Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic growth

nimo_cn

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

For people who talk about "logic" the conclusions reached are laughable.

There is absolutely no evidence to judge what background most Indians come from unless they admit it.

The desperate attempts by Chinese posters to change the subject to India when we are talking about China is a standard ploy to avoid the subject of problems in China. How many of you are paid by the Chicom government to do that on here. I bet at least one of you is on the Chicom payroll :rofl:

As an experiment, I will start a thread about China where I say only good things about China and curse India every now and again. i expect that all Chiese posters will be perfectly happy and only add to the laughter and joy and not try and change the subject. And the Chicom payroll troll withearn a few brownies from his tinpot employers

If DFI is a great place to learn about Indians, then it is an equally great place to learn about the Chinese. All Chinese get so uncomfortable when someone says something negative about Chhina that the must immediately try and change the subject to India
if we check all the posts by Indians on China related threads, we are gonna find out that they all talk about the issues as if they were not indians. sweatshops, low salaries, etc, these words are the ones they use to describe China.

but how about India? work conditions in India are better? Indian workers are being paid better that their Chinese counterparts? these questions must be answered before we proceed.

whenever the discussions come to this point, our Indian fellows become incredibly shy and defensive. i guess they finally realize that they are Indians and have to talk as Indians and that will put them in a very embarrassing position, because we all know that India lags behind China in almost every aspect.

if work conditions are worse and salaries are lower in India, then between China and India, which has the real sweatshops?

i dont mind you taking China into discussions related to India as long as Chinese posters are involved in the discussions.

i certainly will bring India into the context as long as Indian posters are engaged in the discussions.

it's not just about what are being discussed, but also who are discussing.

Indian posters' attempts to block the discussion of their own country in almost every China related threads that were started by themselves are signs of weakness and inferiority complex.

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Ray

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

if we check all the posts by Indians on China related threads, we are gonna find out that they all talk about the issues as if they were not indians. sweatshops, low salaries, etc, these words are the ones they use to describe China.

but how about India? work conditions in India are better? Indian workers are being paid better that their Chinese counterparts? these questions must be answered before we proceed.

whenever the discussions come to this point, our Indian fellows become incredibly shy and defensive. i guess they finally realize that they are Indians and have to talk as Indians and that will put them in a very embarrassing position, because we all know that India lags behind China in almost every aspect.

if work conditions are worse and salaries are lower in India, then between China and India, which has the real sweatshops?

i dont mind you taking China into discussions related to India as long as Chinese posters are involved in the discussions.

i certainly will bring India into the context as long as Indian posters are engaged in the discussions.

it's not just about what are being discussed, but also who are discussing.

Indian posters' attempts to block the discussion of their own country in almost every China related threads that were started by themselves are signs of weakness and inferiority complex.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
Come, come, don't use plaintive and pathetic wailing on extraneous issue to keep the pot on the boil and away from the embarrassing issue of sweatshops of China, the horrendous working conditions, and suicides.

Don't conflate issues with India.

There are enough on India raised by the Chinese posters as threads.

The thread is about Xi and necessity to change the system for growth.

Growth without social responsibility is a dangerous prescription to follow and that is what is being articulated.
 
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kseeker

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Can Xi become Chini's Gorbachev ?

Will Xi be China's Gorbachev?

Roderick MacFarquhar - Financial Times12 Apr, 7:06 AM

The Little Red Book is no more. With the abandonment in effect of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought during the churning capitalism of the reform era, China no longer has an ideology encompassing state and society, and legitimising the party's right to lead the people.

As he took over as president this year, Xi Jinping instead appealed to patriotism as a motivating force and the promise of the "Chinese dream". But more than it needs a national renaissance, the country needs to fight corruption.

In a valedictory address, President Hu Jintao said that a failure to do so "could prove fatal to the party and even cause the collapse of the party and the fall of the state". And incoming Premier Li Keqiang said: "Since we have chosen public office we should give up all thought of making money."

So far Xi and Li have pursued easier objectives, ordering officials to abandon high-style living. But already there are reports that some official departments are turning their canteens into luxury restaurants so that they can enjoy banquets without public scrutiny.

As Chinese citizens often point out, in practice the regime goes after the small fry but is leery of targeting corruption in the higher ranks. An example has been made of a few minor officials. From now on, a corrupt cadre will no longer flash his luxury watch.

