ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Sridhar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrTj4ywIjnw&feature=player_embedded

VIDEO: ADA's Tejas Vande Mataram Mix
A montage of nice shots of the Tejas with Rahman's Ma Tujhe Salaam tracked over. Honestly would've preferred some natural sound. At least the pictures are sweet.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/video-adas-tejas-vande-mataram-mix.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

'BANG-BANG' i shot u down!

'this is not right!'

 

[Sridhar]

Who is she?

Suman Sharma of Chindits Blog

 

[RPK]

suman sharma

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/

 

[Rahul Singh]

She is Suman Sharma of Chindits. Popularly known as DDM queen but here looking even more.

 

[black eagle]

IOC is over & done with.. But where is the HF tag for the tejas????

 

[gogbot]

Check the rest of the thread. You will get your answer. IAF wants MK2. Says Mk1 does not fit their requirements. This was made clear 2 years ago.

Things can change in two years , no ?

It's a 5ton aircraft. Where on earth does it even compare to anything, except the JF-17? Even Gripen is a complete platform. They had a flying prototype of the Gripen NG as far as in 2008. Our LCA Mk2 has not even gotten off the drawing board. What they had in 2010, we will have only in 2014. If we sign the MRCA deal in July, they will deliver by 2013.

I never though you to be the optimist on DFI p2p,

you and i bought no there will before s minimum of 18 months before the first squadron can be delivered.
And that's only for the American planes, which are already ready

The Russians only have a prototype for the mig-35
Gripen NG still has a long way to go

Saab stated that Sweden plans to order the Gripen NG under the JAS 39E/F designation. The new variant is to enter Swedish service in 2017 or possibly earlier if export orders are received.

It won't be ready at least till 2014.

Eurofighter is a no go on many on many aspects including weapon integration. With AESA delayed even longer. Yet it is considered the front runner

Rafael is possibly the only European plane that's going to be ready on time. And even it's AESA is ready to be called operational , till 2012.

What the MRCA is today the LCA

What you want to sweep all those under the rug or something.
All the MMRCA planes , excluding the Americans are still in development even if we placed an order today we would not get them prior to 2014.

Tell me other than the Americans have any of the counter even inducted their MMRCA aircraft ?

The LCA Mk1 does not compare to any of the MRCA contenders in aerodynamics and engine power. It is technologically backwards compared to the MRCA contenders as well. What the MRCA is today the LCA will be in 2016(FOC of LCA Mk2). By 2016, we will already start working towards an upgrade plan for the MRCA fighters while we will be inducting the LCA Mk2.

And after the first squadron is inducted around 2015(received from OEM) , we go at HAL's pace , which is hopefully a squadron every 2 years.
By 2017 we will only have a 2 MMRCA squadrons , that's realistic. If HAL does not have ToT absorption issues for manufacturing.

Your being far to optimistic with the MMRCA p2p , your ignoring the fact that they have their own development and manufacturing issues to overcome, even if they are considered to be proven aircraft.

 

[Rahul Singh]

"One crash,and wed have had to pack up"

No one seems to know this but the first prototype of the Swedish fighter JAC-39 crashed in its very fourth flight.It was running on an American engine.Even the first full production flight of the Swedish fighter crashed.But they carried on.

If there was even one crash,people would have sent us packing.The project would have been shelved.Indians can be unforgiving. Kota Harinarayana is the Bhageeratha behind the LCA project.He is the 21st century Bhageeratha for us,as far as our domain is concerned.The way he used to interact at review meetings was superbly encouraging.His questioning in meetings,making hard points,being forthright,was remarkable.He would adopt the carrot and stick outlook in our meetings.The interest he is taking in the project even after retirement is something for everyone to emulate.

Thanks Shiv(BR)

---------------------------
I know same has been posed in reply to critic's question "Why LCA took some many years......delays and all that" thousand time. Let it be one more time as you never know when a critic throws same rhetoric.

