China preventing UN action on Libya

amoy

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As an Indian, I wear it as a badge of honour. This again shows that India is not a lackey of the US or any western power.

Don't let this revelation dampen your spirits though.
self serving powers come up with rhetorics like "stop civilian casualties" but basically the same

how will they fish in the trouble water i.e. a post-Qaddafi Libya?
 

pmaitra

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self serving powers come up with rhetorics like "stop civilian casualties" but basically the same

how will they fish in the trouble water i.e. a post-Qaddafi Libya?
Exactly. As I already called it out, that it is nothing but a façade.

Post-Gaddafi Libya? It will be a bigger mess. Most countries that the West has left are in a mess today.
 

Armand2REP

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self serving powers come up with rhetorics like "stop civilian casualties" but basically the same

how will they fish in the trouble water i.e. a post-Qaddafi Libya?
The real question is how is China going to fish in post-Gaddafi Libya. They had huge deals with the regime which are all going to be void now. Libyan rebels attacked Chinese camps and were among the first forced out of the country. While China didn't block anything, sitting in the corner is not winning them back.
 

civfanatic

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It's a shame we abstained. I would have loved to see Su-30MKIs take to the skies over Libya as part of the International Task Force. Oh well.
 

pmaitra

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It's a shame we abstained. I would have loved to see Su-30MKIs take to the skies over Libya as part of the International Task Force. Oh well.
Why is it a shame? Would India have gained anything out of it?

If India gains, it should go for it. If not, why bother? Let the French make more enemies in Libya. France isn't very far from Libya for Libyan radicals to strike back. This is going to create more terrorists now.
 

kch

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Yes, Indian response is predictable and I agree with it. Energy security is too big a factor for us to start being the leading light of freedom movements across the world. I just hope Qadhafi will at least foil AQ-in-maghreb. Russian/Chinese co-operation is puzzlingly welcome. I'm sure it comes with a promissory quid-pro-quo from west - if Libya turns free, chinese business interests will not be harmed.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90856/7323736.html

red-dlagon: sorry your "shame on you indians" psy-ops from CPC line is so childishly kinder-gartenesque. Please revise the syllabus and consult with senior commissar to come up with subtler messages that'll weaken the resolve of "splittist" anti-people regime in India :)
 

pmaitra

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^^ Great post buddy! Especially that 'kinder-gartenesque' ... LOL! I learnt something new today.
 

no smoking

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The real question is how is China going to fish in post-Gaddafi Libya. They had huge deals with the regime which are all going to be void now. Libyan rebels attacked Chinese camps and were among the first forced out of the country. While China didn't block anything, sitting in the corner is not winning them back.
Extermination of Gaddafi regime is the big reward to China. If we look at china's trading record with him, you can find that China has got no big oil contract from this jerk. Additionally, he sold out china by sending Chinese version blue print of nuclear bomb to US. It is safe to say that China hates him as much as anyone else. The only problem is that China don't want to make its hands dirty.
 

kch

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Chinese ambitions means it cannot allow west to be seen as the one to clear up Qadhafi. It's extremely insecure thought process gets all panicky because it sees that as Libya going into western sphere of influence. So it'll try to raise objections etc. until west gives it an explicit guarantee. Ever since Nixon-Kissinger, CPC is addicted to the feeling of importance it gets whenever west consults it on these matters.

I think Bush was the first guy to violate that practice. But now it's all back to "China is important for stable world order" thing.

I think even the west (except france) is probably equally reluctant in unseating Qadhafi. Barack was too quick to the trigger and anxious to be seen as with the arab people in case the rebellion succeeded (much like Misr). I think under Barack, US has been over-anxious to be seen as with the arab people.
Maybe rightly so - it's never wrong to support freedoms. But definitely a deviation of standard US practice earlier.
 

captonjohn

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I have tried my best to point out that PRC did not prevent any UN action. Yes, they abstained, and for valid reasons too. They did not support any UN action, but that does not imply they prevented it either. Yes, it was ironic that PRC was 'singled out' and that was largely speculative, but not anymore. So cheer up buddy!
You proved right mate, China haven't blocked any UN action and abstained but the most surprising and unfortunate action was done by India which was totally unexpected. I think India has done a big mistake. To Chinese, thanks for not opposing UN action because sometimes not saying something is also considered as support.
 

pmaitra

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You proved right mate, China haven't blocked any UN action and abstained but the most surprising and unfortunate action was done by India which was totally unexpected. I think India has done a big mistake. To Chinese, thanks for not opposing UN action because sometimes not saying something is also considered as support.
I respect your opinions buddy. My contention is that if India does not gain anything, why take sides at all?

