Your choice for the next goverment of INDIA

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by A.V., Mar 25, 2009.

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Who will win elections 09

  1. UPA

    10 vote(s)
    23.3%
  2. NDA

    26 vote(s)
    60.5%
  3. THIRD FRONT

    2 vote(s)
    4.7%
  4. A NEW front

    3 vote(s)
    7.0%
  5. NOT interested/dosent matter

    2 vote(s)
    4.7%
  1. devgupt

    devgupt Regular Member

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    Congress screws big time. When it is confronted by challenges it just doesnt have balls to stand up.It is a confused party which on crucial issues feels avoidance of action is the best action.

    Look at the case of Afzal-why is he still alive-because someone gave the idea to Congress that hanging him would anger minorities.So his case goes nowhere.His death punishment cant be curtailed either as this might generate indignation amongst people . So he stays in jail - his clemency petition to president is neither accepted nor rejected and the Congress takes refuge in the fact that there is long list of clemency cases before President.

    The curious case of Shivraj Patil.2008 became the only year in Indian history when there was an average of 1 bomb blast every month in a major Indian city.Yet the clown Shivraj Patil continued to claim that he enjoys the confidence of Sonia Ghandhi. There were always murmurs to remove him- but as always the Congress was confused-If it removes him it would imply non-performance of Government in fighting terrorism.Ultimately it took the Mumbai carnage to force his ouster.As Lalu Prasad commented after his resignation-"Ka Varsha jab krishi sukhane". what is the use of rain after the crops have dried up.

    The case of anti-terror law-Congress was fully aware that a tough anti terror law was required.some Congress CM's felt its necessity and brought new laws.Yet as the national ruling party it dithered on this issue.Again it took a carnage to shock them into action.

    Digging into past-The party dithered on Ayodhya issue. Remember it was Rajiv Ghandhi who had opened the gates of Ayodhya's disputed structure.Congress was dithering on the issue as it was not sure whose votes it was seeking Hindus or muslims on this issue.And by the time it made up its mind- it was out of the picture.

    The case of Shah Bano-The government simply became as feeble as the current Pakistani government is in dealing with Taliban when faced with a muslim backlash.

    Digging back further the nuclear bomb- it never made up its mind whether it wanted India to be a nuclear power or not.It kept the issue pending and buckled under US pressure.In fact the day after the Pokharan blasts under Vajpayee The Telegraph aptly carried the headline"India exploded nuclear veil".
    This headline sums up the difference between BJP and Congress.

    The China border issue-Nehru never fully made clear what his stand on border issue was.Sometimes he ordered forward policy sometimes he called for negotiations. His lack of vision costed India dear.

    The issue of Kashmir-I think Nehru never knew what he wanted in Kashmir. Going to UN was an example of the prevaricating attitude of Congress. It didn't knew what to do so it transfered the responsibility of decision making on some other party.

    In fact I claim that prevarication is inbuilt in Congress culture , its way of thinking. Except for Mrs Gandhi , Congress has always been indecisive when faced with a major challenge. Its preferred approach had always been to let the issue blow way instead of confronting it.

    So yes by its prevaricating approach congress screws big time.:sad:
     
  2. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Congress - Spineless

    BJP - Too much radical which in turn threatens the National image and future integrity of India

    Left Front (primarily CPM) - Led by hypocrites and non reliable people, to them interest of nation or constitution always comes second

    Whom shall I vote???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    This is perhaps one of the frankest confessionals and most candid posts I've ever seen. Enjoyed reading it thoroughly. I'd give you a double 'thumbs up' if the forum let me.

    Well done
     
  4. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    True, one of the frankest posts around...
     
  5. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    If this is your view then don't bother about the party, just vote for the candidate who ll do a better job for your region, who is less likely to marginalise a community after elections (before elections is relatively fine, everyone will get communal support to get in power) and who ll be personally beneficial for your business etc., simple as that. In all probably, all of the candidates will be corrupt if they have reached LS election level, however vote for the one who is corrupt to a lesser extent, but not if he is not good at developement, I'd rather have someone who gets the area developed better and fills his own pocket also as opposed to someone who is corruption free but undynamic and will twiddle his thumbs for 5 years.

    Above all, use your common sense and discretion, its universal ADULT franchise for a reason, you are expected to be mature enough to decide who's the lesser evil. Good luck ;)
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Lesser evil? There arent any i suppose. But I do agree to one thing is that if someone develops a region and thereby make some money, then im game for that. But not someone who pockets all the money and does nothing and also someone who doesnt either of it.
    Deve Gowda comes to my mind when i think of someone who makes all the money but does nothing, another is Mayawati who is a step further than Gowda.
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    BSP has done more work for UP than anyother party, Greater NOIDA, Taj Expressway are Mayawati's babies for eg, Kanpur is cleaner than it ever was etc .. this doesn't mean she has done an awful lot though, another thing, her decision to punish those constituencies where her party loses and reward those where her party wins is something which I am vehemently against..
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    What about those not extorting enough money for her birthdays and filling her coffers?
     
