A Deal's Collapse Clouds Pakistan's China Alliance

SpArK

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It seems Gwadar is a not starter..

We need to fasten up work on chabahar just to increase the "itch" factor..
 

agentperry

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pakistan and china will get cosier no doubt and it may ape india-soviet relationship of 1970/80s. but here i see pakistan becoming compulsive chinese consumerist state buying all stuff from china ultimately killing its own industry. it will lead to unrest and asking govt to do something which will hurt chinese exports in one way or the other &friction appears. moreover its a fact now that islamic terrorist are not handy of any nation or organization, isi lost control over mullah omar and ttp, they can very easily lose their influence over other terror groups which hold sympathy for chinese muslims. thus the new gmae may start and over all we may see sino-pak goin us-pak way.
moreover new world requires more investment as new age roads, bridges, railway and all will drain out big amount from chinese coffers. no harm. but its very distant dream that china allow and actually allow the pakistan to sell anything to to china.

moreover world putting a ban on pakistani export and pakistan will lead to another north korea( unfortunately in our backyard) with a papa china only there to support
 

Bangalorean

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We're dealing with a remarkably deluded nation here.

Yesterday, I saw an article in that terrorist-sympathetic newspaper of Pakistan, the Nation.pk - in that article, the writer was exhorting the Paki public to prepare for war with the US, and then this: "China has shown willingness even to stand up to the US in case Pakistan is threatened, and with China on our side, we need not have any worries about the US" :D

I mean, just look at them!! History has not taught them anything. Fools repeat their mistakes, the wise ones learn from them.

As an aside, look at the "aid money" that China has "pledged" (just pledged, not given) to the Pakis - $1.25 million. That's like Rs. 6 crore. With that amount, one can buy a plot of land in a posh locality in large Indian cities and build a nice house. And this is the kind of money that is being "pledged" on an international level.

In Bangalore, beggars don't accept small change like one rupee or two rupees anymore. Pakistan, being an international beggar seems to lap up any amount, even today.
 

pankaj nema

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When pakistan further collapses due to its economic and social problems ; at that time
Pak China friendship will be truly exposed

Pakistanis are just SHAMELESS Parasites . First they were sucking up to America Now it is China

China wants Returns on its investment .

In Chinese eyes Pakistan 's primary task is to tie down India in South Asia

But OTOH Pakistan is becoming a financial burden

And soon China will be deluded with calls to REFORM its useless and Talibanisied ally

Pakistan will BECOME China's problem
 

Tianshan

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The all weather friendship .....

what is the point of putting these videos up if we can't even understand them

anyone have a translation or a video with subtitles?
 
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Ray

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Let us not misunderstand Pakistan China collusion and necessity of each other.
 

Tianshan

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As an aside, look at the "aid money" that China has "pledged" (just pledged, not given) to the Pakis - $1.25 million. That's like Rs. 6 crore. With that amount, one can buy a plot of land in a posh locality in large Indian cities and build a nice house. And this is the kind of money that is being "pledged" on an international level.
good value for money then
 

Tianshan

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america pays billions to pakistan every year, free money, they don't have to pay it back. yet they get no loyalty

we pay a few million here and there, and some loans, and we get maximum loyalty

who can say this is not good value for money? if india can do this, they will be boasting about how good value it is.

why should we turn down a good deal?
 
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bengalraider

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I

As an aside, look at the "aid money" that China has "pledged" (just pledged, not given) to the Pakis - $1.25 million. That's like Rs. 6 crore. With that amount, one can buy a plot of land in a posh locality in large Indian cities and build a nice house. And this is the kind of money that is being "pledged" on an international level.

.
Correction 6 crores would buy you a place in a "B" grade posh locality, or an apartment on an "A" grade posh locality. It would not get you close to a house at Nariman point or Bandra Bandstand of Mumbai, let alone the Rolls infested bylanes of Chanakyapuri or Lodhi Estate in Delhi.:p
 

agentperry

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in psychology lesson i learned that if you help someone with making the looser realize that you are helping it will make a near permanent engram in his mind and that looser realizes helpers efforts as heavenly help ie something very significant in his life.
china helps out pakistan only when it gets isolated and amusing to see it gets isolated frequently. till here nothing is threatening. after complete or near complete isolation of world wide scale this nation will get stuck to chinese foot just like leech and then it will be pain for chinese. im waiting for that movement to see how things go on from that point.
 

sob

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america pays billions to pakistan every year, free money, they don't have to pay it back. yet they get no loyalty

we pay a few million here and there, and some loans, and we get maximum loyalty

who can say this is not good value for money? if india can do this, they will be boasting about how good value it is.

why should we turn down a good deal?
This is a very good comparison of how the US-Pak and Sino-Pak equation works. It is very clear that China is getting more bangs for bucks than the US. This is a classical case where the Rich Uncle is despised but yet you cannot do without the gifts that he showers on you.

