ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[SpArK]

 

[p2prada]

by p2prada: The LCA Mk1 and Mk2 are not even ready to be deployed for combat. Until they get the 100% Go orders from high command, they are useless pieces of trash.

I am not talking about war. I am talking about validating the fighters through exercises. That's how it is done.

according to this line the F 16 was piece of trash when it went to combat in desert storm

See nothing is perfect. So, IAF cannot go to war with LCAs without proving them to be reliable first.

 

[SpArK]

IAF Chief's Wish Granted, HAL Declares LCA An Air Superiority Fighter ​

It gets more bizarre. At Monday's press conference in Bangalore, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik said he wished he had a fleet full of air superiority fighters (ASF), but the problem was funds -- here he made that unmistakable gesture rubbing his thumb and forefinger together to denote money. But if the acrimony over the Tejas's generation wasn't enough, what the Chief probably didn't know is that HAL has gone ahead and declared the LCA an air superiority fighter. See the placard above, which stood next to one of the static aircraft displays.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/iaf-chiefs-wish-granted-hal-declares.html

 

[black eagle]

IAF Chief's Wish Granted, HAL Declares LCA An Air Superiority Fighter ​

It gets more bizarre. At Monday's press conference in Bangalore, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik said he wished he had a fleet full of air superiority fighters (ASF), but the problem was funds -- here he made that unmistakable gesture rubbing his thumb and forefinger together to denote money. But if the acrimony over the Tejas's generation wasn't enough, what the Chief probably didn't know is that HAL has gone ahead and declared the LCA an air superiority fighter. See the placard above, which stood next to one of the static aircraft displays.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/iaf-chiefs-wish-granted-hal-declares.html

Now, that is funny.... really innovative way of fulfilling the ACM's wish...

 

[warriorextreme]

please HAL make AMCA a JV...

 

[nitesh]

I am not talking about war. I am talking about validating the fighters through exercises. That's how it is done.

Then how you declared it as piece of trash?

See nothing is perfect. So, IAF cannot go to war with LCAs without proving them to be reliable first.

Now this is new, how to prove plane is reliable?

 

[p2prada]

please HAL make AMCA a JV...

Will second that. We will need help in engines and signal emissions. Help in airframe etc will depend on how LCA Mk2 progresses. I am guessing EADS will be our best bet for JVs.

 

[black eagle]

Now this is new, how to prove plane is reliable?

Fly them, Mock air combats, exercises etc.. i think that's how you find out about a plane's capability...

 

[icecoolben]

All IAF wants in fourth generation and fifth generation stamps given my foreign vendors to their respective aircrafts, wait till u see a double decker grippen in an Indian medium fifth generation fighter aircraft competition. But HAL giving it could be unpalatable for Ac Naik. aren't we over the ages of single role fighters for exclusive air-superiority, strike and reconassance. Pretty much after jas-39 all aircrafts are developed multi-role. One of the reasons F-22 is being terminated and Eurofighter got the boot in singapore competition.
We have a chief of air staff you strategizes 21st century war, based on his 1971 experience of flying metal boxes and calls all aircraft mig-21 , mig-21 etc.

 

[nitesh]

Fly them, Mock air combats, exercises etc.. i think that's how you find out about a plane's capability...

My question is how to that? You need to induct it right for doing all this right? Before that declaring it as trash is cockiness and arrogance at it's best to say at least

 

[p2prada]

The how you declared it as peace of trash?

Every single plane is a piece of trash until it is fully validated to go into a combat environment. Combat planes aren't cars.

Now this is new, how to prove plane is reliable?

Red team, blue team, targets, goals, objectives etc. Then check attrition, survivability, fratricide, mission success rate, performance and maintenance. If all that exceeds expectations, then we have a good aircraft. If it is below satisfactory results, then we junk the fighter similar to F-14. All these are validated using air exercises which are held constantly throughout the year.

When IAF gets the LCA Mk1 they will do just that. That's what it means by user participation in projects.

