Will Washington Forment War Between China And India?

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
"xxx you would know that the nation of Pakistan was a creation of the West, and that the West was not willing to abandon its creation by many means xxx"

An attempt to lump the US with the traditional bad guys. The US did not engineer or participate in the partition of the Indian subcontinent, GB did it.
US and UK were formal allies since WWII. They both had a common interest in creating Pakistan as a counterweight to Soviet influence in Central Asia; it was just a continuation of the Great Game. Why else would US pursue a close strategic relationship with Pakistan as early as the 50s, giving them F-86 fighter jets, advanced Patton tanks, and other weapons that were supposed to be restricted to NATO allies? The West knew that Pakistan would instantly ally with them for the sake of military assistance and a security blanket against India, while they also knew that the Indian leadership with Nehru at the top held on to the naive (but noble) idea of non-alignment and a "Third Path" for India. They couldn't have asked for anything better. The Nehruvian concept of non-alignment was not broken until the late 60s, when India had no choice but to ally with the USSR to counter the combined threat of USA/PRC. Indira Gandhi formally put an end to Indian non-alingment in 1971, when she signed the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation.


BTW, you're USSR antics are showing through. "Counterbalance" the US, why do you need to counterbalance the US?
Any superpower needs to be counterbalanced (yes, that applies for the USSR too). A unipolar world is always a dangerous world. I prefer a multipolar world.


The truth is India did not actually chose the "or" side during the Cold War. It was well inside the USSR's camp.
Read first part of my post. India was truly non-aligned until the late 60s. In fact, India's arsenal during the 1965 Indo-Pak War consisted almost entirely of Western weapons (though Pakistan's weapons were more advanced).


That's why for USSR fans like you there's so much inmity against the US after the collapse of the USSR. This is the source of all this talk about "cannot be trusted" nonsense.
LOL. Learn how to spell mate. It's "enmity", not "inmity".


Even you cannot dispute that more countries become properous during the time that the US was the most dominant power than at any other time in history.
That may be true, but is has very little to do with the U.S. The 20th century saw huge rises in living standards for people across the world due to tremendous advances in technology. U.S. politics had nothing to do with it.


For me this speaks volume about the positive influence of the US. Yes, the US committed mistakes but I think the US by and large has been a global force of good. If given the choice to decie in behalf of any country I would hedge my bet on the side of the US just like how the South Koreans, Japanese, Singaporeans, and Chinese (to a lesser degree) have done. No way I am going to ally with the likes of Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and the likes. They're sore losers.
Spoken like a true Anglophile.

Now, if you want, I can make a seperate thread on how much the world has suffered due to Anglo-American foreign policy to disprove all the ridiculous claims of "US being a force for good", but I would rather not let this thread degenerate into a huge rhetorical pissing contest.
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
"That may be true, but is has very little to do with the U.S. The 20th century saw huge rises in living standards for people across the world due to tremendous advances in technology. U.S. politics had nothing to do with it."

Yeah, everything bad is engineered by the US and the West while everything good is not their making. Pathetic denialism. Even India's late rise is due in no small part to closer investment relations with the US. China is another glaring example. ONly when China opened its doors to US investments that it started growing. Look around you, the positive influence of the West are all over you. Of course, you cannot wake up an already awake person.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AOE

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
"A unipolar world is always a dangerous world. I prefer a multipolar world."

Please review your World History. The most dangerous and deadly periods in history where the times when the world was at the so called "multipolar" eras: WW1, WW2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AOE

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
"Now, if you want, I can make a seperate thread on how much the world has suffered due to Anglo-American foreign policy to disprove all the ridiculous claims of "US being a force for good", but I would rather not let this thread degenerate into a huge rhetorical pissing contest."

Shades of Chavez and Ahmadinejad?
 

AOE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
437
Likes
23
Allying with the US does not equal economic advancement. Otherwise, Haiti and Colombia would be first world countries.
No, but free market capitalism which has been championed by many in the US has been the building blocks for numerous economies that were allied to the US at one point or another.

