Why the existence of Pakistan is not in India's interest

Blackwater

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one statesman said"" stable Pakistan is not in India'''s interest. Pakistan on ventilator is in India''s interest ""

statesman name: blackwater:thumb::thumb::namaste::namaste:
 

Decklander

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This a total myth. From your own article that you posted earlier:



The Soviet "offer" was nothing more than a diplomatic ploy. There was never any substance behind it. India was never seriously given the opportunity to join UNSC.

Another important point to note, as this article duly mentions, is that Nehru did initially try to pursue a pro-American foreign policy, as early as 1949. However, America and the West were not willing to become exclusive allies of India to the detriment of Pakistan. The geo-strategic importance of Pakistan vis-a-vis the U.S.S.R was simply too great for the Americans to ignore for India's sake. The American military aid to Pakistan starting in 1954 killed any chances of an Indo-U.S. alliance, and put India on the path towards poly-alignment and alternate sources of diplomatic and military support. This reached its natural culmination in 1971, with the signing of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship of Cooperation.
Nehru had leaning towards USSR. In 1954 he had signed the Bandung conference draft creating a third block called NAM. The preparation for this were going on for over two years. It is natural for USA to go for Pakistan when India decides to refuse their offer and goes and signs contracts with USSR. Do you know whom did India turn to for the tech for First Fifth year plan? Who were the others who offered similar/Better tech? why were those offers not accepted?
That will make a subject matter of different thread.
 

Decklander

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one statesman said"" stable Pakistan is not in India'''s interest. Pakistan on ventilator is in India''s interest ""

statesman name: blackwater:thumb::thumb::namaste::namaste:
A Villageman like me second it with the addition that ventilator shud be removed asap.
 

farhan_9909

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Not possible before exploding megatons of nukes on each other

and you know 10-20megaton warheads a few are enough to destroy the whole south asia
 

Yusuf

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Not possible before exploding megatons of nukes on each other

and you know 10-20megaton warheads a few are enough to destroy the whole south asia
You have no clue about nukes.

Just for your information, at the height of the cold war Britain had 200 warheads targeting just Moscow. That is at least 200 MT for just one city. 10-20 MT will not destroy entire South India let alone entire south Asia.
 

farhan_9909

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You have no clue about nukes.

Just for your information, at the height of the cold war Britain had 200 warheads targeting just Moscow. That is at least 200 MT for just one city. 10-20 MT will not destroy entire South India let alone entire south Asia.
10-20mt warheads not a single warhead.read my post again

beside this the article seems more of a fanboy work..
Being a pathan why would i want to get seperated from pakistan?or punjab,sindh,balochistan?
well i do agree we should merge the pashtoon majority places from afghanistan with pakistan.since we already have 30-40% afghan pashtoon in pakistan(more than 4 millions)
 

Yusuf

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10-20mt warheads not a single warhead.read my post again

beside this the article seems more of a fanboy work..
Being a pathan why would i want to get seperated from pakistan?or punjab,sindh,balochistan?
well i do agree we should merge the pashtoon majority places from afghanistan with pakistan.since we already have 30-40% afghan pashtoon in pakistan(more than 4 millions)
You still fail to understand. I said Britain had 200 warheads targetted at just Moscow.
 

Apollyon

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Do you know whom did India turn to for the tech for First Fifth year plan? Who were the others who offered similar/Better tech? why were those offers not accepted?
That will make a subject matter of different thread.
After the independence from British, India wanted to establish a electricity generation and distribution network.
Indians went to the Americans, they were just envisaged to provide all the equipment's off-the-shelf. No training Indian Engineers to help them stand on their feet.
Then Indians went to Russians, they agreed for tech-transfer and training Indian Engineers/Technicians.


:))
 

blank_quest

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After the independence from British, India wanted to establish a electricity generation and distribution network.
Indians went to the Americans, they were just envisaged to provide all the equipment's off-the-shelf. No training Indian Engineers to help them stand on their feet.
Then Indians went to Russians, they agreed for tech-transfer and training Indian Engineers/Technicians.


