1,100 quota seats in IITs not filled this year

pmaitra

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I agree - it IS in the mindset. Unfortunately- the longer the quota system stays - the more entrenched it becomes!! And I worry that the new "CASTE INCLUSION" as part of this census is anything but a ploy to get SCIENTIFIC numbers of SC/ST/OBC's in order to surpass the 50% quota limit!!
Quite on the contrary, casteism was entrenched in the minds centuries before this 'quota system' was introduced. Blaming the 'quota system' for whatever mindset one might claim to have is simply dodging the core issue and beating around the bush. Reservation is a solution, not a problem. Of course, it has to go, but only when the mindset changes, and it will change only when, thanks to reservation, the backward classes become economically and socially empowered.

Its already shameful that Tamil Nadu has almost 70% reservations - to MAKE it official would be to take and axe and lop off BOTH our feet - to shoot our foot would be an understatement!!

Isn't there another state with > 50% quota btw?
What does 70% reservation mean? There is reservation for everybody. Everything is reservation, hence if alpha is the share of one group, (1-alpha) is the share of the other group. This means there is reservation for everybody depending upon their population. Hence, even you and I have reservation, and we belong to the quota of that .505 that I had earlier mentioned.

You are upset, not because of reservation, but because the quota available to you earlier was (1 - .225) = .775, and now after introduction of reservation for OBCs, has shrunk to .505. Why are you upset anyways? Surely, there wasn't adequate representation of OBCs in the .775 quota and most of the posts were occupied by the so called 'upper castes' on the unsupported claims of intellectual superiority. Now that there is a clear cut demarcation, the OBCs will get their share out of the .775 and the GCs will get their share as well.

Especially when most of the teachers and professors in colleges are from the 'upper castes' (it is slowly changing), how can one guarantee that they will be fair and not prejudiced when grading entrance tests that are required for admitting students in these colleges? There is enough evidence how people who are non-'upper caste' have been discriminated against, despite being intelligent and merited. Two examples are Dr. Ambedkar and Dr. Abdul Kalam (Read Wings of Fire).

I like this demarcation based on demographics. As in Poet Robert Frost's Mending Wall, 'Good fences make good neighbours!'
 
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SixSigma1978

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Quite on the contrary, casteism was entrenched in the minds centuries before this 'quota system' was introduced. Blaming the 'quota system' for whatever mindset one might claim to have is simply dodging the core issue and beating around the bush. Reservation is a solution, not a problem. Of course, it has to go, but only when the mindset changes, and it will change only when, thanks to reservation, the backward classes become economically and socially empowered.


What does 70% reservation mean? There is reservation for everybody. Everything is reservation, hence if alpha is the share of one group, (1-alpha) is the share of the other group. This means there is reservation for everybody depending upon their population. Hence, even you and I have reservation, and we belong to the quota of that .505 that I had earlier mentioned.

You are upset, not because of reservation, but because the quota available to you earlier was (1 - .225) = .775, and now after introduction of reservation for OBCs, has shrunk to .505. Why are you upset anyways? Surely, there wasn't adequate representation of OBCs in the .775 quota and most of the posts were occupied by the so called 'upper castes' on the unsupported claims of intellectual superiority. Now that there is a clear cut demarcation, the OBCs will get their share out of the .775 and the GCs will get their share as well.

Especially when most of the teachers and professors in colleges are from the 'upper castes' (it is slowly changing), how can one guarantee that they will be fair and not prejudiced when grading entrance tests that are required for admitting students in these colleges? There is enough evidence how people who are non-'upper caste' have been discriminated against, despite being intelligent and merited. Two examples are Dr. Ambedkar and Dr. Abdul Kalam (Read Wings of Fire).

I like this demarcation based on demographics. As in Poet Robert Frost's Mending Wall, 'Good fences make good neighbours!'
You are SIMPLY demarcating boundaries as if they're compartmentalized to each category of reserved candidates!!! The OBC's STILL end up with their 27% + 50% of the GENERAL merit!! Ditto for SC/ST's for their quota. Hell if they had exclusively got their 27% and SCSTs had their 23% leaving the merit for MERIT without dilution - THAT would've been SOMEWHAT bearable!!

Note that I'm NOT using the word "upper castes" you're demonizing them using that word again and again! I'm simply stating MERIT!!

Fact is - I've "Seen" the growth of the lower castes. Case point being the Meena community in Rajasthan! They've availed ALL the benfits of reservations - and fight tooth and nail to suppress other STs from taking the quotas. and I mean COMPLETELY!!
During engineering - NONE of the meenas (thats an absolute number) - compelted their engineering - went on to become RAS/IPS/ICS/IAS through reservations.
The Meenas in any Civil Administration force are a Nightmare. They move to uplift ONLY other meenas and violently put down all other ST tribes in Rajasthan!!
They caused havoc - disrupted classes because they bunked and wanted NO ONE ELSE to attend classes as well - forced strikes to demand elections!! Commited thefts, and even molested girls! and THIS was an NIT!!!