If India allied with the U.S. in 1947, we would end up as bad as African and Latin American countries.
India wasn't and already enjoyed a level of poverty akin to many African and Latin American countries for decades.

Third World countries are better off non-aligned.
Yes, because Nehrus NAM was clearly a winner in terms of foreign policy, a long with his centralization and enlargement of government; which I hear many other Indians here are extremely fond of due to its corruption. Such a government also helped to keep India in a state of little growth and prosperity, which goes to show that Socialism doesn't work.

I think India should milk the Americans and get as much technology from them as possible. I'm talking civilian tech, of course, as the Americans won't give us ToT on military tech.
You see, it's arguments like these that sometimes make me not surprised as to why India doesn't receive this kind of military technology from the US. Whatever happened to fighting the evil, selfish mentalities of colonialism and imperialism, or do you want your country to become a second China?

An alliance with the strong is never to be trusted.
Interesting point, Nehru must have seen the light of this wisdom by his recognition of the PRC in 1949 and the alliance with the Soviet Union. Never trust the strong, unless they're communist dictatorships, lol.
 
Last edited:

AOE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
437
Likes
23
Shades of Chavez and Ahmadinejad?
lol, Chavez and Ahmadinejad are great sources of entertainment. I especially liked Chavez's video where he tried to insult Bush and came off sounding dumber than his target; like a drunken 14 year old.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
Yeah, everything bad is engineered by the US and the West while everything good is not their making. Pathetic denialism. Even India's late rise is due in no small part to closer investment relations with the US. China is another glaring example. ONly when China opened its doors to US investments that it started growing. Look around you, the positive influence of the West are all over you. Of course, you cannot wake up an already awake person.
I don't know why you're talking about stuff you have no idea about. India's rise is due to U.S. investment? Kindly read a book or two and get back to me. I don't have time to debate with completely ignorant people.


"A unipolar world is always a dangerous world. I prefer a multipolar world."

Please review your World History. The most dangerous and deadly periods in history where the times when the world was at the so called "multipolar" eras: WW1, WW2.
If Germany, Austria-Hungary, etc. had nuclear weapons, there would be no WWI.

Thanks to nuclear deterrence and MAD, the Cold War was free of overt conflict between the superpowers. In a multipolar world, there would be no overt conflicts either, and far less proxy conflicts as well (since the world would not be polarized into two "camps" as it was in the Cold War).


"Now, if you want, I can make a seperate thread on how much the world has suffered due to Anglo-American foreign policy to disprove all the ridiculous claims of "US being a force for good", but I would rather not let this thread degenerate into a huge rhetorical pissing contest."

Shades of Chavez and Ahmadinejad?
Guy, it was a request to save this thread, not a request for a lame ad hominem.

Is everyone who disagrees with you a brainchild of Chavez and Ahmadinejad? If you're going to compare me with someone, at least compare me with someone I respect. Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Subhash Chandra Bose, Stokely Carmichael, etc.


Also, please try to condense your response into one post, instead of three. Thanks.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
No, but free market capitalism which has been championed by many in the US has been the building blocks for numerous economies that were allied to the US at one point or another.
Free market capitalism is not the miraculous solution for all the world's problems. There are times where capitalism have ruined a country, and there are times where it has greatly advanced it. It depends on many factors, the context of the time, and the conditions prevailing in the country.


India wasn't and already enjoyed a level of poverty akin to many African and Latin American countries for decades.
Today, in 2011, India is better off than most African and Latin American allies of the U.S. Many of these African/Latin American countries have been allied with the U.S. for decades. Why haven't they progressed far past India, which apparently ruined the livelihoods of its people by allying with the evil Soviet Union?

A political alliance with America has absolutely nothing to do with socioeconomic advancement.


Yes, because Nehrus NAM was clearly a winner in terms of foreign policy, a long with his centralization and enlargement of government; which I hear many other Indians here are extremely fond of due to its corruption. Such a government also helped to keep India in a state of little growth and prosperity, which goes to show that Socialism doesn't work.
It's obvious that you don't know much about India's history from 1947-1991 (or actually, in any time period) so I suggest in the strongest possible terms to refrain from making comments on this. It's for your own sake.