  9. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Possible... but still better than the goondas of SP...Mulayam Singh Yadav's extortion terror is the stuff legends are made of..
     
  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    So thats my point in my earlier post. We dont know who the lesser evil is these days.
    Heck if we have educated young chaps talking about chopping hands, then its really going to be tough to decide who the lesser evil is.
     
  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Absolutely.... unfortunately....
     
  12. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

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    Its not in the domain of government, its a issue for our courts, and its best they handle it.
    The problem is bigger as the government can have a say in such matters and its a flaw in our system that we must remove.
    All political faction have done the same and also much worse.
    The thing is, nothing different is being done now that Patil is gone, and nothing different was done before he was in Office.
    These laws have not worked before, what we need is a system that was actively hunting terrorists down.

    With a record of tremendous corruption we should be afraid of more power to central and state authorities as much as we are of terror.
    Are we in the realm of controversies now, because I do not know what really happened.
    What is so unique about this? We have several such laws that discriminate between two human beings, where are the check in the system that ensure equality for all and why has any other political faction not done anything to make sure that the system is corrected?
    Its not like BJP magically decided that the nuclear weapon was neccessary and went against the advice of all political, diplomatic, scientific and economic analysts to do so.

    The way i see it back in the 60s we had a lot of issues to deal with and that era was filled with War and international balancing,

    In the 70-80s we executed the program and were stuck in the cold war, a nation seen as a soviet ally would have attracted a lot of attention if it were to go on a full scale nuclear program, besides we had some support from Soviets for the time being and nuclear blackmail was not a easy option for our opponents.

    This changed after the soviets fall and we were back to the rope balancing, In the early 90s Rao had the great pleasure of residing over a economic crisis which stopped a lot of things, and our nuclear program was not exactly secret.

    Its not like he did not try.
    http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/nuclear-secrets-nara-8586.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/15/world/us-suspects-india-prepares-to-conduct-nuclear-test.html
    http://www.boloji.com/opinion/0541.htm

    It was a national issue and the time was right, thankfully BJP was in center they are the perfect political party to take such decisions.
    You talk of Gandhi's and Nehru's as if they had some one point power over our nation, people who did things without the effect of the surrounding world on them.

    Not that i really care now that i think about it, a BJP led government can not get the seats on its own, they will require support and that will control them.

    This is sad in someways, in my view we have to contain the power of political parties in the coming decades, a lot is wrong with the set up, and irrespective of who has the power at the centre this will keep on biting us.

    It will be good to see whoever comes to power manage the economic crisis, interesting times.
     
  13. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    Isn't the Noida region fast becoming a crime capital? As for developement , IIRC Taj Corridor is now defunt and GN's progress is more due to its proximity to National Capital than anything else, this can be corraborated by the fact that Gurgaon in Haryana is also a developement hub, due to same reason.

    Of course, ideological politics is a misnomer but still, as I see it, all major political parties have at least in theory (in fact these days mostly in theory) some sort of an ideological base. This can be Congress' faith in secularism, backward class developement,non-alignment, economic liberalism etc., B.J.P.s national Unity, self reliance, Gandhian socialism, positive secularism etc., Left's Marxist-Leninst socialism etc. BSP's ideological base was Bahujan Samaj developement, with their current fielding of Brahmins in elections, social engineering and Sarvjan Samaj tone, they'v lost that also. Currently, BSP only has a social base, their ideological base is non-existent and I for one, cannot contemplate voting for a party with no ideology at all.
     
  14. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    Thats precisely my point, its a matter of personal preference, you have an individual right to vote because we live in a democracy and its your individual opinion which matters. Now then, if I was a Muslim in Pilibhit, or a Christian in Orissa, I would keep the safety of me and mine before anything else, look at the recent trends and vote for anyone but BJP, simple as that.
     
  15. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    No. The judiciary condemned him, its been a matter of Presedential Clemency since. Patil is a Congress puppet, she ll do as the govt. says. Kalam was neutral and he was not sent the petetion for re-review till his last day in office. It is absolutely clear that UPA didn't want Afzal to hang.

    Impossible, unless you change the whole constitution. The system is fine, can't think of any better system, its the functionaries who are flawed, do suggest what you are considering rectifying in the system.

    Then you are further augmenting the need for changing the govt.

    I personally prefer preventive legislations to punitive laws but to each his own, no issues.


    To begin with, Kalyan Singh was in power at the state and Narsimha Rao at the centre, lets start from there.