On a historical note you must remember the people who stabbed Ceaser owed their career or life(Brutus) to him, yet they had no qualms on stabbing him brutally to death.
 

Tianshan

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On a historical note you must remember the people who stabbed Ceaser owed their career or life(Brutus) to him, yet they had no qualms on stabbing him brutally to death.
brutus killed his close friend, why is that relevant?

do you know even brothers can kill brothers, sometimes parents even kill their own family

betrayal is not limited to business partnerships or military alliances, even the closest of family members can betray each other as well. so why brutus?
 

sob

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An interesting analysis by B.Raman on the China Pakistan dynamics

Here's why China won't take Pakistan's side in tiff with US

The Chinese media have been informing the Chinese people of the tensions in Pakistan's ties with the US without any editorial comment so far. There have been no comments from the spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry either till now.

On 27 September, the People's Liberation Army Daily carried a report from the State-owned Xinhua news agency datelined Islamabad stating that Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, Director-General of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), had gone to Saudi Arabia for talks with his Saudi counterparts.

The Xinhua despatch said that the decision to send Pasha to Saudi Arabia was taken on the recommendation of the Corps Commanders of the Pakistan Army, who met in Islamabad on 25 September, "to brief Saudi leaders on the Pakistan-US tension." However, the Pakistani military spokesman Maj Gen Ather Abbas denied that Pasha had gone to Saudi Arabia and insisted that Pasha was in Islamabad.

The Xinhua report added: "Pakistan is likely to send envoys to other friendly countries in view of the tension with the US, sources said."

The party-owned Global Times carried two reports from AFP/Reuters news agencies relating, inter alia, to the unconnected visits of Gen James Mattis, the US CENTCOM Commander, to Islamabad; and of Meng Jianzhu, Chinese Minister For Public Security, to Islamabad, and the cancellation of the visit of Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, Pakistan's Chief of the Army Staff (COAS), to London.

While the Chinese media has so far restricted itself to reporting the arrival of the Chinese Public Security Minister in Islamabad, the Pakistani media has given more details of the visit.

Among those whom he met are President Asif Ali Zardari, Interior Minister Rehman Malik, Gen Kayani and Gen Khalid Shameem Wyne, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.

It was reported that Meng and Gen Wyne discussed "the emerging geo-strategic situation of the region". Meng was quoted by a Pakistan Army statement as having praised "the role played by the armed forces of Pakistan in the fight against terror."Meng was also quoted by the Pakistani media as saying that China stood by Pakistan and reaffirming China's support to Pakistan in the fight against militancy and for the promotion of regional peace and stability.



During Meng's meeting with President Zardari on the night of 26 September, officials of the two countries signed a number of agreements, reportedly valued at $250 million, on economic and technical assistance, flood relief and rehabilitation of some damaged parts of the National Highways networks. The Pakistani media reported that the Governor and the Chief Minister of Gilgit-Baltistan were among those present at the signing ceremony.

In response to local journalists who asked whether the visit was connected to the tensions in Pakistan's relations with the US, Malik said: "Let's not talk USA here. I am here with my friend from China. China is always there for us in the most difficult moments. China has supported Pakistan at every critical juncture of its history. We are grateful to it."Thus, both sides were anxious to avoid giving the impression that Meng's visit was connected to the tensions in Pakistan's relations with the US. According to reliable Pakistani sources, the visit had been arranged much before the current tensions in Pakistan's relations with the US and was connected to the year-long observance of the 60th anniversary of the setting-up of diplomatic relations between the two countries.
China is just as interested as the US in seeing effective Pakistani action against the sanctuaries of the Haqqani network in North Waziristan because the sanctuaries of the IMET are also reportedly located in the same area.

While strongly supporting Pakistan's counter-terrorism record – as China did after the US raid that killed Osama bin Laden at his Abbottabad hideout in May – China will avoid giving the impression that it is taking sides with Pakistan in its dispute with the US on the question of action against the Haqqani network.

China will have nothing to gain by justifying Pakistan's inaction against the Haqqani network. While avoiding any comments public comments on this issue that might be perceived as adverse to Pakistan, China would nudge Pakistan into acting against all terrorist sanctuaries in North Waziristan— whether of Al Qaeda, the Haqqani network or the IMET.


Here's why China won't take Pakistan's side in tiff with US | Firstpost
 

sob

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brutus killed his close friend, why is that relevant?

do you know even brothers can kill brothers, sometimes parents even kill their own family

betrayal is not limited to business partnerships or military alliances, even the closest of family members can betray each other as well. so why brutus?
You will have to read on your history to understand the physcology of Brutus after being pardoned by Ceaser after the defeat of Pompey's forces at the Battle of Pharsalia.
 