But the downfall of Bo Xilai last year revealed how a politburo member could parlay a modest official salary into an extravagant lifestyle and an expensive foreign education for his son.

Investigations by Bloomberg and The New York Times have revealed the vast wealth accumulated by Xi's relatives, by former Premier Wen Jiabao's wife and son, and by the descendants of the "eight immortals", Deng Xiaoping and those old revolutionary colleagues who survived the Maoist era. This is no longer a problem of a few robber barons. The upper ranks of Chinese society now constitute a robber baronage.

Corruption above enables corruption below, where it has an immediate impact on ordinary citizens. Some doctors and teachers demand that they receive payment before performing their duties. Officials bundle peasants off the land in order to sell to and receive kickbacks from businesspeople, whose factories then pollute the air and rivers. Such cases are often the cause of the 500 or so protests, demonstrations or riots that take place every day in China.

For Xi to transform so corrupt a system from top to bottom would make cleansing the Augean stables simplicity itself. The political implications would be dire. As some Chinese people have interpreted Hu's words: if we don't tackle corruption, China will be doomed – but if we do tackle corruption the party will be doomed.

Some Chinese intellectuals have hopes for political reform. Three possibilities have been mentioned: first, ending the hukou system, which confines people to their place of origin and prevents peasants from enjoying rights in urban areas; second, ending re-education through labour, which enables the police arbitrarily to impose three-year sentences for petty crimes; and, third, ending the one-child policy, which has already ensured that there will be a significant diminution in the labour force in the years ahead.

Any one of these would diminish the power of local officials, who are already likely to be under fire for their bloated budgets. Despite the enormous national bank balances that China has accumulated, local spending sprees, which were encouraged so that the impact of the world recession could be softened, are now seen as a threat to the national economy.

Xi does not know which reform would constitute removing the disturbance that starts an avalanche and endangers party rule, so perhaps better not to attempt meaningful measures. He does not want to go down in history as China's Mikhail Gorbachev. He intends to bind party and army tightly together, so that in an emergency the People's Liberation Army would defend the party as it did in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

The Xi regime has to hope that the Mao mystique, economic progress, a robust foreign policy and sheer inertia will maintain the tattered legitimacy of the party-state. The sad fact is that over the past two centuries, massive change in China has taken place only as a result of national trauma. The reform process that led to the overthrow of the last imperial dynasty in 1912 was triggered by the shock of defeat by little Japan in the war of 1894-95.

The abandonment of Soviet economics and Maoist politics by Deng from 1979 came in the wake of the trauma of the cultural revolution. The next great political reform to come to China could be the end of Leninist one-party rule – but for that to be accomplished without trauma, China would need at the very least a leader who put the needs of the nation above the perpetuation of the party.

The writer is a professor of history and political science at Harvard University.

Copyright The Financial Times 2013.
 

kseeker

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

You mean be the harbinger of ruining China? As Gorbu did to USSR?
I would welcome both, however, 2nd option is better ;)
 

amoy

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

rather than great expectation of anther Gorbachev, practically there might be

- roll-out of property tax nationwide, but be prepared to face mid class complaint

- laxation of "family planning" or so-called one-child policy, but the real challenge is the low birth rate has more to do with lifestyle than "policy" nowadays.

- urbanization along with reformed Hukou restriction. however, it may over stress the resources if equal benefits r granted to non-Hukou residents.

- land reform in part seems more like a "modernized " collective farming (kibutz / commune in Mao era) so that weak individuals r able to group together on a larger scale to weather ups and downs by means of such as share-holding.

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
 

kseeker

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

- laxation of "family planning" or so-called one-child policy, but the real challenge is the low birth rate has more to do with lifestyle than "policy" nowadays.
China and Low birth rate ? :shocked: Could you please elaborate it ?
 

amoy

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

China and Low birth rate ? :shocked: Could you please elaborate it ?
everything is relative - to give u a glance



and birth rate has to be in breakdown, urban vs. rural, coastal vs. inland, and so on.

as reported only becoz of inflow, Shanghai pop. for example is not on the decline.
 