    Wrong again, read up on the case, The Law didn't discriminate, the law granted alimony to Shah Bano. The the Moslem fundamentalists inclding my dear favourite MJ Akbar erupted Rajiv Gandhi passed a law to appease Moslems, setting an extremely bad precedent, one that clearly reflects in Congresss current pseudo-secular nature. The secular judgement of the Supreme Court which could have paved the way for a future common law for all religions , somethig which I'd like to see, was screwed as a result.

    Its results that matter, not intentions. BJP gets credit for the tests, just like UPA gets credit for the current nuclear deal. Needs, analysis, diplomacy etc. is irrelevant.
    Till about the late 80's, yes, it was largely like that. In fact they would have liked nothing better than treating the country like their family business, unfortunately for them, it didn't quite turn out that way.
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Ghaziabad is worse than Noida and Greater Noida is Mayawati's "baby". Whenever Mayawati comes to power the prices here shoot up and whenever SP comes the prices crash.

    Taj Expressway is different from Taj Corridor. (Ganga Expressway too)

    Of course, Noida is close to Delhi hence. Urban agglomeration is always desirable, hence the term NCR.

    That is of course your viewpoint and a valid one at that. None of the UP regional parties like SP, BSP have an ideological base, they all have a caste base.

    When talking about UP, a common man there would imo rather vote for someone who does some good irresp whether they have an ideology or not. In this case BSP has done more work imo than SP or BJP.
    Again if that person views castes as an important criteria. BSP appeals to the brahmins and dalits(muslim included) the 2 "oppressed" communities of not only UP but India.
     
  17. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

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    That is what i stated
    " Its not in the domain of government, its a issue for our courts, and its best they handle it.
    The problem is bigger as the government can have a say in such matters and its a flaw in our system that we must remove.
    All political faction have done the same and also much worse."
    Thats the thing, the problem, we should never assume the functionaries to be flawed, untill that is done we will not be free of these situations.

    Ok let me take that back a bit more, there is nothing different being done in the home ministry under the UPA, there was nothing different being done in the home ministry under the NDA, and there is nothing that will happen differently under the next government.

    OK lets start, and the carrier politician from the place i belong to (chamoli), was in Ayodhya, along with his brigade, he was there once or twice every year before the trouble started along with a lot of other politicians. politicians take steps very cautiously.
    Ya, i wont know about the shah bano, cause googling about it is that difficult.

    "The Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) Act, 1986"
    Here it is and it discriminates.

    Politicians with too much power, till that is the situation we will face problems.

    :rofl:
    Right so in your opinion till the 80s the population choose near dictators, while the rest of the politicians in their party stood by to serve them?
     
  18. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    That is my contention also, common man forms the social base, intelligentsia guides the social base through ideology, the very nature of democracy is such that the social base will always be more important, BSP's stratergy is just the most active proponent of this, they ignore the ideology completely.
     
  19. Auberon

    Auberon Regular Member

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    I see, so you are for removing the provision of Presidential pardon?
    Also, which other govt. has actively tried to prevent the hanging of a convicted terrorist?


    Ummm, so politicians should never be assumed to be at fault?



    Well no, Patil was pretty much in a league of his own, but still, its your view, good for you, personally consider it a very passive approach, but no sweat.

    My point is that BJP or Advani or anyone else cannot be exclusively blamed for Ayodhya, whats your point?

    By The Law I meant the judiciary, the SC granted alimony to Shah Bano, Rajiv Gandhi passed this law that you state, and its a discriminatory law. You are just repeating what I said.

    Bestow your wisdom in this regard also, so we should restrict the powers of parliament to amend laws?


    Another excellent argument, does you much good :Laie_63A:

    Depends on what time frame you are looking at, seeing how powerful the Nehru-Gandhi family was, yes, it is my opinion that they had way too much power centred amongst them, and no, the people didn't choose near dictators, but ol' Indira did do her mighty best to become one.
     
  20. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

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    Yes, and as long as we are at it, removing the president too.

    None that i can think of, however this is something that can happen in future, i have personally heard BJP leaders going on and on about the bajrang dal, we have to contain this.
    Ofcourse its their fault, its also my fault and its our fault, we do not import our politicians, and its been 60 years already.
    Just like congress can not be blamed for the riots in delhi, and BJP can not be blamed for gujarat, sure, all political factions have blood on their hands.
    Thats was the point i was taking about the law that was passed by congress and that its just wrong that government can pass these laws which infringne on the rights of people.
    With out that it would not be a problem.


    Yup, i dont trust them to do much good with it, send the issues to the judiciary (and increase its size while you are at it.
    now that Needs, analysis, diplomacy etc. is irrelevant, its a great argument.:sarcastic:

    dont really know, i was not even born back then and the available literature varies a lot in describing the events.

    Kindly expand on your views, or provide a link to some similar online debate.
     

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