They VEHEMENTLY oppose the "Creamy Layer" concept - especially knowing now that their TRIBE will get delisted if CREAMY LAYER goes through!!

The story in South - especially in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka (another case points- and I have SO MANY - its impossible to fill this box) is even worse!

Think about all the thousands of seats that they're wasting in medical and engineering. Their rotten quality floods the Indian institution with substandard labor force - and in the end : Its us who lose!!

I don't care about the numbers - for India to Arrive! The quotas have to go - and a mindset that it takes time is ridiculous! They've had 60 years - and the poor have remained poor!! Only a sliver few have made it at the cost of others.:angry_10:
 

pmaitra

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You are SIMPLY demarcating boundaries as if they're compartmentalized to each category of reserved candidates!!! The OBC's STILL end up with their 27% + 50% of the GENERAL merit!! Ditto for SC/ST's for their quota. Hell if they had exclusively got their 27% and SCSTs had their 23% leaving the merit for MERIT without dilution - THAT would've been SOMEWHAT bearable!!

Note that I'm NOT using the word "upper castes" you're demonizing them using that word again and again! I'm simply stating MERIT!!
I put the term 'upper caste' within quotes. I apologise for not putting some more extra quotes.

Fact is - I've "Seen" the growth of the lower castes. Case point being the Meena community in Rajasthan! They've availed ALL the benfits of reservations - and fight tooth and nail to suppress other STs from taking the quotas. and I mean COMPLETELY!!
During engineering - NONE of the meenas (thats an absolute number) - compelted their engineering - went on to become RAS/IPS/ICS/IAS through reservations.
The Meenas in any Civil Administration force are a Nightmare. They move to uplift ONLY other meenas and violently put down all other ST tribes in Rajasthan!!
They caused havoc - disrupted classes because they bunked and wanted NO ONE ELSE to attend classes as well - forced strikes to demand elections!! Commited thefts, and even molested girls! and THIS was an NIT!!!

They VEHEMENTLY oppose the "Creamy Layer" concept - especially knowing now that their TRIBE will get delisted if CREAMY LAYER goes through!!

The story in South - especially in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka (another case points- and I have SO MANY - its impossible to fill this box) is even worse!

Think about all the thousands of seats that they're wasting in medical and engineering. Their rotten quality floods the Indian institution with substandard labor force - and in the end : Its us who lose!!

I don't care about the numbers - for India to Arrive! The quotas have to go - and a mindset that it takes time is ridiculous! They've had 60 years - and the poor have remained poor!! Only a sliver few have made it at the cost of others.:angry_10:
You are simply venting your anger over the Meenas. Are the only ones who vandalise, create trouble, steal, molest girls from Meena community? Don't we have Thakurs, Khatris and people from all different castes 'lower' or 'upper' committing the same crimes? Does it imply the entire community is to blame? No body is wasting seats. The biggest wasteage in human resources was in the last 2000 years when a chunk of the population was denied education and basic rights. It takes generations to uplift those who have been oppressed for millenia. Whatever happened in last 60 years is insignificant compared with last 2000 years. You have the temerity to compare x with dx. Very funny, but totally merit-less, to put it mildly!

Moreover, I strongly support reservation for Kashmiri Pandits as well, because they were oppressed and are minorities. You further confirm your casteist prejudice by not complaining against the Kashmiri Pandits, but selectively launching a tirade against the Meenas, apparently, because the former are 'upper castes'. Come clean man and show the 'MERIT' of your own arguments.
 

anoop_mig25

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ok reservations are good but do not u think it would be fair to link it with economic status of the concerned person as cast would still factor in it but someone with well financially sound status wont be depriving same seat to someone belonging to same category.

also i read it that a person in reserved category with higher marks in any competitive examination whether for job or for education is offered seat in non-reserved category thus by saving one seat again for reserved category person

and what about same reservations in private sector?
 

pmaitra

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ok reservations are good but do not u think it would be fair to link it with economic status of the concerned person as cast would still factor in it but someone with well financially sound status wont be depriving same seat to someone belonging to same category.

also i read it that a person in reserved category with higher marks in any competitive examination whether for job or for education is offered seat in non-reserved category thus by saving one seat again for reserved category person

and what about same reservations in private sector?
As I said reservation should be for everyone, be he from 'upper' or 'lower' class or caste. It is based on historical oppression and victimisation. Hence, dalits as well Kashmiri pandits qualify.

I don't know much about meritorious students from reserved category competing as GC but I know for sure it is illegal for anyone to hide his category in IIT-JEE, thus ensuring reserved category students do not occupy GC seats, even if they are extremely meritorious.
 

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