30 years to design an aircraft but hope still

[roma]

year ago an indian friend proudly told me that india was designing a light trainer aircraft ..... i later learned that it was finally produced decades later ..... is that still the case in the IAF or whatever org is responsible for such development ??
on a brighter not however i did observe that indian helicopters won an equadorian contract for supply of armed helicopters for police use.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Roma you have to remember sanctions were placed on India during this time, it should teach India to go towards being 100% indigenous in their defense needs.

 

[advaita]

Roma you have to remember sanctions were placed on India during this time, it should teach India to go towards being 100% indigenous in their defense needs.

Sanctions on and off
Adverse International Political situation even in non-sanction years.
Sever shortage of money from 83 to 95 to fund the project.
Fast changing requirements (genuine changes)

But still we should support it. Single biggest learning experience (nobody sells the really important stuff in the international market, If you can develop it yourself or learn to live without...) and end product will at least be at least of average utility.

 

[Sabir]

year ago an indian friend proudly told me that india was designing a light trainer aircraft ..... i later learned that it was finally produced decades later ..... is that still the case in the IAF or whatever org is responsible for such development ??
on a brighter not however i did observe that indian helicopters won an equadorian contract for supply of armed helicopters for police use.

If you are talking about the LCA-Tejas project I will suggest you to check the LCA related thread...you will get a lot of information about the project.
Though long ago the plan was there serious funding for the project came only on 1994. Aviasion industry has progressed a lot since then and Indian scientists tried best to keep pace with the change..(how can they offer a 1980s plane to airforce when it is already 2007...) so the end product is not the same when it was first conceived. You can understand how difficult it could be for a closed economy to build up a 4th or 4.5th generation air-craft from the scrach.
BTW ..........DRDO is not a private company.So it is not mandatary for it to go for a commercial production for surviving the project...because money will come for it till it matches the specification of the Air-force. You can compare the details of Tejas with other modern aircrafts.
IAF has already ordered for 20 LCA-Tejas MK1 version. MK2 will have much stronger engine. IAF has plan to induct 200+ such planes.

 

[Sabir]

year ago an indian friend proudly told me that india was designing a light trainer aircraft ..... i later learned that it was finally produced decades later ..... is that still the case in the IAF or whatever org is responsible for such development ??
on a brighter not however i did observe that indian helicopters won an equadorian contract for supply of armed helicopters for police use.

One more thing....Tell me how long USA took to build F-22?
10 years? 15 years? 20 years?
WRONG....it took all six decades of experiance to be at a level to conceive such a plane. Isn't it?
If you are hammering on a big stones ...and not a single crack was seen even after 99 blows...but it spilted when the 100th blow is delivered. Does it mean the stone is broken only by the blow no.100? first 99 blows has no contribution?

 

[advaita]

BTW ..........DRDO is not a private company.So it is not mandatary for it to go for a commercial production for surviving the project...because money will come for it till it matches the specification of the Air-force.

See DRDO will get money only if Indian govt has any. 83-84 period we tried to kick start the capitalist part of the economy (the real economy not the deficit financed one) and then quickly gave up the very same year.
90 was when we had no option but to libralise. We had treasury enough for only 3-7 days worth of imports at one point in 1990. The libralisation took time till around 95 to bring some breath back into the comatose real-economy. Hence the delays in funding.

 

[Sabir]

See DRDO will get money only if Indian govt has any. 83-84 period we tried to kick start the capitalist part of the economy (the real economy not the deficit financed one) and then quickly gave up the very same year.
90 was when we had no option but to libralise. We had treasury enough for only 3-7 days worth of imports at one point in 1990. The libralisation took time till around 95 to bring some breath back into the comatose real-economy. Hence the delays in funding.

True ! even today if they feel there is scope of improvement they should go for it rather than jumping in for commercial production of a less capable version(only limited number should be produced to judge the capabilities of the air-craft). The main objective should be maintaining the learning curve and close the gap with best aircrafts of world.