Tianshan

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You will have to read on your history to understand the physcology of Brutus after being pardoned by Ceaser after the defeat of Pompey's forces at the Battle of Pharsalia.
i read all about that, i also know that julius and brutus were extremely close.

but that is no way worse, than a parent killing their family or a son killing the parents.

since i have read about it, now you can tell me what you are trying to say.
 

Ray

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america pays billions to pakistan every year, free money, they don't have to pay it back. yet they get no loyalty

we pay a few million here and there, and some loans, and we get maximum loyalty

who can say this is not good value for money? if india can do this, they will be boasting about how good value it is.

why should we turn down a good deal?
Now, now, Tian.

It is true that you pay peanuts and get great gratitude.

Shows how you have realised the charms of the USSR way of winning friends.

You are fast learners.

Where you win over the US, is that you don't care what mode of governance is working and what happens to the people of the country.

That is a sure shot mode of success.

But sadly, for you, Pakistan and Muslim countries value Islam over everything else.

For Islam they can bite the hand that feeds.

And bite so hard that it bleeds which no surgeon can put together!

Saw how totally browned off you were in Xinjiang?

Allah is supreme!

Have no doubts about that.

The Muslims don't take crap about your ruining their Ramzan by making them eat before sundown.

They will make you have sundowners in blood!

Heard the blood-curdling yells of Allaho Akbar?

If not, go to Xinjaing!

You will love it.

It is music to the Muslims!
 
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sob

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i read all about that, i also know that julius and brutus were extremely close.

but that is no way worse, than a parent killing their family or a son killing the parents.

since i have read about it, now you can tell me what you are trying to say.
If you have read it then you will understand the present US-Pakistan love hate relationship much better. The same could be true tomorrow for Sino Pak relationship. Nobody likes to be indebted to the other and then reminded about it on every occasion, directly or in an oblique way.
 

thakur_ritesh

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We're dealing with a remarkably deluded nation here.

Yesterday, I saw an article in that terrorist-sympathetic newspaper of Pakistan, the Nation.pk - in that article, the writer was exhorting the Paki public to prepare for war with the US, and then this: "China has shown willingness even to stand up to the US in case Pakistan is threatened, and with China on our side, we need not have any worries about the US" :D

I mean, just look at them!! History has not taught them anything. Fools repeat their mistakes, the wise ones learn from them.

As an aside, look at the "aid money" that China has "pledged" (just pledged, not given) to the Pakis - $1.25 million. That's like Rs. 6 crore. With that amount, one can buy a plot of land in a posh locality in large Indian cities and build a nice house. And this is the kind of money that is being "pledged" on an international level.

In Bangalore, beggars don't accept small change like one rupee or two rupees anymore. Pakistan, being an international beggar seems to lap up any amount, even today.
hahaha not a bad one, the one on the top in the link below comes for 8(+)cr, in the outer skirts of gurgaon

Welcome to Marbella
 

asianobserve

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Well, it only goes to show that China has no balls! This does not bode well for its alliance formation efforts. This sissiness only displays to the World how unreliable China will be as a strategic ally. The West has shown its fair share of unreliability but not in the extent that China is showing us now.

SEA will definitely not going to be a willing ally of China.
 

Bangalorean

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what is the point of putting these videos up if we can't even understand them

anyone have a translation or a video with subtitles?
The interviewee is a well known Pakistani journalist. He is being asked about all this hoopla of "Chinese investments" in Pakistan.

I think the substance of what he said is important enough to translate and present here.

In general, he laughed off the hype around "Chinese investment in Pakistan". He says, in his own words:

Firstly, some MoUs have been signed, while there has been no real "Agreement" - as we know, MoUs are not legally binding. It is just a document of "intent".

Additionally, the MoUs that have been signed are for less than 1/3rd of the amount being bandied about in the Pakistani media. Mediamen have come up with fancy figures such as 35 billion dollars - the actual figure of MoUs signed is less than 10 billion, and even that is sketchy.

For flood relief, China has provided Pakistan around 10 million in aid, whereas the US, whom we all love to hate, has provided 300 million already. And that is just no-questions-asked free money.

I asked some of my contacts, who are prominent businessmen in Pakistan, for inside news on these supposedly gigantic trade deals being signed between China and Pak. Here's the shocking truth: all that giant collection of Chinese businessmen who came here to Pakistan were actually on the trip only for trade with India. They signed deals worth billions of dollars with India (real agreements, not MoUs). All those unwilling Chinese businessmen were dragged forward to Pakistan on the express insistence of the Pakistani government, who did not want it to be blatantly obvious that there is no trade to be done with Pakistan.

Many Pakistani businessmen who were in those photo shoots and supposedly signed "deals" with China, did not even know that the delegation would arrive - they were informed at the last minute, and were told to just "be there". They had no idea of what was going on!!!

So guys, this is the real nature of Pakistan-China "friendship". We still have several deluded Pakistanis who enjoy sucking Chinese. Suits me fine - let them stay in their land of dreams and false hope forever.
 

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