You see, it's arguments like these that sometimes make me not surprised as to why India doesn't receive this kind of military technology from the US. Whatever happened to fighting the evil, selfish mentalities of colonialism and imperialism, or do you want your country to become a second China?
I want India to adopt useful Western qualities and use them to eventually surpass the West. Geopolitical selfishness and ruthless pursuit of one's interests are very important Western qualities that India should adopt.

btw, USA doesn't transfer its critical military technology to ANYONE, not even its most trusted allies like the U.K. Which is why I support the Indo-Russian defence relationship. People may complain about price negotiations and service delays with the Russians, but at least we get everything that we ask for, with all the necessary technology. The day America is willing to give India its aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, hypersonic cruise missiles, stealth fighters, etc. WITH all the necessary tecnology transfer for domestic production, I will change my opinion.


Interesting point, Nehru must have seen the light of this wisdom by his recognition of the PRC in 1949 and the alliance with the Soviet Union. Never trust the strong, unless they're communist dictatorships, lol.
I hope you realize that recognizing a nation and allying with them are not the same thing. Even you must know that.

And again, please refrain from posting things that you don't know about. It's a request. I already explained to the ignorant Malaysian guy that India was truly non-aligned until the late 60s. Nehru truly did believe in non-alignment, but he was naive and had an ego bigger than Mt.Everest. That was his eventual downfall.
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
I see champions of "democracy and freedom" are out in full force yet again. what a circus!

South korea is a puppet of usa...hopefully we dont go down that path and instead develop ourselves.
 

amitkriit

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
2,463
Likes
1,927
How can Washington Forment any war? He died in 1799(I don't believe in poltergeists). India and China will fight only if they want to fight on a serious issue, they are not kids any more who can be lured into something by a breadcrumb trail.

By the way there is something wrong with the word "Forment", I don't think this is a standard English Dictionary word. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
Last edited:

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
Roma is right. It's either here or there, you cannot choose "or." When you chose "or" you get nothing and win no friends.
?? don remember saying that - what i did say was to try to define a "close" realtionship with the usa and th prefer an "appropriate" relationship

in recent years the usa has tried to get india to counterbaalance china and found that it was the fastest way to clear a conference room !! i think those conferencers were shrewd - it's good to be a friend of the usa - in fact very good - but never be part of their puppetry system - well done to them for being shrewd.
 

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
How can Washington Forment any war? He died in 1799(I don't believe in poltergeists). India and China will fight only if they want to fight on a serious issue, they are not kids any more who can be lured into something by a breadcrumb trail.

By the way there is something wrong with the word "Forment", I don't think this is a standard English Dictionary word. Correct me if I am wrong.

you seem to be right about the incorrect spelling - all i can say is it's in the original article - adds to my surprise about the "simpleton " quality of the article , even though it purports to come from a very high level source.
 

amitkriit

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
2,463
Likes
1,927
you seem to be right about the incorrect spelling - all i can say is it's in the original article - adds to my surprise about the "simpleton " quality of the article , even though it purports to come from a very high level source.
Actually I have seen this word "Forment" before, but most of the dictionaries don't contain this word.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
How can Washington Forment any war? He died in 1799(I don't believe in poltergeists). India and China will fight only if they want to fight on a serious issue, they are not kids any more who can be lured into something by a breadcrumb trail.

By the way there is something wrong with the word "Forment", I don't think this is a standard English Dictionary word. Correct me if I am wrong.
This guy is speaking American English.

Yankee English is gramatically incorrect, but I prefer it over British English, because the British/Aussie accent makes my ears hurt.

Also, by "Washington", he means the U.S. Govt in general (as in "Washington D.C.") not the person.
 

mattster

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
1,171
Likes
870
Country flag
This is one of the most idiotic articles I have ever seen. Its been attributed to a former high level official of the Reagan by a highly suspect website. Its a joke to think that the US wants a major conflict between India and China.

