Why video games are not developed in India?

[JBH22]

1 question guys India's performance in IT is no longer doubted we produce one of the best brains in the world but why do we have not a full fledged specific games designing companies like UBISOFT or ACTIVISION, as far as i know many of my friends play PC games would be great to play an Indian army game or fly the SU-30Mki simulator...


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Can someone explains this thanks

 

[tarunraju]

Oh they are. EA has a development centre here in Hyderabad. It's just that they don't develop "Indian games" (whatever that means), and there's a reason for that: the gaming market in India is still in its infancy. People don't use the latest consoles or PC gaming hardware (graphics cards supporting the latest APIs), with whoever does use them, software piracy is still a very prevalent problem, even when the distributors here sell genuine-copy games for the lowest prices in the world (a 2500 INR game in the US is sold for 999 or 499 INR in India, 100% genuine). Hence there's nobody they can sell those "Indian army" or Su-30 MKI game to.

If you still want to fly a Flanker, play Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X., it has Su-35 BM. If you want to play with Indian Army weapons, play as the "M.E.C." team in Battlefield 2.

 

[Antimony]

1 question guys India's performance in IT is no longer doubted we produce one of the best brains in the world but why do we have not a full fledged specific games designing companies like UBISOFT or ACTIVISION, as far as i know many of my friends play PC games would be great to play an Indian army game or fly the SU-30Mki simulator...

Can someone explains this thanks

Noone is stopping us from doing so, but I have not seen the software product development mentality in India. I have seen absolutely brilliant ideas come out of non-US companies which are not based on typical First person shooter storylines - the Assassins Creed series by Ubisoft is one my favourite series.

Its just a matter of someone with enough ideas and stomach for investment taking it up.

 

[p2prada]

There have been a lot of games that have some aspects being designed and developed in India. I think God of War 2's action sequences were developed in India by a studio called paprikaas. Quite a few Hollywood movies have had some of their visual effects done in India.

Reliance recently purchased a big stake in codemasters.

 

[Agantrope]

Gaming requires a heavy R&D which indian companies afford to risk that, which might be sole reason and another is piracy

 

[navida]

I worked in Data Quest, Hyd which does most of the games for EA

 

[tarunraju]

You need extremely talented people for Game Development - and Indians mostly have a very difficult time even clearing interviews for such companies.

Only the design teams need to be artsy-fartsy and creative to clear those interviews. The development (coding) teams can just be developers who can't tell a grocery store program from a game AI script. They just get the job done, and in that they're more intellectually capable than designers.

That's what happens here in Hyderabad. The job of converting designs/imaginations of some geek sitting in North America into software that actually works as imagined.

 

[SixSigma1978]

See that's where conventional logic should kick in. however, its not so in the Game Industry. I've read a detailed DEV diary interview of two developers - one from an MMO called Eve-Online and another of a standalone game called The Witcher (CDProject game studios). The interview was a mind-opener - a testament to human achievement what talented people alone can achieve when brought together. Especially the case to note is EveOnline - which manages to create one Singular Server (cluster) that hosts an entire universe. There are no instances, no separate zones - one server hosting quarter of a million players. He goes on to mention about the technological "inventions" they had to create AND patent in order to get this vision right.
Reading this (and knowing from my experience) - I had no doubt that this level of innovation and "game intelligence" is something that's cultured.

I cannot relate to such an endeavor with any Indian firm I've worked or interacted with (and I've interacted with many..believe me). Its not possible to simply say "oh I want to build a game thatch the next doom). I'm following a couple of standalone Indian publishers who are trying to get a First Person shooter into the market(India's first professional effort according to them) - and the world is laughing at the ancient engine they've managed to come up with. It only makes us look bad (and it IS a terrible terrible looking game - I can testify to that! And if it comes out - India will be the laughing stock of the world)

We need talent CULTURE to produce this genre - which I fear we just don't have any inclination to do!!

 

[Rebelkid]

See thats where conventional logic should kick in. however, its not so in the Game Industry. I've read a detailed DEV diary interview of two developers - one from an MMO called Eve-Online and another of a standalone game called the Witcher (CDProject game studios). The interview was a mind-opener - a testament to human achievement what talented people alone can achieve when brought together. Especially the case to note is EveOnline - which manages to create one Singular Server (cluster) that hosts an entire universe. There are no instances, no separate zones - one server hostingn quarter of a million players. He goes on to mention about the technological "inventions" they had to create AND patent in order to get this vision right.
Reading this (and knowing from my experience) - I had no doubt that this level of innovation and "game intelligence" is something that's cultured.