Build to needs, not build what you want and then force it down on somebody.

 

[black eagle]

My question is how to that? You need to induct it right for doing all this right? Before that declaring it as trash is cockiness and arrogance at it's best to say at least

Well it can be done by inducting them in smaller numbers initially... Also that the IOC has been given, the IAF has full access to the aircraft now.. so they can do it even now i guess...

 

[nitesh]

All IAF wants in fourth generation and fifth generation stamps given my foreign vendors to their respective aircrafts, wait till u see a double decker grippen in an Indian medium fifth generation fighter aircraft competition. But HAL giving it could be unpalatable for Ac Naik. aren't we over the ages of single role fighters for exclusive air-superiority, strike and reconassance. Pretty much after jas-39 all aircrafts are developed multi-role. One of the reasons F-22 is being terminated and Eurofighter got the boot in singapore competition.
We have a chief of air staff you strategizes 21st century war, based on his 1971 experience of flying metal boxes and calls all aircraft mig-21 , mig-21 etc.

Now please rahul has posted the video in previous pages, have a look in to that. IAF chief has not said anything wrong there. He just did plain vanilla talk and media has twisted his words. Chief is right to say that there are some tests still needs to be done. But that's how it is done across the globe After IOC the BVR gets tested. The plane is put through exercises and moved around to find out what issues can creep up and those gets ironed out. Let's don't get in to trash talking ourselves.

 

[black eagle]

Every single plane is a piece of trash until it is fully validated to go into a combat environment. Combat planes aren't cars.



Red team, blue team, targets, goals, objectives etc. Then check attrition, survivability, fratricide, mission success rate, performance and maintenance. If all that exceeds expectations, then we have a good aircraft. If it is below satisfactory results, then we junk the fighter similar to F-14. All these are validated using air exercises which are held constantly throughout the year.

When IAF gets the LCA Mk1 they will do just that. That's what it means by user participation in projects.

Build to needs, not build what you want and then force it down on somebody.

well put............

 

[nitesh]

Every single plane is a piece of trash until it is fully validated to go into a combat environment. Combat planes aren't cars.

That is why I posted that particular article. What's your view on that? F 16 a piece of trash or a car?

Red team, blue team, targets, goals, objectives etc. Then check attrition, survivability, fratricide, mission success rate, performance and maintenance. If all that exceeds expectations, then we have a good aircraft. If it is below satisfactory results, then we junk the fighter similar to F-14. All these are validated using air exercises which are held constantly throughout the year. When IAF gets the LCA Mk1 they will do just that. That's what it means by user participation in projects.

So wait till then, that is why the orders have been given

Build to needs, not build what you want and then force it down on somebody.

Oh a new twist so ADA has sat in a la la land and built a plane and forced to IAF now? How much more bizarre it is going to get?

 

[nitesh]

Well it can be done by inducting them in smaller numbers initially... Also that the IOC has been given, the IAF has full access to the aircraft now.. so they can do it even now i guess...

Had I contradicted it? My point was solely against the declaration of the plane as trash. That is how the things are getting done. 40 have been ordered. If they perform well more numbers may get added, new version is already planned. So things are on right track.

 

[p2prada]

That is why I posted that particular article. What's your view on that? F 16 a piece of trash or a car?

This was a teething problem with a major windfall. Fly by wire was a relatively new technology then. So, a problem could be expected. Fact is this can happen to the LCA too.

So wait till then, that is why the orders have been given

Both IAF and IN have said they don't want the LCA.

IN cannot win wars for India and they can be lax at modernization. But IAF and IA cannot. IN admiral already said he would prefer the Rafale over the LCA anyday. Isn't it enough to tell you the truth?

You see indigenous equipment don't win wars, they only help prolong war. Foreign equipment forces a quick end to warfare. Anyway India cannot fight a prolonged war even with indigenous equipment.