I highly suspect if this former official ever said these things - its sounds like an article written by someone who is senile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AOE

AOE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
437
Likes
23
Free market capitalism is not the miraculous solution for all the world's problems. There are times where capitalism have ruined a country, and there are times where it has greatly advanced it. It depends on many factors, the context of the time, and the conditions prevailing in the country.
I never said it was, that's a misrepresentation of my argument, but free market capitalism has proven itself to be one of the best economic systems; where as its parallel opposite system, socialism, has yet to show any major success.

Today, in 2011, India is better off than most African and Latin American allies of the U.S. Many of these African/Latin American countries have been allied with the U.S. for decades. Why haven't they progressed far past India, which apparently ruined the livelihoods of its people by allying with the evil Soviet Union?
Ignoring the fact the majority of these unsuccessful countries have been engaged in civil wars and destabilization for extended periods of time, but you just simply look at a country like Colombia and say 'well it's a free market US ally that isn't successful.' I could just as easily turn around and claim you know nothing of said countries histories as you seem to have on the same grounds.

A political alliance with America has absolutely nothing to do with socioeconomic advancement.
lol, you ignored the argument and repeated yourself. You stated India would be on the same level as many African/South American countries, yet as I said; India already enjoyed a similar level of poverty without ties to the US. It seems you made the same logical fallacy you tried to highlight.

It's obvious that you don't know much about India's history from 1947-1991 (or actually, in any time period) so I suggest in the strongest possible terms to refrain from making comments on this. It's for your own sake.
It's obvious you resort to ad hominems yourself when someone states a fact that doesn't agree with your own political views, and India has been a large benefactor to the liberalization (adoption of free market policies, away from socialism) that have been advocated by people in the west, particularly Milton Friedman. His same policies also helped to make China and Chile successes as well, the latter of which is a Latin American country you have ignored and is a US ally.

I want India to adopt useful Western qualities and use them to eventually surpass the West. Geopolitical selfishness and ruthless pursuit of one's interests are very important Western qualities that India should adopt.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

btw, USA doesn't transfer its critical military technology to ANYONE, not even its most trusted allies like the U.K. Which is why I support the Indo-Russian defence relationship. People may complain about price negotiations and service delays with the Russians, but at least we get everything that we ask for, with all the necessary technology. The day America is willing to give India its aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, hypersonic cruise missiles, stealth fighters, etc. WITH all the necessary tecnology transfer for domestic production, I will change my opinion.
I am aware of that, but you ignored the point. Even if they were capable of doing so, why would they given responses by people like you? You've already stated you want to milk them for all they are worth, and engage in colonialism/imperialism yourself.

It is also interesting to note you have stated on many occasions you would become pro-US if the Americans did this, it appears much of your 'historical knowledge' is grounded in geostrategic nonsense first, and historical accuracy second. While I have many criticisms of US foreign policy in the past and present, and can acknowledge they have behaved in a manner that is contrarian to the spread of democracy and freedom; I can see they have done enormous good in the same token. Russia or indeed the Soviet Union as it was known in the past, is yet to prove they have participated in the spreading of democrary and freedom to the extent of the US, or indeed at all. Indeed over 1 billion people have been liberated since WWII by the Americans, many of which had been under the jackboot tyranny of the Soviets in Eastern Europe. What has Russia done to match this greatness? Nothing. Instead, Russia today is a mafia state.

I hope you realize that recognizing a nation and allying with them are not the same thing. Even you must know that.
Indeed I do, and I would hope Nehru could have recognized that as well since he was fond of declaring "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" until the CCP showed that their own imperial ambitions for land is much more important than any perceived notion of brotherhood.