I cannot relate to such an endeavour with any Indian firm I've worked or interacted with (and I've interacted with many..believe me). Its not possible to simply say "oh I want to build a game thats the next doom). I've see a couple of standalone indian developers who are trying to get a First Person shooter into the market(india's first professional effort according to them) - and the world is laughing at the ancient engine they've managed to come up with. It only makes us look bad (and it IS a terrible terrible looking game - I can testify that if it comes out - India will be the laughing stock of the world)

We need talent CULTURE to produce this genre - which I fear we just don't have any inclination to do!!

A first effort at a game doesnot make this country a laughing stock... Do you even know how insanely hard it is to make a proper game engine ?

Right now...we don't have the ability to make a proper game engine Animators are not a problem

 

[SixSigma1978]

A first effort at a game doesnot make this country a laughing stock... Do you even know how insanely hard it is to make a proper game engine ?

VERY HARD! You're echoing my point - what you need is TALENT. And Yes - this game is being stonewalled and strung up by thousands and thousands of people - and even one BAD slur against India should shake us to fix whats wrong !! I hate seeing India's image sullied - and every sully hits!!! Just like how 5 million viewers have mocked and trashed India to death over the "Indian Superman", "Indian Thriller" that our idiot directors/producers have created in all their immaturity - the huge list goes on... videos on you tube. Its insulting and makes us ALL look like fools!!

When you're doing something do it right or Don't do it!!! Don't make India a laughing stock like the 10$ computer fiasco!!!

Rant Over!!!

 

[Rebelkid]

VERY HARD! You're echoing my point - what you need is TALENT. And Yes - this game is being stonewalled and strung up by thousands and thousands of people - and even one BAD slur against India should shake us to fix whats wrong !! I hate seeing India's image sullied - and every sully hits!!! Just like how 5 million viewers have mocked and trashed India to death over the "Indian Superman", "Indian Thriller" that our idiot directors/producers have put up - the huge list goes on... videos on you tube. Its insulting and makes us ALL look like fools!!

When you're doing something do it right or Don't do it!!! Don't make India a laughing stock like the 10$ computer fiasco!!!

Rant Over!!!

Trying something is not a source of insult, If people are so afraid of it, we would still be in th stone age...

 

[SixSigma1978]

Trying something is not a source of insult, If people are so afraid of it, we would still be in th stone age...

Thought my rant was over - This will kick in something else from me - so I'll let it slide or we'll go on forever!!
Peace!!!

 

[tarunraju]

See that's where conventional logic should kick in. however, its not so in the Game Industry. I've read a detailed DEV diary interview of two developers - one from an MMO called Eve-Online and another of a standalone game called The Witcher (CDProject game studios). The interview was a mind-opener - a testament to human achievement what talented people alone can achieve when brought together. Especially the case to note is EveOnline - which manages to create one Singular Server (cluster) that hosts an entire universe. There are no instances, no separate zones - one server hosting quarter of a million players. He goes on to mention about the technological "inventions" they had to create AND patent in order to get this vision right.
Reading this (and knowing from my experience) - I had no doubt that this level of innovation and "game intelligence" is something that's cultured.

I cannot relate to such an endeavor with any Indian firm I've worked or interacted with (and I've interacted with many..believe me). Its not possible to simply say "oh I want to build a game thatch the next doom). I'm following a couple of standalone Indian publishers who are trying to get a First Person shooter into the market(India's first professional effort according to them) - and the world is laughing at the ancient engine they've managed to come up with. It only makes us look bad (and it IS a terrible terrible looking game - I can testify to that! And if it comes out - India will be the laughing stock of the world)

We need talent CULTURE to produce this genre - which I fear we just don't have any inclination to do!!

I could buy a car if I put together all the money I spent on gaming till date, so don't get into semantics about 'conventional logic'. All it takes for making a game essentially is talented designers (who come up with concepts) and talented developers (to turn those into functional software). India already has those talented developers. Mindvision, EA, etc. have offices in Hyderabad that are into game development, and knowing EA's own studio, you know developing those games takes some talent. NVIDIA's Hyderabad office is where the drivers for its graphics cards are coded.