 

[Rahul Singh]

you have to uderstand his point he want to say now we have to look for the next we all know lca is working and a team can work on that

but now our main focus should be on the next version

i hope you know china has its 5 gen fighter planes and where are we now you know the answer

ADA is not one person. ADA represents a group of dedicated engineers belonging to different sections specialized in specific fields. FOC as we know represents full weapon integration and full flight envelop and will require only handful especially from weapon integration section and design optimization section. In the meantime rest of the workforce can and already is working on MK-2 design. By time they complete design work, MK-1 would reach FOC and workforce involved with Mk-1 will then start working on MK-2.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Between 1:26 and 1:33 ACM speaks world of truth. It was "TRP through sensationalizing" media and its moronic followers who tried to blew ACM's words out of proportion.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Backup your statements with sources.

Boss you really need to have some basic info of whats going on around you in the fighter aviation world. Why do you need sources for the above statement. Its the ABCD of the current discussion topic. Mark 2 specifications is what IAF wanted when air staff requirements were overhauled about 10 years ago. sadly mark 1 missed the bus.Prove me wrong.



83 is not a small number. Thats total 123 LCA equal to MMRCA order.

Sourced from Tarmak 007. LCA meant to replace Mig series21,23,27 aircraft in service in IAF and the ones lost in service and the ones retired. I din't know they made up a total of 123 aircraft. Thanks for the info.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

"Imagine a pro fighter pilot and ACM breaking down his words only to make obsessed citizens understand real meaning embedded in his sophisticated speaking."

Oh I did not know Mr. Gnyanoday spoke in a coded language with ACM understable only to both of them. Is this different to the ADA language? Poor citizens of this country. No wonder we are taken for a ride every time. Watch out for coded language scam.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Imagine MICA & Meteor on LCA..

This little bird is one deadly Air-defense fighter..

 

[p2prada]

That because MK-1 can be upgraded to MK-2 standard during MLU.

No it can't. The F404 cannot power the Mayawi suit along with the AESA. Nothing you can do to upgrade Mk1 to Mk2 standards. You forget that the MK2 will have major design changes.

But EF's AESA is expected to be fully operational only by 2014 and yet it participated in trials, what irony?

I was talking about Gripen.

What we know today is 5 out of 6 contenders failed Leh trials. And except Americans non have fully operational AESA on board. BTW what upgradation plan you see will go in MRCA inducted only 3 years ago but will not can not go in MK-2s inducted 2 years ago(IOC in 2014) consedering 2016 as baseline?

Gripen NG does not need to undergo as comprehensive tests as happened with the LCA or Gripen. Same with Mk2. Mk2's most realistic fly date is 2014. MRCA will be getting technologies by 2013, all first rate. The LCA Mk2 will get those same things in 2016, not necessary first rate since Israel has just barred sale of EL/M 2052 radar. By 2018 we will start upgrading MRCA to more modern standards while LCA Mk2 will only play catch up.

There is a limit to what you can put in a small airframe.

So is Jaguar, a jet far inferior to Mk-1 but IAF is inducting it in numbers. Despite knowing that MK-1 can very well be upgraded to MK-2 but Jagaurs can't be for any good, sure dump long before life expires. I wonder if MK-1 is tax payers insult what is decision to buy more Jaguar?

Jaguar is strike, LCA is point defence and interception. Huge difference. Right now I can go to war with Jaguars but I cannot do that with the LCAs until 2012.

Yet it is one of the best among IAF and by time other will get better LCA too get one. Nothing special here.

I was being sarcastic. IAF has better radars.

Gripen C/D has PS-05/A with only 120Km rage. Oh, i forgot Gripen NG an AESA fighter which flew in 2008 but yet to receive IOC.

But the NG IOC will be much more comprehensive than the LCA IOC.

Mayawi is a EW suit and comprises of RWR, Laser warning, MAWS, JAMMER and CMDS. Of these RWR and CMDS are already on board, MAWS, lase warning system and Jammer will be by FOC. Wonder why people keep skipping FOC factor?

