Will there be a new MMRCA tender ?

[SajeevJino]

SEAD in libya

what a joke

who flown first wave of op in Libya

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

who flown first wave of op in Libya

what are libyas

AAD & Air combat Airforce capabilities ?

AAD & AIrforce of libya is a joke

 

[SajeevJino]

what are libyas

AAD & Air combat Airforce capabilities ?

AAD & AIrforce of libya is a joke

That shows you that much onlee. keep it . :thumb:

 

[smestarz]

we are not asking to be spoon-fed
oft-times all we need is tech for some intermediate steps, a small boost
and the rest we can figure out on our own

instead of D:I:Y: all on our own , it's faster if we buy tot , with the hidden
implication that otherwise we will reverse engineer it ourselves ( taking a longer time )

in such cases we can build the request for the tot into a larger contract
and we get it in a hidden form

now those who are tech savvy in that particular area will know what's going on
but still as regards overcoming the objections of the tech control regimes,
by embedding our requests as part of a larger contract,

that might just overcome some of the legal objetions .

We can understand the cost, but no one will want to part with their critical tech. For example, France will not part with Tech for AESA and SPECTRA as we can develop something better than that and it ends up compromising their fleet of planes (if we learn from SPECTRA and then we develop SAM that can actually counter SPECTRA)
The only country who does not mind sharing their tech so far is Israel as they are not very big players in some areas for example they do not manufacture planes at present but they manufacture radars for planes, and India has been an all weather friend for Israel mostly the BJP led govt.

The engine tech is what we should be looking at as that is our major Achilles heel, once we get the engine tech, I think nothing can stop India from becoming a defence export country.

 

[halloweene]

Important sentence from Dassault CEO today : "we will enhance rate production as soon as third (indian) order is signed to 2 planes/month".

 

[tarunraju]

I don't think so. If we bought 36x Rafale off-the-shelf, it means we plan to buy more, pending ToTs. The original MMRCA had a provision for 64 more units on top of the 126. So until we finish buying the 190th Rafale, I don't think there will be another MMRCA.

What I do, however, expect is an interesting 48-unit naval aircraft tender for IAC2, which will have a steam catapult flight-deck. Given that IAC2 can be expected only after 2022 in any shape or form, it would be embarrassing to arm it with MiG-29K.

 

[Apollyon]

HAL is even struggling to deliver 4 x Serial Production Tejas Mk-1 to IAF. I think before it was "end of this year" and now it is "end of this financial year".

More orders of Rafale will surely depend on the progress of LCA Mk-2. I hope ADA-HAL adhere to proposed timeline this time i.e, first flight in 2019 and Serial Production from 2022.

 

[Armand2REP]

When Modi made the deal for 36, he also promised Hollande that 30 more would be ordered so the final Rafale number will be 66. That is half MMRCA but IAF numbers are falling so fast, another 100+ aircraft order needs to be made somewhere either domestic or abroad.

 

[jaciunite2]

There is no defence manufacture in india who can build a plane like rafale in time.I am sure they will build it but not in time.And right now time is a critical matter for IAF.We will need 150 Planes on time.like it or not no tejas nor fgfa gonna scrap a deal to buy other planes in quantities.I think all the planes which india will buy is going to come through TOT.And I am telling you the planes are going to be rafale.

 

[halloweene]

What is for sure is that people from Dassault are still working on "make in India", whatever the legal way it will be.

 

[Jangaruda]

HAL is getting increasingly stupid.. Evn after so many years of experience they still haven't learnt anything worthwhile.. All this talk abt India emerging as a superpower means that we create our own damn weapons.... HAL must be pushed very hard to complete indigenious projects on schedule...

 

[rohit b3]

The IAF needs replacement for about 150 Mig21s and 80 Mig27s
All 80 Mig27s will be replaced by incoming Su-30MKIs by 2019.
150 Mig21s will be replaced by 120 Tejas and 36 Rafales - 156 Aircrafts.

Atleast 83 Tejas mk2 will start induction from 2025 and 144 FGFAs soon after that.

In the Year 2025, there would definately be a shortfall with the Combat Aircraft size to fall to 650 Aircrafts. Hope they dont use that as an excuse to start the MMRCA now.
The shortfall arises cause about 50 oldest Mig21 models were retired in 2014.
However as Tejas mk2 enters service in 2025 and FGFA soon after that...the numbers will begin to rise. Atleast 83 Tejas mk2 and 144 FGFA would be ordered, and the entire lot should be used to raise the numbers.

Jaguars(from 2030 onwards), Mig29 and Mirage2000(from 2040 onwards) should solely by replaced by the AMCA.

Conclusion - They might try to fit in a "MMRCA" using the aircraft shortfall excuse. However, if no tangible progress takes place on that within the next year, most likely it wont happen.

 

[Jangaruda]

The IAF needs replacement for about 150 Mig21s and 80 Mig27s
All 80 Mig27s will be replaced by incoming Su-30MKIs by 2019.
150 Mig21s will be replaced by 120 Tejas and 36 Rafales - 156 Aircrafts.

Atleast 83 Tejas mk2 will start induction from 2025 and 144 FGFAs soon after that.