 

[Angelis]

The guy does have a point, the problem is all the major air-forces are moving toward a doctrine where they would have only two types of fighter category, i. Air-superiority and 2. Multi-role for air and ground attack modes. Where does the tejas fit in, primarily meant to be a point-intersection fighter now it is slated to be multi-role fighter. The best that can be derived from the plane is experience and future trainers that don't need sophistication. But at this point in time india does need the planes desperately to reach its target of 45 squadrans by 2020. But the planes do have particular use with countries like sri-lanka, bhutan, nepal, afghanistan, oman, african and south-american countries which buy fighters like gripen or chinese mig-21 re-engineered products just to arrest their air-space soverignity.

 

[Sabir]

The guy does have a point, the problem is all the major air-forces are moving toward a doctrine where they would have only two types of fighter category, i. Air-superiority and 2. Multi-role for air and ground attack modes. Where does the tejas fit in, primarily meant to be a point-intersection fighter now it is slated to be multi-role fighter. The best that can be derived from the plane is experience and future trainers that don't need sophistication. But at this point in time india does need the planes desperately to reach its target of 45 squadrans by 2020. But the planes do have particular use with countries like sri-lanka, bhutan, nepal, afghanistan, oman, african and south-american countries which buy fighters like gripen or chinese mig-21 re-engineered products just to arrest their air-space soverignity.

By 2020 Iaf will get all 200 LCA mk2 and mk3. With its smaller range this single engine fighter will be used to check enemy air attack ....offensive roles will be taken up by Su-30 MKI or other more sophisticated and more powerful aircrafts. Of course LCA has good export potential in third world countries...its main compititor may be J-17...

 

[roma]

many many thanks to advaita, sabir, lethal force and angelis - you have added to my knnowledge i sure didnt know what you did b4 and not sure i totally understand at your level n«but it has improved for me eh ? thanks guys

 

[Known_Unknown]

There are 4 ways to develop a indigenous defence aviation industry. Steal German scientists after WWII (Soviet Union and US), "co-operate" with those who stole German scientists (France, UK etc), reverse engineer and pirate imported foreign jets (China), or develop an industry from scratch without doing (1), (2) or (3) above (India).

Naturally, it took India much longer.

 

[Sabir]

There are 4 ways to develop a indigenous defence aviation industry. Steal German scientists after WWII (Soviet Union and US), "co-operate" with those who stole German scientists (France, UK etc), reverse engineer and pirate imported foreign jets (China), or develop an industry from scratch without doing (1), (2) or (3) above (India).

Naturally, it took India much longer.

I have stolen your post and pasted it on Military Jokes thread.

 

[Known_Unknown]

Hey, it wasn't supposed to be a joke!

 

[Sabir]

Hey, it wasn't supposed to be a joke!

Check that thread Military Jokes....I have posted some real stories too....yours one is among them.

 

[icecoolben]

Tejas mach 3¿¿¿ Care to elborate on that.

 

[Sabir]

Tejas mach 3¿¿¿ Care to elborate on that.

mach 3 ????????????

Its mk3 or mark 3 ....future versions of LCA

Speed of LCA is max Mach 1.6 or may be 1.8

 

[SATISH]

I dont think there will be a mark3 version of the Tejas. I think the Tejas is really underpowered but more agile in many cases.

 

[icecoolben]

Lets fix the engine problem quickly and then go for mark-3, 4 etc. Whats truly important for an aircraft is its engine and all specifications thrust to weight, agility, take off weight etc would have to depend on it.

 

[stuka]

There are 4 ways to develop a indigenous defence aviation industry. Steal German scientists after WWII (Soviet Union and US), "co-operate" with those who stole German scientists (France, UK etc), reverse engineer and pirate imported foreign jets (China), or develop an industry from scratch without doing (1), (2) or (3) above (India).

Naturally, it took India much longer.

MY friend, pursuant your ideology, everthing in the world is pirated from the former with some amending. So, could we say that the everything in the world now is created by the GOD and what we do is just amend it and keep on amending and pirating?

 

[roma]

i'll have to agree with stuka here

what is so wrong with modifying existing design and getting a workable and functioning product out on the field in minimum time ..... China has been doing that since ages and it does not owna monopoly or sole rights on copying , do they ?
i sincerely hope that my own folks the indian people can do something similar instead of trying to , ultimately re-invent the wheel ??