I do not dispute the EW suite. My problem is inducting 2 squadrons of fighters the IAF clearly do not want. IAF wants the Mk2.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Then what if MK2 fails to satisfy you, drop it and move it to AMCA







Man I am getting sick of replying to this nonsence.

Excuse me but who asked for your reply? As if your reply changes the current perceptions and reality. You want IAF to accept a plane with 85 KN thrust in this day and age?? You are calling legitimate personal views of others as crap and nonsense( and you have mis spelt nonsense ! Shows ur worth) Do you even know that the thrust of a fighter aircarft is its very soul?

The Hindu May 2008-----

"BANGALORE: A nine-member delegation from Eurojet Turbo, leading European military aero-engine consortium, on Wednesday concluded a three-day "workshop" for the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), on the feasibility of their engine being used to power the underpowered Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

The workshop could be a precursor to the ADA — designers of the LCA — deciding on a new engine for the Tejas.

Eurojet, which is responsible for development, production, support, maintenance and sales of the new generation EJ200 engine, explained to officials from the ADA and the Air Force and Navy's LCA project teams, how its engine could be adapted for the Tejas.

The workshop comes in the wake of an Air Force communication to the Ministry of Defence that the Tejas, with its present engine — the General Electric manufactured GE F404 IN20 — cannot meet air staff requirements. The Air Force's reasons that the thrust (with afterburner) generated by the GE F404 IN20 — 85 kilo Newtons (kN) — is adequate for an aircraft of eight tonnes, but with the Tejas being overweight by nearly two tonnes it requires a much more powerful engine. The Air Force wants an engine that is capable of delivering a thrust of 100 kN."

And the ADA is thrusting down an supposedly capable aircraft without its soul to the IAF when much much earlier than it had stated Tejas is underpowered and does not suit its needs. You want IAF to accept it with a smiling face?

I am sure you are really sick by now. Get yourself admitted in a hospital. Take a break .Have a kitkat.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Tejas has just reached semi-final stage: Antony
The euphoria over the success of Tejas notwithstanding there has to be a reality check, even if it seems harsh. Even union defence minister A K Antony has admitted that Tejas has reached just "the semi-final stage'' at this point.

As was first reported by TOI earlier, the overall developmental cost of the Tejas project, including the naval variant and trainer, has zoomed up to Rs 17,269 crore from the initial Rs 560 crore earmarked for it in 1983. With each Tejas to cost around Rs 200 crore over and above this, India will end up spending well over Rs 25,000 crore on the programme.

Moreover, the real induction of the first 40 Tejas jets will begin only towards end-2013, with the first two squadrons becoming fully operational at the Sulur airbase (Tamil Nadu) by 2015 or so, a full three decades after the LCA project was first sanctioned to replace the ageing MiG-21s.

That's not all. The first test-flight of the Tejas Mark-II version, with more powerful American GE F-414 engines, will be possible only by December 2014, with its production beginning in June 2016. And even then, the Tejas will just be a medium to low-end fighter, not a high-end air dominance one.

ACM Naik, in fact, described Tejas as a "MiG-21 plus-plus'', and made it clear that it was not even a fourth-generation fighter at present but would be in the future, indicating it will primarily be used to plug the gap in numbers.

Consequently, India's frontline combat fighters will the 270 Russian-origin Sukhoi-30MKIs already being inducted for around $12 billion, the 126 new medium multi-role combat aircraft to be acquired in the $10.4 billion MMRCA project and the 250 to 300 fifth-generation fighter aircraft to be built with Russia in the gigantic $35 billion project.

Yes, there is no getting away from the critical fact that India has to be self-reliant in military hardware and software if it wants to emerge as a superpower on the global stage. But the Tejas saga puts serious question marks on the defence indigenisation model being followed.