And again, please refrain from posting things that you don't know about. It's a request. I already explained to the ignorant Malaysian guy that India was truly non-aligned until the late 60s. Nehru truly did believe in non-alignment, but he was naive and had an ego bigger than Mt.Everest. That was his eventual downfall.
lol, Nehru visited the USSR in the 1950s, and relations could be seen as being developed earlier than the late 1960s, although yes technically India was non-aligned in this period. Even Nehru who co-founded the NAM built those relations, which actually goes to disprove your own statements in this regard towards asianobserve. This will not stop you from using personal attacks towards people who disagree with you, as is the tactics of someone with an agenda and not a quest for knowledge.
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
BTW, the champion of India's liberalisation and real economic development, PM Manmohan Singh, is working hard to ally himslef with the West (of course weighed down by USSR legacy gasbags like some of the posters here). Why is that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AOE

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,572
I never said it was, that's a misrepresentation of my argument, but free market capitalism has proven itself to be one of the best economic systems; where as its parallel opposite system, socialism, has yet to show any major success.
It's important that I point this out because some people criticize the socialism of the Nehruvian age, without understanding that free market capitalism would have destroyed the Indian economy in 1947. Domestic Indian industries were virtually non-existent at the time of Independence. Having free markets would mean that India would be flooded with foreign goods, and domestic Indian companies would be unable to compete and driven out of business. In the context of this time period, socialist protectionism was the best way to go, as it allowed domestic Indian companies to grow and build up without fear of external competition. By 1991, when India had opened its markets, there were domestic firms like Tata Group and Reliance Industries who were able to compete directly against Western companies.

Today, in 2011, Indian companies like Tata Steel are found all over the world. Tata Steel is one of the largest employers of workers in Britain and virtually owns the British steel industry. It would be unthinkable to see news like this in 1947: Steel giant Tata to axe 1,500 jobs from three UK factories | Mail Online


Ignoring the fact the majority of these unsuccessful countries have been engaged in civil wars and destabilization for extended periods of time, but you just simply look at a country like Colombia and say 'well it's a free market US ally that isn't successful.' I could just as easily turn around and claim you know nothing of said countries histories as you seem to have on the same grounds.
It's funny you mention that, when India faces two hostile neighbors (Pakistan and PRC), has been invaded five times since Independence, faces numerous internal insurgencies, and yet somehow still manages to be the fourth largest economy in the world with one of the highest GDP growth rates in the world. The security situation in India is as bad, if not worse, than most present-day Latin American nations (although probably not African ones). Perhaps there is another factor that you are not taking into account?

Anyway, you should study those civil wars and destabilization more closely, and you'll find out that many of them were either caused or supported by the U.S. For example, the U.S. supported the Contras during the Nicaraguan Civil War in the 80s, which destroyed the country.

I recommend you watch the film War on Democracy by John Pilger. It was made by an Australian, so hopely you won't dismiss it as propaganda.


lol, you ignored the argument and repeated yourself. You stated India would be on the same level as many African/South American countries, yet as I said; India already enjoyed a similar level of poverty without ties to the US. It seems you made the same logical fallacy you tried to highlight.
India's economy is growing faster than any of these U.S. allies, India's land is in the hands of Indians and not foreigners, and India has free and democratic elections and not a U.S.-backed dictatorship or sham elections.

So yes, I would say that India is much better off than any of those African or Latin American allies of the U.S., and it's a good thing we avoided political alignment with America in 1947, lest we become another Haiti or Guatemala.


It's obvious you resort to ad hominems yourself when someone states a fact that doesn't agree with your own political views, and India has been a large benefactor to the liberalization (adoption of free market policies, away from socialism) that have been advocated by people in the west, particularly Milton Friedman. His same policies also helped to make China and Chile successes as well, the latter of which is a Latin American country you have ignored and is a US ally.
Check out what happened in Chile on 11 September 1973, and the subsequent two decades. Americans were showing their love and spreading "freedom and democracy".

Chile's economy, as you probably don't know, is one of the most inequal in the world, where a small portion of the population control most of the output and consumption. Not my ideal of a "developed country".

One more thing I should add: India's government has never been toppled by a foreign coup, which seems to be a requirement for being an American "ally" in the Third World.


I am aware of that, but you ignored the point. Even if they were capable of doing so, why would they given responses by people like you? You've already stated you want to milk them for all they are worth, and engage in colonialism/imperialism yourself.
What, do U.S. policymakers hang around on this forum? lol

All strategic relationships are based on national self-interest. There was absolutely no historical or cultural affinity between India and the Soviet Union/Russia; we pursued that relationship because it was in our interest to do so. We got a steady stream of cheap but effective weapons, and we never had to worry about USSR/Russia placing sanctions on us.