Oh a new twist so ADA has sat in a la la land and built a plane and forced to IAF now? How much more bizarre it is going to get?

IAF already said LCA Mk1 does not fit requirements. Forcing 2 squadrons on them is just that. The problem is IAF just lost 40 pilots and 2 bases over an aircraft that is entirely unnecessary. One squadron was enough until Mk2 came into the picture.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

some authentic info:

http://forceindia.net/interview8.aspx

What is the configuration of the LSP versions and what changes will Mk-2 versions entail?

Equipment-fit LSP-wise is in the final standard of preparation for the IAF. All the sensors, communication equipment and weapons required for the current Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) are present. Also since we were designing a fighter of this class for the first time, we were very conservative in the design. Especially when it came to structural strength characteristics and this has lead to an increase in weight. Weight optimisation will be undertaken for the Tejas Mk-2 variant to reduce its weight. The Mk-2 version will also have better Centre of Gravity (CG) management and maintainability features. Within the programme feasibility, we will be revamping the cockpit electronics to bring it more up to date with technologies that will be prevalent around 2016. There will be advanced electronics, improved cockpit displays and interfaces which will remain contemporary even in the 2020's.
The Tejas Mk-2 will feature an alternate engine which will offer a performance increase of about 10 per cent. The engine change for Mk-2 will result in the rear fuselage being changed and intakes having to be redesigned. All these structural changes will also reflect in drawing changes and parts fabrication. The digital Fly by Wire (FBW) Flight Control System (FCS) will not change. We do not see much impact when it comes to hydraulics, electronics and undercarriage, etc. With regards to the developmental programme this will not be a major impact.

Mark 1 center of gravity management is thru ACM's tummy :balle:

Jokes apart

Mark 2 will most definitely go for Levcons
design changes involving air intakes fuselage and exhaust (current underbelly matches ACMs)
Samtel displays
AESA radar
increased weight and better thrust weight ratio achieved thru F414
Supercruise
Astra missile

 

[nitesh]

This was a teething problem with a major windfall. Fly by wire was a relatively new technology then. So, a problem could be expected. Fact is this can happen to the LCA too.

Teething problem after 2 decades of service? Any way you didn't answered the question, f 16 a piece of trash or a car?

Both IAF and IN have said they don't want the LCA.

IN cannot win wars for India and they can be lax at modernization. But IAF and IA cannot. IN admiral already said he would prefer the Rafale over the LCA anyday. Isn't it enough to tell you the truth?

I didn't seen those statements, please post them, or if posted earlier please point them to me. IN can not win wars then why we have them?

You see indigenous equipment don't win wars, they only help prolong war. Foreign equipment forces a quick end to warfare. Anyway India cannot fight a prolonged war even with indigenous equipment.

What are you trying to convey?

IAF already said LCA Mk1 does not fit requirements. Forcing 2 squadrons on them is just that. The problem is IAF just lost 40 pilots and 2 bases over an aircraft that is entirely unnecessary. One squadron was enough until Mk2 came into the picture.

How it was "forced"? I really haven't seen any statements like this coming if you can point out that would be great.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

get mark 2 flying in 12 months. Mark 1 is a tech demonstrator. Get LSP 6 flying within 30 days and push mark 1 to the limits. Make performance parameters public!!! ADA has never made it public!!! Stop wasting tax payers money. Why can't the LCA do 1.8 mach??
Why is ADA still playing safe after 1500 sorties? If it is indeed a capable machine press the pedal I say. You can't hide behind the excuse that you don't want a crash. with your kind of caution no fighters in the world would ever have crashed during development. There is nothing special about Tejas never having crashed. This kind of protectionism can't go on and on. It has actually led to this monumental delay as acknowledged by several ADA scientists themselves. But now you must shed the cocoon. We all love the Tejas but it is getting bad publicity because the defence establishments want to continue being cautious just to make sure IAF doesn't find faults. But this is the wong way of doing things. Atleast from now on lets see you guys push the bird. come on I say------