4000 year old Vishnu statue in Vietnam

[roma]

The Chinese had a strong cultural heritage but they never could project it outward like the way ancient Indians did.

In fact the Chinese flourished after adopting Buddhism. They were not known to anyone else other than us.

I never really understood that why is it no Indian government every took interest in developing alliances with southeast Asia before and always focused on arabized Muslim countries.

Good points
CPC China has been trying the past few years to squeeze an invitation to world Buddhist events and even host them
GOI cannot prevent any country from hosting whatever event, but especially now with more countries in the SCS region beginning to realize who and what CPC China really is, the GOI should make much more effort to separate India from whatever "Buddhism " CPC China represents as contrasted with the original Buddhism that came from India

The Indian original Buddhist COnferences should feature much of the Tibetan representation that flourishes in Dharamsala and the entire hierarchy of Tibetan Buddhist monks and lamas will be present to give talks , lectures in their capacity as religious officials and will refrain from political activities .. Nevertheless even so it will not be appropriate for China officials to be there too and so a polite unspoken request would be for them to please stay away, but representatives and citizens form other countries will certainly be invited and be present .

In fact as the Tibetans have developed Buddhism more than Indians in the latter days, it would therefore not be incorrect for them to have prominence in all proceedings .

Thereby the Indian form of ( original ) Buddhism will be distanced and separated from whatever "buddhism" CPC China is practicing in Tibet and Turkestan and the world must be forced to acknowledge the difference :

Preferably the world will realise that the the China version is actually Taoism or Confucianism or whatever, but certainly not Buddhism and thus the deference will become more apparent .

Although India has shown a lot of guts the past few decades the need to continue thus in the diplomatic management of the CPC China menace is still very much an absolute necessity .

One can only hope the GOI will be alert enough to take cognizance of this necessity .

Additionally; So when CPC China hosts their "world buddhist conferences" as obviously the Tibetans from Dharamsala would not be attending, thus India too should not attend and those countries that did so would be aware of the difference and lets see if they could feel good about going to the CPC organized event.

 

[right wing]

however india did help in the angkor vat renovation....why cant we do the same in laos n vietnam...many champa architectural ruins need urgent care..n what better way of generating soft power..n now we hav the bucks to do so.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

I never really understood that why is it no Indian government every took interest in developing alliances with southeast Asia before and always focused on arabized Muslim countries.

oil, i guess.

 

[Virendra]

We are yet to find out who conducted the dating of this statue and what was their method.
More details need to come out on this discovery, before it can be taken seriously.

 

[Bangalorean]

if the 4000 year story is true, it definitly destroys AIT Question is, this will not change the views of the diehards. Larger question: Is 4000 years correct? That sounds like propaganda from the Communist party of Vietnam.

In my world, Archeological evidence, is way bigger than, Linguistic evidence. We dont have any archeological evidence of a invasion. So, AIT has to be dead.

The Aryan invasion theory was destroyed by German scientists about three years back when they in their way proved that there was no invasion. On the other hand some east European civilizations actually started as a result of Indians from southern India migrating there thousands of years ago.

We need an overhaul of our history book and purge JNU.

AIT is dead. AMT is partially dead. I think OIT will take the place of these theories.

When I was a kid in CBSE, I remember reading nonsense about AIT, and generations of students like me have been brought up with AIT crap. I hope CBSE has suitably modified their syllabus now, and all the state boards too.

 

[Ray]

. After all, who knows the traditions of the Jarai, the Kroeungs or the "pure Chams"? Yet, the latter may be one of the most unique peoples in Cambodia, discreet in spite of their fascinating cultural heritage.

But first of all, who are the Chams? Present in Cambodia for five centuries, they are the heirs of the great Hindu kingdom of Champa. Champa, which controlled central modern-day Vietnam from the 7th to the beginning of the 19th century, was the Angkor Empire's sole rival for a long period, but eventually collapsed under the repeated attacks of the Vietnamese. The 1471 destruction of Vijaya, Champa's capital, was a catastrophe that forced thousands of Chams to flee to Cambodia.

The Chams one can meet in the street today around Kampong Cham ("the port of the Chams" in Khmer), Battambang or near the coasts are the descendants of these refugees.