And no, I do not want India to engage in colonialism/imperialism and massacre entire continents like Westerners did. Nor do I want India to annex a single inch of foreign land, not even from Pakistan. What I want is for India to act in its own interest first and foremost. This means pursuing relationships that are beneficial to India, regardless of ideological sentimentality or lack thereof. That's how the U.S. and other great powers rose to prominence, and that's how India will rise to prominence.


It is also interesting to note you have stated on many occasions you would become pro-US if the Americans did this, it appears much of your 'historical knowledge' is grounded in geostrategic nonsense first, and historical accuracy second. While I have many criticisms of US foreign policy in the past and present, and can acknowledge they have behaved in a manner that is contrarian to the spread of democracy and freedom; I can see they have done enormous good in the same token. Russia or indeed the Soviet Union as it was known in the past, is yet to prove they have participated in the spreading of democrary and freedom to the extent of the US, or indeed at all. Indeed over 1 billion people have been liberated since WWII by the Americans, many of which had been under the jackboot tyranny of the Soviets in Eastern Europe. What has Russia done to match this greatness? Nothing. Instead, Russia today is a mafia state.
I don't have much to say to this useless pile of rhetoric, except to laugh at the "1 billion people liberated" remark. From whose posterior did you pull that?


Indeed I do, and I would hope Nehru could have recognized that as well since he was fond of declaring "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" until the CCP showed that their own imperial ambitions for land is much more important than any perceived notion of brotherhood.
Indeed, Nehru should have acted more assertively in this regard. He should have invested more in the military and maintained a proper defence along the Himalayan frontier.


lol, Nehru visited the USSR in the 1950s, and relations could be seen as being developed earlier than the late 1960s, although yes technically India was non-aligned in this period. Even Nehru who co-founded the NAM built those relations, which actually goes to disprove your own statements in this regard towards asianobserve. This will not stop you from using personal attacks towards people who disagree with you, as is the tactics of someone with an agenda and not a quest for knowledge.
In the 50s, India enjoyed equally close relations with both the West and the USSR, so yes India was truly a neutral nation. Unlike Pakistan which was a Western ally from Day 1.

You haven't disproved anything, nor do you have any idea what you are talking about.
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
"Chile's economy, as you probably don't know, is one of the most inequal in the world, where a small portion of the population control most of the output and consumption. Not my ideal of a "developed country".

So this is the fault of the US? If this is your line of reasoning then the converse is true in its other puppets, like Japan and SK. The spectacular economic developments of these countries can be attributed "directly" to US medlings in their domestic affairs?

I think your assessment is a little too adventuristic. I always believe that the fate of each country is ultimately the product of its internal decisions, programs and culture, but all internal. Of course, I agree that it was wrong in the first place for the US to control these countries (it should have left them to wallow in their own miseries). But ultimately for me, the US may provide the background stability, or confusion (in the case of Chile and the rest of the desperados Latinos), which nations can take advantage of or perpetually lament over (escapism), but ultimately, if the country itself and its people are determined enough they will progress no matter who's in their doorstep.

Remember that the US bomb Japan almost into oblivion, then puppet controlled its politics and institutions, but somehow the Japanese progressed. Actually the experience of Chile is puny compared to the hardships that the Japanese encountered immediately after the war. The same thing with the South Koreans. The US controlled this other half of the Koreas and somehow despite this very OVERT control it progressed spectacularly! All the collective experiences of these "victim" Latin American countries are nothing compared to the hardships encountered by this two Asian success stories. Yet some people continue to point out to the world the bloated blame of the US in the failures of these countries... The real problem I think in these countries are cultural, maybe owing to their very strict Catholic backgrounds. The people there were too lazy (and resigned to their Almighty - "Blessed are the poor for they shall inherit the Kingdom of God") to work for their personal progress. The leftists on the other hand continue to banner these "oppressed" countries as a sign of American devilism... I guess this is where most Asian countries especially in SE and E Asia excel at, taking advantage of adversities (not cry babies). That's why they're successful.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top