As for designers, India isn't short of artists, artisans, and creative thinkers in general. A vast film industry should tell you that, also the fact that most creative heads in the gaming industry (such as Tom Clancy) started off their careers in showbiz before dealing with the gaming industry. So like I said in post #2, the only reason there aren't "Indian games" is because the market here isn't that ripe yet.

 

[SixSigma1978]

I could buy a car if I put together all the money I spent on gaming till date, so don't get into semantics about 'conventional logic'. All it takes for making a game essentially is talented designers (who come up with concepts) and talented developers (to turn those into functional software). India already has those talented developers. Mindvision, EA, etc. have offices in Hyderabad that are into game development, and knowing EA's own studio, you know developing those games takes some talent. NVIDIA's Hyderabad office is where the drivers for its graphics cards are coded.

As for designers, India isn't short of artists, artisans, and creative thinkers in general. A vast film industry should tell you that, also the fact that most creative heads in the gaming industry (such as Tom Clancy) started off their careers in showbiz before dealing with the gaming industry. So like I said in post #2, the only reason there aren't "Indian games" is because the market here isn't that ripe yet.

I agree with you that India isn't short of artists etc - however, its their QUALITY I suspect. Look, I'm a patriot and would love to see Indians excel at every field we touch upon - but lets face it - we're not known for our problem solving skills (please quote aryabhatta and other mathematic legends - I'm talking about the proletariat). Like I said, I've BEEN to some of the more sophisticated game companies - I've interacted with Developers and Senior Game designers. You said you've played a LOT of games - I'm talking about meeting the the actuals! And Yes - I've even met John Carmac at the E3 game convention. Take my word for it - many of the games that are developed - are outsourced! Granted EA has an office in India - however, the real INNOVATION comes from the games that are not built upon existing platforms (U3D engine - on which building a game is a snap!!!). that is NOT innovation.

I brought up Ukraine because its an army of their incredible developers working behind the scenes who are giving you the technology when the Market (to your point) for games doesn't even exist in their country. Another example is eve-online!! Their home country is ICELAND which comprises < 5% of all their subscriber base of a quarter of a million!! Local Market is NOT the criteria - we just don't have what it takes, YET, to pull of game development in India.

I've seen the products come out of India (IBM literally makes all their products out of india - and IBM products are universally chastised as BLOATWARE and BUGGY!! And I can vouch for it.
Lets face it - India has a LEGION of substandard developers - and no incentive for innovation yet. Unless the mindset changes that JAVA/C++ is going to be the common bread and butter (And I link those languages to learning history, geohgraphy - all about learning APIs -absolutely no innovation) - we're not going to change!! Period!!

BTW I was looking out for some TALENTED PYTHON developers in India - I've interviewed god knows how many- and didn't find anyone competent enough to fit the profile. I went and hired a - surprise surprise - a developer from an outsourcing firm in Kiev, Ukraine!!!!:angry_10:

 

[p2prada]

I agree with you that India isn't short of artists etc - however, its their QUALITY I suspect. Look, I'm a patriot and would love to see Indians excel at every field we touch upon - but lets face it - we're not known for our problem solving skills (please quote aryabhatta and other mathematic legends - I'm talking about the proletariat). Like I said, I've BEEN to some of the more sophisticated game companies - I've interacted with Developers and Senior Game designers. You said you've played a LOT of games - I'm talking about meeting the the actuals! And Yes - I've even met John Carmac at the E3 game convention. Take my word for it - many of the games that are developed - are outsourced! Granted EA has an office in India - however, the real INNOVATION comes from the games that are not built upon existing platforms (U3D engine - on which building a game is a snap!!!). that is NOT innovation.

I brought up Ukraine because its an army of their incredible developers working behind the scenes who are giving you the technology when the Market (to your point) for games doesn't even exist in their country. Another example is eve-online!! Their home country is ICELAND which comprises < 5% of all their subscriber base of a quarter of a million!! Local Market is NOT the criteria - we just don't have what it takes, YET, to pull of game development in India.

I've seen the products come out of India (IBM literally makes all their products out of india - and IBM products are universally chastised as BLOATWARE and BUGGY!! And I can vouch for it.
Lets face it - India has a LEGION of substandard developers - and no incentive for innovation yet. Unless the mindset changes that JAVA/C++ is going to be the common bread and butter (And I link those languages to learning history, geohgraphy - all about learning APIs -absolutely no innovation) - we're not going to change!! Period!!