IMHO, this is not an evil versus good fight. It is a civil war between two armed factions. No doubt that Gaddafi himself is responsible for much human rights abuses, but do we know who these rebels are?
 

Armand2REP

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Extermination of Gaddafi regime is the big reward to China. If we look at china's trading record with him, you can find that China has got no big oil contract from this jerk. Additionally, he sold out china by sending Chinese version blue print of nuclear bomb to US. It is safe to say that China hates him as much as anyone else. The only problem is that China don't want to make its hands dirty.
Yeah, sure... 8% of all Chinese foreign workers were in Libya. They signed $20 billion worth of construction contracts in the last three years, they signed $10.05 billion just in 2008. This is going to hurt companies like Huawei, CSCEC, CRC and 177 other Chinese firms with contracts in Libya. CCP will be sad to see him go as they already plan to restart operations under his brutality...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.0af06a235b3fa5689ba5127dac77bed9.a81
 

pmaitra

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I second this quote by Amit:


India has done the right thing, there is only one motive behind west's policies on Libya, that is to install a pro-NATO government in the country dominated by warring tribal groups. Those who think that after Gadhafi there will be a peoples' rule in Libya are daydreaming. No popular uprising is going on inside Libya, its a civil war between various armed groups to grab power. Its good to see Russia, China and India coming together. I hope that the three nations will keep cooperating on the international stage in future.
 

civfanatic

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Why is it a shame? Would India have gained anything out of it?
We would gain increased international reputation, at least in the eyes of most nations. Gaddaffi clearly deserves military retribution. This is not a case like Iraq where the use of force is unwarranted.

And to be honest, I just want to see our Flankers in action :becky:
 

pmaitra

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We would gain increased international reputation, at least in the eyes of most nations. Gaddaffi clearly deserves military retribution. This is not a case like Iraq where the use of force is unwarranted.
I beg to disagree buddy. The UK gained more ridicule than reputation by following the US like a page boy wherever the US decided to invade some country.

Had India joined in, it would have always remained in the shadow of the biggies. France got an ego boost out of it. India would have earned the reputation of a lackey of the West. I am glad India abstained.

And to be honest, I just want to see our Flankers in action :becky:
That is a valid reason. Other than satisfying passions, it would have been good practice for our pilots. ;)
 

pmaitra

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Some news from Al-Jazeera:


 
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pmaitra

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Also consider this:

All this talk about air-strikes starting within hours could be a bait to incite Gaddafi to lunge onto Benghazi with a full-fledged assault causing widespread civilian casualties thus giving Monsieur Sarkozy an excuse. Gaddafi is ipso facto incapable of claiming any human rights credit anyway. This will entail a bloodbath. I wonder if this is at all necessary, if my speculations are correct.
 

Armand2REP

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Also consider this:

All this talk about air-strikes starting within hours could be a bait to incite Gaddafi to lunge onto Benghazi with a full-fledged assault causing widespread civilian casualties thus giving Monsieur Sarkozy an excuse. Gaddafi is ipso facto incapable of claiming any human rights credit anyway. This will entail a bloodbath. I wonder if this is at all necessary, if my speculations are correct.
If Gaddafi signs & keeps to a ceasefire, action will not be taken as the bloodbath will have stopped. It would be his wisest decision as it is the only thing that would keep him in power. His little bloodbath speech about Benghazi today is what prompted such a swift decision so I really doubt if he is that smart.
 

pmaitra

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If Gaddafi signs & keeps to a ceasefire, action will not be taken as the bloodbath will have stopped. It would be his wisest decision as it is the only thing that would keep him in power. His little bloodbath speech about Benghazi today is what prompted such a swift decision so I really doubt if he is that smart.
I was also thinking on the same lines. If I were Gaddafi, I would declare ceasefire and offer talks with the rebels, find a middle ground, establish a coalition government and offer general amnesty to the rebels. Gaddafi should not repeat the mistakes that yet another imbecile Mikhail Saakashvili did on Tskhinvali.
 
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captonjohn

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I was also thinking on the same lines. If I were Gaddafi, I would declare ceasefire and offer talks with the rebels, find a middle ground, establish a coalition government and general amnesty for the rebels. Gaddafi should not repeat the mistakes that yet another imbecile Mikhail Saakashvili did on Tskhinvali.
Gaddafi don't have such brain, did you noticed what he was saying in his recent speech in which he addressed Benghazi people that we are coming and you won't be leaved by us. I think he must face some bombs on his head and his air force plane got shot down by UN forces. He won't be able to get in in Benghazi because till today evening UN forces will establish No-Fly zone and Gaddafi's defeat will start soon.
 

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