 

[Ray]

This History of Champa and the Golden Arts

Although it is relatively unknown to most Westerners, the Kingdom of Champa existed for more years than the Roman Empire (27 BC - 1453) with which many similarities can be drawn. From the 2nd to the 19th century, Champa was a Hindu kingdom located in present day central and south Vietnam. During its halcyon days (7th-10th century), Champa stretched from Deo Ngang (also called Ngang Pass) to Cape Vung Tau (Cape St. Jacques) with 5 principalities named after historic regions of India: Indrapura (Dong Duong), Amaravati (Quang Nam), Vijaya (Cha Ban), Kauthara (Nha Trang), and Panduranga (Ninh Thuan).

The Champa people (Cham) are descended from Malayo-Polynesian settlers who reached the SE Asian mainland from Borneo during the Bronze Age. The Cham language is part of the Austronesian family and is written in Sanskrit. Recent research by archaeologists has shown that the Cham are linguistic and cultural descendants of the Sa Huỳnh culture (Vietnamese: Văn hóa Sa Huỳnh). The Sa Huỳnh culture flourished in Vietnam from 1000 BC to 200 AD.

The history of Champa can be found in various places to include Vietnamese history books, Chinese annals, and Champa steles written in Sanskrit and ancient Cham. From these writings, we know that early in its existence Champa was able to survive despite numerous defensive and offensive military encounters with the Chinese, the Javanese and the Khmer. During the 4th century, after successful campaigns against the Kingdom of Funan, Champa expanded southward into Funanese territory. The integration with Funan led to an infusion of Indian culture and religion into Cham society. Champa's ultimate conflict was with a country to the north called Dai Viet (Vietnam) which gained its independence from China in 939. Through a series of endless conflicts Dai Viet finally conquered and destroyed Indrapura in 982, isolating and forcing the Kingdom of Champa south to Vijaya. This defeat left Champa much weakened and initiated a gradual cultural and religious decline that ended in the complete loss of Vijaya in 1471. Throughout this period of subjugation, the Champa culture continued to decline. In 1832, the Kingdom of Champa was completely subsumed when the Vietnamese emperor Minh Mang annexed the last remaining Cham territory of Panduranga. Today the Kingdom of Champa no longer exists.

The Art of Champa
Even more than its history, Champa art is understudied and has little exposure in the Western world. This is primarily due to the complete loss of the Champa Kingdom when it was conquered by the Vietnamese. Moreover, Vietnam went through many years of wars and political turmoil until it finally fell to the Northern Communist regime, which resulted in the destruction of many Cham temples and contributed to the lack of interest in the lost Kingdom of Champa. In the introduction to The Art of Champa, Jean Francois Hubert wrote "Evoking Champa means glorifying death, sanctifying remnants, magnifying clues, singing the praises of mourning, and reconstructing of history." Champa only exists now in museums and glorified temple ruins across Hue in central Vietnam to Da Nang to Binh Thuan near Saigon. The remaining stone statues, steles and metal objects are few even in the museums of Vietnam, fewer still in museums of America, France, Belgium, Germany, and Singapore. However, in the past few years more Champa art objects of bronze, silver and gold have found their way into the public eye. A large number of these never seen before objects can be found at the Dr. Zelnik Southeast Asian Gold Museum in Budapest, Hungary. These objects are just now revealing an astonish look into the lost culture of a dead kingdom. Hubert wrote "What pleasure! What stimulation! What topics for study and reflection! Dr. Zelnik's collection of Cham gold pieces presented notably in a first and now this second volume of a series destined to include several is an exceptional gathering of objects that pose more questions than they offer answers"¦.Bring us to refer not the influence of Khmer art on Cham art but of Cham art on Khmer art, facts on which serious works must be done in the years to come." (2008 Gold Treasures of the Cham Kingdoms, Vol. 2)

Ancient Champa Gold

At its apex, Champa gold flourished with exceptional quality, technique and vigorous originality. The majority of Champa gold jewelry was not made to adorn the human body but as tributary objects, offerings to the gods, for rituals and for the King. Therefore Champa art production was mobilizes to the highest technical skill, consisting of variety of techniques like intaglio engraving. It appears that very little casting was used in the crafting of Champa jewelry, much less than in jewelry from Java or India. From the Western perspective, the jewelry of a goldsmith is usually not classified as art but rather as a handicraft. In the case of Champa gold jewelry, the craftsmanship is considered the highest of art forms producing decorations for the king and the gods.