BTW I was looking out for some TALENTED PYTHON developers in India - I've interviewed god knows how many- and didn't find anyone competent enough to fit the profile. I went and hired a - surprise surprise - a developer from an outsourcing firm in Kiev, Ukraine!!!!:angry_10:

Have to agree with you. But, you will not get world class coders if you only pay them $10 a day compared to $40 an hour an American gets paid.

We don't have the technical experience to make something from existing engines let alone something like EVE Online, which is of course a million times better than that crappy WoW everybody swears to. Gaming is in its infancy in India let alone game development, so no point comparing with Europe. We need better internet connections first, then cheaper computers(nobody likes paying $1000 for a computer that costs $500 in the US) and then parents who give value to creative skills along with academic skills. I know too many kids who finish 6 hours of school only to go home and do another 2 hours of coaching at a Tutorial(not to mention 2 hours of home work once they are back).

India makes genius nerds, not creative geniuses. BTW, Bollywood sucks IMHO. I managed to covert some of my friends to Hollywood after showing them the right movies.

 

[dove]

I have to disagree. Most of our talented programmers work for multinationals doing jobs that would be normally given to average programmers in their countries. This is because financial security is still a very big issue for most indians and ensuring a safe if boring career is far more important than doing risky cutting edge work.

Even when entrepreneurs want to try something risky, indian VCs - who are just glorified accountants - will not invest unless they can calculate cash flow.

The problem with India is that we are extremely risk averse. This comes from a couple of centuries of poverty. As the economy improves and more and more families are able to live comfortably on one spouse's income, I believe we will see more innovation happening in India.

Gaming is clearly an example of a risky venture as the acceptance of a game by public is as unpredictable as that of a new movie. It will take some time before indian will venture into it. But when we do, it will be just another programming task. Irrespective of the beautiful graphics and transitions, below the hood its just the same lines of code.

 

[tarunraju]

Funding development of a game is no more risky than producing a movie, so those arguments of risk aversion tendencies don't apply. The only difference is that while you can build a cinema hall just about anywhere or that a DVD player sells for as little as $30, an Xbox360 is inaccessible to a vast majority of the population. Just as games are sold under regulated prices today for Rs. 499/999, the game itself isn't expensive. The console is. The solution here isn't making the console cheaper, but the economy to develop to a stage where a game console is affordable to at least 30% of the population. We'd still be looking at 300~350 million people, funding game development would then be viable.

 

[dove]

Do you know how funding works for hindi movie industry ? More than 70% of movie funding comes from rich individuals or (now) corporates getting into media - who do it primarily for the glamour and PR. Taken overall as an industry - movie industry has been in loss for many years. If Anil Ambani gets tired of being in the media field from tomorrow, half the movie and other media plans in the pipeline will disappear overnight. This is one industry that is not based on the ususal risk evaluation methods used by accountants.

Comparing it with video/computer games, the difference is there is a huge appetite for movies in india where as there is very little market for computer games in comparison. So anyone who invests in a computer game business in india is taking a double risk - that of creating a new market altogether and then hoping the games he designed will become popular. Given the risk averse nature of investments available in india this is unlikely to happen soon.

The other option is to make them for other markets. Apart from the usual challenges of selling in foreign markets - which can be daunting for any company - games also have a cultural context. It is a little like an indian producer trying to make movies for a western audience.

You are right that gaming industry in india will really take off only when most youngsters can afford a terminal or gaming device, because - That is what will reduce the risk.

 

[neo29]

Just have a look at an Hollywood action movie and Indian action movie and you should get the answer

They have and element of CG with absolute finishing and we are decades behind. We might be having the technology but it is not implemented due to costs.

Besides most Video Games made in US and UK have a storyline that interests everyone. It comes come Hollywood creative minds. If we make a video game it might have an Indian theme. I remember there was this game called Bhagat Singh. It was first person shootout and it reminded me of the 90's game called Wolfenstein 3d. Honestly the Indian game was aweful.

We always prefer action movies from Hollywood, same for games. If in India someone can match up to that, we may see a change in tide.

 

[Rahul92]

I dont know whether u people know about outsourcing of video games/cartoons . A famous french cartoon s 50% production is done in INDIA by DQ company and now days trend is being changed the pre production or post production is done in INDIA due to less cost of production . Even in recession animators draw 70k to 90k with 4-7 yrs exp