The fighter, for instance, is still only around 60% indigenous despite being 27 years in the making. It, for example, is powered by American GE engines, with the indigenous Kaveri engine failing to pass muster despite Rs 2,839 crore being spent on it since 1989.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...mi-final-stage-Antony/articleshow/7257996.cms

Brother!!! you have hit the nail on the head---BINGO!!! Now ardent Tejas supporters keep wishing you hadn't spoken too much too soon.

 

[Rahul Singh]

"Imagine a pro fighter pilot and ACM breaking down his words only to make obsessed citizens understand real meaning embedded in his sophisticated speaking."

Oh I did not know Mr. Gnyanoday spoke in a coded language with ACM understable only to both of them. Is this different to the ADA language? Poor citizens of this country. No wonder we are taken for a ride every time. Watch out for coded language scam.

And an obsessed critic can never know, their prejudice mind never allow. Err ACM saying at present "LCA is no fourth generation". Is it that hard to understand he is referring at IOC stage precisely combat capability wise? But nevertheless a crtitc enjoys RANTS for obvious reasons. Poor people too obsessed to understand anything.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Because it took whole 3 years to make Eurofighter full MRCA that only with Paveway LGBs and air to ground cannon firing.

Beacuse XYZ took 3 years is it necessary we must too considering they don't have china and pakis pissing at their front door? We took 27 years for mark 1 why don't they follow suit from now on? There cannot be any more excuses. Close down the program if Mark 2 does not hit the sky in 12 months. Stop wasting tax payers money.

 

[p2prada]

Things can change in two years , no ?

Nope. New requirements have already been submitted.

I never though you to be the optimist on DFI p2p,

More like realistic.

you and i bought no there will before s minimum of 18 months before the first squadron can be delivered.
And that's only for the American planes, which are already ready

EF, Rafale, Mig-35 can deliver in the 2013-14 period. Gripen says they will be ready for deliveries by 2013. First flight was in 2008.

Heck Gripen managed AoAs of 100deg during tests and right now has a certified AoA of 50deg. And that's not even Gripen NG. Compare that to LCA's 24deg AoA after FOC.

Eurofighter is a no go on many on many aspects including weapon integration. With AESA delayed even longer. Yet it is considered the front runner

Rafael is possibly the only European plane that's going to be ready on time. And even it's AESA is ready to be called operational , till 2012.

I would still put my chips on the MRCA fighters simply because each one of them has been proven and ultimately fly better than the LCA any day of the week.

What you want to sweep all those under the rug or something.
All the MMRCA planes , excluding the Americans are still in development even if we placed an order today we would not get them prior to 2014.

They will deliver and I am pretty sure about it by looking at their past history. Don't compare ADA to other companies.

You see 2014 is still not 2016. LCA Mk2 FOC is only 2016 and that's being optimistic.

Tell me other than the Americans have any of the counter even inducted their MMRCA aircraft ?

So what? Have the Russians inducted MKI. No. Then where's the problem.

And after the first squadron is inducted around 2015(received from OEM) , we go at HAL's pace , which is hopefully a squadron every 2 years.
By 2017 we will only have a 2 MMRCA squadrons , that's realistic. If HAL does not have ToT absorption issues for manufacturing.

A squadron a year. we make 14 MKIs a year, which is a big deal. After HAL's modernization that's already happening it will only get faster with the MKI, MRCA and FGFA.

Your being far to optimistic with the MMRCA p2p , your ignoring the fact that they have their own development and manufacturing issues to overcome, even if they are considered to be proven aircraft.

Every single MRCA fighter has a variant of what they are trying to sell already operational and flying. That's more than enough for me. I would any day place my bets on the MRCA than the LCA.

It's been disappointing.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

How much more money do the people have to pay for this independent fighter compared to buying off the shelf planes...? India doesnt appear to be addressing its most urgent issues with the population suffering from widespread poverty and an AIDS pandemic.


bla bla ****ing bla, you'd be singing a different note if you had to return to the slumps every night after a hard day's work on the landfill site.

JOIN YOUR COMRADES!