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cw2005

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

China, likes all other nations, is having its share of problem in economical issues. It is very normal to have a problem. However, I have been having problem to find out if this forum is domicile in USA or not. It seems to me the forum works hard to promote mutual distrust between Indian and Chinese as if it is the duty to do so. I also notice that some Chinese members here praise the Chinese achievements but very few post the problems of India. In fact, the Chinese members have no interest to understand India's problems and discuss their possible solution. It turns this forum into India vs. China all the time and it is unhealthy. I would like to see both countries could identify each others' weakness and strength so that they could avoid repeating the mistakes and imitate the successes. Don't forget the "Divide and Conquer" policy of the current powers.
 

Ray

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Birth should be controlled.

The one child is going to cause issues since there will be very few able bodied to take over the huge employment that has been generated.

The birth should be scientifically controlled so that there is an equitable replacement for those retiring.
 

Ray

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

China, likes all other nations, is having its share of problem in economical issues. It is very normal to have a problem. However, I have been having problem to find out if this forum is domicile in USA or not. It seems to me the forum works hard to promote mutual distrust between Indian and Chinese as if it is the duty to do so. I also notice that some Chinese members here praise the Chinese achievements but very few post the problems of India. In fact, the Chinese members have no interest to understand India's problems and discuss their possible solution. It turns this forum into India vs. China all the time and it is unhealthy. I would like to see both countries could identify each others' weakness and strength so that they could avoid repeating the mistakes and imitate the successes. Don't forget the "Divide and Conquer" policy of the current powers.
This is an Indian owned and operated forum from India.

It is no one's duty to promote anything.

This is a free country and so opinions vary.

Chinese posters do post 'problems' of India. Apparently, you have missed them.

No one dislike the Chinese people as such. They are good people. It is just that the Chinese Govt does not seem to understand India and India does not understand the Chinese Govt.

Even in the India vs China series, I found there is much to learn that is not usually mentioned.
 
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bennedose

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

i dont mind you taking China into discussions related to India as long as Chinese posters are involved in the discussions.
Boss this is an internet discussion board. Not communist China. You are not going to dictate what I do and I cannot diacte what you mightwanty to do. I can only point out that Chinese posters bring up India in a thread about China every time they get uncomfortable.

What you do in other threads is your business and what you mind and don't mind is your problem. Fact is the "defensiveness" is much a Chinese characteristic as an Indian one. Naturally no one likes criticism. But Chinese are unique because they get defensive only after denial. Initially it is denial and a change of subject to India. Only after some pressure they get defensive. And some questions are not answered at all.

Here are two such questions:
1. Are Chinese individuals allowed to buy and own private property in China?
2. Do Chinese pay income tax?
Bringing India into the picture does not answer these questions.
 

bennedose

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Maybe you should check a few peer reviewed sources once in a while. Even China's migrant workers enjoy better working conditions and salaries than Indian labour.
It always makes me laugh to see one Chinese internet warrior speak as if he knows what is happening to 1.3 billion people and that the other guy has to get peer reviewed sources.

You and I are both discussing generalities here. I am not defending anything in India because this thread is about China. Speaking about India with peer reviewed sources or rumors is of no use if you are unable to stick to the subject.

Don't dish out this claptrap about Chinese labor. Chinese labor comes in many varieties including prison labor. You are referring to "Chinese migrant workers". Which Chinese migrant workers? Where? Be specific. At least one other guy posted a 70 page article for me to read. I read it and found it very interesting and also found that you are bluffing here as per that article. Not all Chinese migrants want to migrate because they are not entitled to urban Hukou even as they lose their land. And not all of them have jobs. And as for those who are not migrants - there is a specific unemployment rate depending on the place . many cities don;t have the funds to give migrants benefits. Let me see you read up some peer reviewed papers and post rather than simply try and brush things off by talking about India. The truth may be different from what you believe and from what you want me to believe.

Come on. being an internet warrior ain't so easy. You won't be let off simply because you protest
 

ice berg

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Boss this is an internet discussion board. Not communist China. You are not going to dictate what I do and I cannot diacte what you mightwanty to do. I can only point out that Chinese posters bring up India in a thread about China every time they get uncomfortable.
And I can point out that your singular focus on China when it is much worse in India is a classical inferiority complex.
Problems in India isnt gonna go away just because you point out those things in China
What you do in other threads is your business and what you mind and don't mind is your problem. Fact is the "defensiveness" is much a Chinese characteristic as an Indian one.
Thank god you admit it is human nature and Indians also have it! We are finally getting somewhere.
Naturally no one likes criticism. But Chinese are unique because they get defensive only after denial.

