there any official source for tejas RCS figures?

We cant get offical confermation on rcs of Tejas mk1 untill the final product emerges.but let me try with some old and new info i know so far..
Correct me if am wrong

TEJAS MK1 Tejas MK2MK2

EMPTY WEIGHT 5700 Kg 6200 Kgs
PAYLOAD 4000 Kgs 4500 Kgs
FUEL LOAD 3000 Kgs 3600 Kgs
HARD POINTS 7 8
THRUST 85 Kn (GEF404) 98 Kn (GEF414)
RANGE 800 Km ?
RADAR PESA AESA
Max Takeoff Weight 13500 Kgs 14500 Kgs
Top Speed 1.8 Mach 2.0 Mach
RCS 3.25 m^2 2.00 m^2 (defo not .6 m^2 claimed by some one in this thread. Even stealth super sukoi with special radar absorbing coating and some design change will have RCS of 1 m^2 )