Why the rush to build aircraft carriers.

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare' started by A.V., Feb 16, 2009.

  1. John

    John Guest

    well Nimitz class carriers carry upto 90 aircraft and are the largest ships on the planet. They are also very difficult to destroy coz they travel in carrier groups and are accompanied by destroyers, frigates, subs etc. firstly spotting one in the ocean is like finding a needle in a hay stack, secondly, its radars and network of ships can monitor over 1000 miles radius of air. So any attempt on a USN carrier will very quickly result in having to face an armada of Super bugs armed to the teeth and Aim-120 Cs and soon Aim-120Ds which can easily intercept cruise missiles. moreover a super carrier is usually escorted by one or two deadly AEGIS armed ship which depending on the model can carry anywhere between 88 to 122 SM-2/SM-3 intercetors capable of destroying aerial targets between 74 km to 500km and this is by far the most well tested and proven naval air defence system in world, well any direct attack on a US carrier will quickly turn nasty since they also carry nukes, to mess with them is suicide and a war to the end. I think we should have 2 home made ADS class ships, one Gorshkov and 2 nuke powered super carriers. 3 for our maritime defence and 2 nuke powered carriers for attack roles and force projection.
     
  2. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    John,
    The Nimitz class carriers dont even come close to the tankers in size. Leave alone super tankers. And these are Catobar aircraft and need a gap of atleast 10 minutes inbetween for the aircraft to take off and land. The Aegis aint god-sent weapon. That is why Aircraft carriers are vulnerable to a lot of things.
     
  3. John

    John Guest

    well i am not saying they are impossible to hit, i am just saying if u indeed manage to kill a US super carrier, well, you're sure to face the wrath of Tridents flying at mach 30 falling in ur territory and whoever u are will be wiped out from the face of the earth, so it pretty much a no fly zone. i also mean they are the largest military vessels on the planet, not commercial. i know aegis ain't god sent but with over 3500 tests its one of the most robust and proven defence systems in the world, last year it knocked off a satelite travelling at speeds over 20,000 km in orbit, a feat that is not so easy to achieve.

    The US Navy Aircraft Carriers

    Catapults — The four steam-powered catapults thrust a 48,000-pound aircraft 300 feet, from zero to 165 miles per hour in two seconds. On each plane's nose gear is a T-bar which locks into the catapult's shuttle which pulls the plane down the catapult. The flight deck crew can launch two aircraft and land one every 37 seconds in daylight, and one per minute at night.

    well a ten minute gap defeats the purpose of a carrier like mentioned in the official link. So in ten minutes they have roughly 20 aircraft in the air or more which is already nasty for an incoming of flight of threats. Even at a 80% hit rate 2 AEGIS ships escorting the group will destroy more than 3/4 of the incoming threat. Since the AEGIS can carry between 88 to 122 missiles, you need a whole lot of aircraft to accomplish that by air. now an attack by sea is also doomed to fail since its sub-hunters won't let any thing come close to even picking up the carrier on its sonar. Its easy to say that supercarriers can be destroyed but will need a massive armada of ships, aircraft and lots of missiles, now keeping your self from being noticed while preparing for such a massive attack is also not easy, since China and other potential threats are constantly monitored. so yeah in real life the risk of the plan failing is way too high way even before the execution. its actually madness.
     
  4. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    We are yet to see a Sunburn or Moskit fired at an AC. The day that happens we will see what happens. The Aircraft carriers are great tools representing the navy's pride. It also gives the Navy freedom from Allies and continue with thir operations miles away from their homeland. But we use our carriers for fleet defense and our strike component are still the Missiles. SLCM is our main strike weapon.
     
  5. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    The Gorshov was a missile cruiser along with the small number of aircraft carrying capacity. Its Soviet designation is "aircraft carrying cruiser". Its purpose was to defend the Soviet SSBNs while they launched their SLBMs, from enemy aircraft like P3-C Orions and subs (thats why there is room for 7 helos). The space in the forward section was used for storing SS-N-12 Sabdbox AShMs. So it was a kind of defensive carrier. That is why the a/c carrying capacity is less despite its size.
     