So you saying that Indians get defensive before denial? If so what is the big difference? You now an expert on psychology?
And here I thought you are plastic surgeon.
Initially it is denial and a change of subject to India. Only after some pressure they get defensive. And some questions are not answered at all.
I will like you to point out those denials.
Here are two such questions:
1. Are Chinese individuals allowed to buy and own private property in China?
2. Do Chinese pay income tax?
Bringing India into the picture does not answer these questions.
No, it does not. However the answers are easy to get if one can spend a few seconds on google.
try this:
1.Type private property in china
2.Type chinese income tax

Voila.
More questions that you cant find on your own?
 

Ray

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

No, it does not. However the answers are easy to get if one can spend a few seconds on google.
try this:
1.Type private property in china
2.Type chinese income tax

Voila.
More questions that you cant find on your own?
Why are you shy about telling us in a short manner than have us trawling a whole lot of junk?
 

bennedose

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

No, it does not. However the answers are easy to get if one can spend a few seconds on google.
try this:
1.Type private property in china
2.Type chinese income tax
Google is too easy. And all Chinese will deny whatever they want to deny and say "Get peer reviewed sources"

So your answer to my question is either
1. You don't know
2. You know but you don't want to say because I might use your answer to say something that embarrasses China.

Why are you guys so anxious? Why can't you give a straight reply to a straight question? Most of you guys probably don't even live in China. You are working outside China where you can do things that you don't want to talk about when it refers to China. Like buying private property. Paying income tax. And changing the government. If that is wrong - blame Google. That is a cop out.
 

bennedose

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

rather than great expectation of anther Gorbachev, practically there might be

- roll-out of property tax nationwide, but be prepared to face mid class complaint

- laxation of "family planning" or so-called one-child policy, but the real challenge is the low birth rate has more to do with lifestyle than "policy" nowadays.

- urbanization along with reformed Hukou restriction. however, it may over stress the resources if equal benefits r granted to non-Hukou residents.

- land reform in part seems more like a "modernized " collective farming (kibutz / commune in Mao era) so that weak individuals r able to group together on a larger scale to weather ups and downs by means of such as share-holding.
Good post. The low birth rate has been achieved both by coercion where a couple with a second child gets punished in some way, and by changes in lifestyle. I have read that this encouraged abortion clinics in China. Accidental second pregnancies are bound to occur so what disincentives are offered? Unless China freely allows second or third pregnanies and removes disincentives (if any) it cannot be said that lifestyle prevents people from having more than one child. In fact lifestyle may lead to women preferring not to have children at all as in some European countries. But childlessness is not seen as good in China as far as I know.

China now has 1.55 births per woman. That means a significant number of women are having (or have had) more than one child. I know that some ethnic groups - perhaps Tibetans and Uighurs do not have a one child policy enforced. Is that true?

What is meant by "roll out of property tax nationwide"?
 

ice berg

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Google is too easy. And all Chinese will deny whatever they want to deny and say "Get peer reviewed sources"

So your answer to my question is either
1. You don't know
2. You know but you don't want to say because I might use your answer to say something that embarrasses China.

Why are you guys so anxious? Why can't you give a straight reply to a straight question? Most of you guys probably don't even live in China. You are working outside China where you can do things that you don't want to talk about when it refers to China. Like buying private property. Paying income tax. And changing the government. If that is wrong - blame Google. That is a cop out.
If Google is too easy then why cant you spend a few seconds of your time to do it?
The answer is simple: You are lazy.
It is funny that you then defend your laziness by attack the messenger.
Pointing out your laziness is not been anxious.
 

ice berg

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

Why are you shy about telling us in a short manner than have us trawling a whole lot of junk?
I expect grown ups to find those easily available information on the internet.
In other words, I have a high expectation of grown ups.

If you admit that you can unable to find those information because you are unfamiliar with search engines on the internet,
I will be glad to help.

Say please, Ray.
 

Ray

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Re: Without changing the system, Xi cannot guarantee the economic gr

I expect grown ups to find those easily available information on the internet.
In other words, I have a high expectation of grown ups.

If you admit that you can unable to find those information because you are unfamiliar with search engines on the internet,
I will be glad to help.

Say please, Ray.
Let's say that you are prone to claiming something that is not the reality, to put it most politely.

Therefore, it is not the question of being past puberty, but credibility.

Credibility is a basic survival tool.
 

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