In the Year 2025, there would definately be a shortfall with the Combat Aircraft size to fall to 650 Aircrafts. Hope they dont use that as an excuse to start the MMRCA now.
The shortfall arises cause about 50 oldest Mig21 models were retired in 2014.
However as Tejas mk2 enters service in 2025 and FGFA soon after that...the numbers will begin to rise. Atleast 83 Tejas mk2 and 144 FGFA would be ordered, and the enter lot should be used to raise the numbers.

Jaguars(from 2030 onwards), Mig29 and Mirage2000(from 2040 onwards) should solely by replaced by the AMCA.

Conclusion - They might try to fit in a "MMRCA" using the aircraft shortfall excuse. However, if no tangible progress takes place on that within the next year, most likely it wont happen.

Tejas MK2 will be inducted only by 2025??????!!!!!!!!!

 

[rohit b3]

Tejas MK2 will be inducted only by 2025??????!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately yes.
However the manufacturing lines will be kept busy.
20 Tejas mk1 would be manufactured by 2017.
The remaining 100 Tejas mk1A would start manufacturing from 2017-2024- 8 years approx. Approximate rate of production being 12-13 a year , though HAL claims it can increase it to 16/year later on.

 

[Punya Pratap]

I have been saying it for a long time.... IAF should look at Mig 35 seriously as at US $ 35 Mil a piece its a steal and also a prime candidate for Make in India where Mig will be happy to shift its entire production line to India as they have very few orders!

@ Gadeshi, can you please confirm the bellow are possible?

• 3 D Thrust vectoring mating for RD 33 OVT? Also can the engine be tweaked to 100 KN plus?
• A dedicated Make in India line for Mig 35... Will Mig Corp be willing to set up the production in India?
• IRST & AESA for Mig 35.... If yes which one and also specs of the new AESA displayed at MAKS 15 if you can spare the details?
• OLS specs?
• Supercruise?
• Increased payloads?
• RAM Coatings and increased CFC?

Please confirm this also :

At MAKS’2015, the KRET corporation unveiled a new version of the AESA radar developed by its member company Phazotron-NIIR for the MiG-35. Dubbed FGA35, the unit features more modern solid-state transmitter modules than those used on experimental AESA carried by a prototype aircraft mission in frame of the IndianMMRCA tender.

Importantly what will be the take away price per unit as per the above? The thing that is causing IAF to shy away from Russian mil equipment is the poor supply of spares and services. The only way Russia can amend this is by participating in Make In India (Mig 35 I hope) so that IAF does nt grumble like it does for Su 30's

 

[roma]

When Modi made the deal for 36, he also promised Hollande that 30 more would be ordered so the final Rafale number will be 66. That is half MMRCA but IAF numbers are falling so fast, another 100+ aircraft order needs to be made somewhere either domestic or abroad.

HAL is getting increasingly stupid.. Evn after so many years of experience they still haven't learnt anything worthwhile.. All this talk abt India emerging as a superpower means that we create our own damn weapons.... HAL must be pushed very hard to complete indigenious projects on schedule...

you are both right imho - goi is playing a dangerously thin management strategy where they are probably calculating that prcchina is gonna be stuck in SCS conflicts and thus have less emphasis on india - well i have some news for them that prc can probably easily fight both fronts simultaneously with comparative ease !

I have been saying it for a long time.... IAF should look at Mig 35 seriously as at US $ 35 Mil a piece its a steal and also a prime candidate for Make in India where Mig will be happy to shift its entire production line to India as they have very few orders!

me too - ive been saying that too ....to be more accurate i would have had 2 planes chosen from the tender - mig 35 for the reasons you had stated and say 30 ( im not sure of squadron size as i not an air force person ) or so numbers of rafael

and done fast !

Modi has not succeeded in this matter and unless he pulls a rabbit out of this hat, on this particular matter he is so far , on this particular matter, showing us that he is MMS singh version 2 ...... sorry to say that but rather unimpressive ...if he wanted to save finances by halving the order and buy some off the shelf to be combat ready then it was a great strategy, but after a promising start he seems to be falling into a sleep -trap which is doing no one any good

pls go for one third or so of the original rafael order eg approx 40 units to be combat ready for any likely eventuality and the money saved, we can afford to go for larger numbers of mig 35 which we can convert to make in India and some sweetener money to russians for TOT on the mig 35's !
that will be the best deal in this situation

miig 35 plus at a later stage updated electronics and radar, & better missiles eg longer range brahmos which india is already capable of making is enough to handle china and packland any day for the next 10 years easily ....by which time our indigenous industry will be ready to contribute better

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[punjab47]

Mig 35 31 su 35 even 30 with ew package makes sense.

USA strategy is 200 f22 + 4-600 fa18/15 upgraded to carry 16 missiles.

4th Gen still very relevant. Atleast 4.5+ i.e 4gen with modern avionics (touchscreen) & ew packages for radar jamming & missil defence.

Is rafale worth the 200mil vs the 2.5x less for su35 & 5-6x less for Tejas & Mig.

Russia will also set up production lines & share tech. Will also do so quickly..

In 10 years France has given us media headlines.
Russia 200+ su30mki without which we would be in 2 front war most likely.

So...

 

[Bahamut]

IAF need a affordable and cheap to fly aircraft and Mig 35 and F 16 are solution.Personal I will prefer Mg 35.

 

[J.A.]

Tejas and Mig 35 is two good air plannes hoe can fighting wars outside India.

 

[Sameet2]

MMRCA what russians and americans got in its replacement ?
Seriously Why do we need so many types of same aircraft ?