  6. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Well Satish, nothing is god-sent, but it is the best that exists. Given its ability of GigaBit networking between ships, what one ship sees, all other do as well. So when a missile/hostile a/c is detected, the ship farthest from the carrier towards the threat engages it first (and with a range of 175km+). If that misses, then there are the next lines of defense that fire their salvos. Also, once the threat is neutralized, there is not much chance that the launch platform will exist.

    Also, while on combat duty, there is AWACS cover 24x7.:wink:

    And vulnerability depends on which country's carrier and battle group you are talking about. A US carrier is more well protected than the White House.

    Would you want to waste your entire Air Force (100+ a/c) on one carrier? And after that when the other 11 arrive, what will you do then? :D
     
  7. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I missed the AWACs...damn seems I am getting old. But AShMs are launched in Salvos usually right.
     
  8. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Yes Satish, but for that you need to get withing range. The AWACS will detect ships/aircraft well before they get within launch range, and if identified as hostile, the Carrier will launch its own aircraft (if not already on CAP), and intercept them before they get within firing range. Then there is AEGIS.
     
  9. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Here is a nice e-book on US CVBGs (in)vulnerabilty.
     
  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Carriers are powerful. Even if hit, they do not go down easily.

    Not to mention, the Nimitz will see you first, land air or sea. You really can't compare any other navy to the US Navy.
     
  11. John

    John Guest

    True taking one on is suicide, needless to say Carriers and N-subs will be among the last things on the planet after WW-3 ends.
     
  12. Su-47

    Su-47 Regular Member

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    Plus carriers carry a lot of firepower by themselves. Even without its contingent of aircraft, its well defended by Anti-ship missiles (AShMs), Anti-sub warfare (ASW) equipment and SAMs. In addition, carriers travel in a battlegroup consisting of frigates, destroyers, guided missile cruisers and subs.

    It will take a very powerful force to sink a carrier, coz they'll als have to deal with the battlegroup protecting the carrier.
     
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    There are role specific ships in a carrier battle group.

    ASW Destroyers, Anti-Air Destroyers, SSNs, Helicopter Carriers etc.
     
  14. John

    John Guest

    i was watching a recent documentary and word has it that the carrier itself carries over 2 million tons or more of weapons and normally during the last week of its 3 month deployment undergoes removal of all ammo from the ship, the procedure last over 3 days at full speed.
     
  15. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Brahmos has GPS/INS guidence package so it doesn't need target illumination.
     
  16. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Can India do without aircraft carrier? The answer is yes.
    However India needs to have more frigates and subs to offset the carrier.

    Carrier plus - floating airbase; minus - too big a target.

    Carrier can also be offset by more airbases on the island territories. Andman and Nicobar chain can host two fighter bases that can logically defend the islands.

    Somebody said that carriers will survive WWIII. I think that carriers and AWACS aircraft will the first ones to be attacked. The most potent pieces are always the most vulnerable.

    The remnants will be the dullest pieces of equipment that nobody cares about.
     
  17. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think it is much cheaper and effective to have two Su-30 airbases each with half squadron (9#) on A&N islands chain. Shipping lanes can be protected by land based aircraft with long endurances.

    The Western thinking does not always work for eastern nations and aircraft carrier is very much a symbol of Western thinking of sea dominance.
     
  18. brational

    brational Senior Member Senior Member

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    Air bases are easy target for long range missiles where as it is difficult to target a moving AC from long distance.
     
  19. Meriv90

    Meriv90 Regular Member

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    But you must weight the cost of building a Airstrip plus few armoured hangars vs the building of a complete fleet (because the Air carrier won't travel alone), for long range missile just get some BMD platforms it would still cheaper.
     
  20. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    It is also a bit of a fashion trend. Like large Battle Ships before it that were never really very effective, and dreadnaughts before that. Bragging rights, look really cool at naval shows, great photo ops. Aircraft carries are like the navy's contestants in the miss south India pageant.
     

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