After the integration of Funanese territory at the end of the 4th century, Indian influence was soon established that would have far reaching implications for Cham culture, religion and art. The imagery of art was shaped by Indian mythology of the Hindu gods from the 4th century and Bodhisattva from the 9th century, which was also found in the temple of Dong Duong. Even with these strong influences, Cham art remained distinct and identifiable. For example, the Cham depiction of Shiva exhibits stylistically incorporated Cham features of a wide nose, thick lips sometime with a hint of smile (all of which can be seen in the picture of Balarama holding his rice reaper on the left). Cham art does not follow the iconography prescriptions of Indian art and is amazingly original in style, with flamboyant detail reflecting Cham culture. It is unique, independently magnificent, and reached its peak during the classical period of the 9th - 12th century. This was the apex of The Kingdom of Champa, which flourished with artistic originality in religious art to include the building of temples, carving stone statues and manufacturing of gold, silver and bronze objects. During this time, Cham gold religious objects flourished with exceptional quality, technique and vigorous originality.

Dating Champa Gold Jewelry (New)

The iconography of the jewelry in this collection bears significant similarities to the iconography of the temples and sandstone sculptures found in the same regions. Therefore, it is no great stretch of imagination to apply the same classification schema to Champa gold jewelry that researchers have used for years to identify and date structures and sculptures. Indeed, in writing the descriptions of each of the items in this website I have applied these very same techniques.

The artistic styles of Cham art are classified according to the sites or locations of the Champa remnants recorded by Henri Parmentier in 1912-1918, Philippe Stern in his remarkable book, The Art of Champa (former Annam) and its Evolution published 1942, Jean Boisselier in Statuary of Champa (1963) and most recently by Jean F Hubert in The Art of Champa (2005). The fact that many temples at the same location had been constructed throughout the history of Champa makes this type of classification extremely complex. Regardless, this classification it is still widely used and can be simplified according to the requirement as outlined below:

My Son E1 style from 7th-8th century
Dong Duong style from 9th-the first half 10th century
Khuong My style is from the first half of the 10th century
Tra Kieu style (also called My Son A1) from the second half 10th to the first half 11th century
Chien Dan and Chanh Lo style is from the end of the 10th to the first half of the 11th century
Thap Mam (also called Binh Dinh) style from the second half 11th to the 14th century
Yang Mam style from 14th-15th century

There are two sub-styles in Champa art both of which represent transitional periods between two of the above major periods. The first called Khuong My style shares much of its iconography with the Dong Duong style. Khuong My style occurred in the transitional period between Dong Duong and Tra Kieu. The second transitional style incorporates Chien Dan and Chanh Lo, both of which have some similar iconography to the Tra Kieu style. However, there are significant deviations in the two styles. More pronounced in the Chanh Lo style is a simplification of jewelry, new style of hair and clothes, lack of smile and the return of strong facial features. These two styles represent the transitional period between Tra Kieu and Thap Mam.

History of Champa - Panduranga Gallery

 

[maomao]

I don't know why we even discuss AIT time and again - AIT got decimated the day city of Dwarka was discovered under water - which dates back way further than AIT or any other BS theory!

Probably, it's because we have been fooled long by commies and secularists - who do not want to give away a British Imperialistic theory which undermines Hinduism not just in Asia but in the whole world. This very reason prompts us to discuss discuss and doubt doubt as we ourselves are unable to accept the facts! Commies and secularists will always serve their foreign masters by infusing doubts and dislike for your own culture - and mind you they have been doing this for decades with success!

 

[Soham 123]

The Aryan invasion theory was destroyed by German scientists about three years back when they in their way proved that there was no invasion. On the other hand some east European civilizations actually started as a result of Indians from southern India migrating there thousands of years ago.

We need an overhaul of our history book and purge JNU.

Which East European civilisation from south india

 

[Soham 123]

Funny we're still discussing the Aryan Invasion Theory. The Out of India is now a fact which will have to be acknowledged soon. Read more Hinduism and Quantum Physics: The Status of the Aryan Invasion Theory in academic circles today

Still out is not proved