:))
India was allowed to pay Russia in Rs :lol:
 

A chauhan

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Pakistan is a habitual offender,its probation period has ended in the 60s. There comes a time when habitual offenders should either sentenced lifetime imprisonment or capital punishment, and the time of Pakistan has arrived, the world is gradually realizing that Pakistan is anti-peace anti-society element and its existence is detrimental to the whole world, it is still alive only due to its geo-strategic situation or no one could have given a glance at it.
 

farhan_9909

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You still fail to understand. I said Britain had 200 warheads targetted at just Moscow.
it doesnt matter if british had targetted 1 trillions nukes at moscow or 200

10kt plutonium one is enough to destroy moscow
 

Decklander

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10-20mt warheads not a single warhead.read my post again

beside this the article seems more of a fanboy work..
Being a pathan why would i want to get seperated from pakistan?or punjab,sindh,balochistan?
well i do agree we should merge the pashtoon majority places from afghanistan with pakistan.since we already have 30-40% afghan pashtoon in pakistan(more than 4 millions)
Pashtoons had rejected the idea of separation and creation of Pakistan it was for this reason that they boycotted the referendum for creation of Pakistan in 1947. Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was against this whole idea and he stated if India can't remain united than Pashtoons wud like to be part of Independent incidently was not a choice in the referendum so pashtoons boycotted it.
Here I quote from Khan Abdul Wali Khan,

Khan Abdul Wali Khan writes in "Facts are Facts"

" Khudai Khidmatgars' first objection was that since the Congress and the Muslim league had both agreed on Partition, and since they considered themselves bound by the congress decisions (Bacha Khan himself used to represent Khudai Khidmatgars in the Congress working Committee), and since the congress had accepted that NWFP had to be part of Pakistan, then why hold a referendum? The exercise would only exacerbate the existing communal and political tension and political tension and create an atmosphere of confrontation.

The Muslim League and the British had their own purpose behind the design. Muslim league was keen to convey the impression that Pakistan was formed its demand and its demand alone; and that the Khudai Khidmatgars had opposed Pakistan which was why a referendum had become necessary. There was another purpose in singling out NWFP for a different treatment from other provinces. In the rest of India, only the assembly members of the Muslim majority provinces were asked to give their vote. Bengal and Punjab assemblies voted for the partition and thus the provinces were divided. Sindh assembly was asked to vote for Pakistan. Why not then NWFP assembly also? The reason was obvious. Here the Khudai Khidmatgars were in Majority in the assembly. If they opted for Pakistan the decision would have been that of the Khudai Khidmatgars. The Muslim League was not prepared to concede that credit. Nor were the British."hy the progressive forces boycotted the dubious referendum. As Wali Khan has mentioned, BachaKhan considered himself bound by the Congress decision. There was no need of a referendum. The elected assembly was being subverted to give Muslim League political advantage in future government in Pakhtoonkhawa. The only meaningful purpose of this referendum would have been if it would have included the option of "Pakhtoonistan". When the elected representatives of a state were demanding it , such an option should have been considered. A referendum is only meaningful if it gives a genuine choice to the electorate. But when its clear that its purpose is to bypass the public opinion, it becomes a futile exercise . Which it became. It was boycotted by the elected representatives of the state.
Khan Abdul Wali Khan further writes:

Why Boycott:

" For their part the Khudai Khidmatgars decided that if the British were insistent on holding the plebiscite despite the general acceptance that NWFP would go to Pakistan, then following the same principle of self-determination the province should also have the freedom to a third option, of an in dependent Pukhtoonistan. Mountbatten, however, refused to include this alternative. The Khudai Khidmatgars then decided that since between the available two options the decision had already been taken and the referendum was there fore pointless they would boycott it"have already mentioned that any referendum is only meaningful if it gives a meaningful valid choice to the electorate. Here we are seeing that the demand of the most popular political party who had won an election and was in government in the state was ignored. It was solely being conducted to give the Muslim League a political credibility in NWFP. It was boycotted by a major political force. It was any thing but fair. It was to use the standard British term a "White Wash".

The Referendem : Fair or Farce

A farce and a shameful farce , this referendum was. And the key reasons were:

A: It was not based on adult franchise, Voting was restricted
B. Not all Pakhtoons were allowed to participate in the referendum that would seal not only their fate but that of their brothers in Afghanistan
C. The tribal Pakhtoons were not allowed to vote. In the population of 3.5 Million only 0.6 Million were allowed to vote
D. 6 Tribal agencies were barred from it
E. The States of Sawat, Dir,Amb, and Chitral were also not allowed to participate

Any referendum that disenfranchises such a large number of population can never be called a legitimate exercise of "self determination". It has no political, legal and moral authority whatsoever.

Progressive Position on Referendum:ali Khan writes:

" Anyway, the government of India started preparing for referendum. Olaf Carore was replaced by Sir Robb Lokhart as the NWFP governor and the vote was held under his supervision. Although the Khudai Khidmatgarshad announced boycott of the exercise and its result had been a foregone conclusion,yet the Muslim Leaguers made extraordinary efforts. They brought their leaders from all corners of the country including students from the Aligarh University, who all fanned out in the province to incite hatred against the Pukhtoons.

For all that, on the polling day they resorted to such rigging that it is hard to find a parallel. Ballot boxes were freely stuffed and even the votes of Khudai Khidmatgar leaders were cast. Let me cite two instances, one told to me by Sikandar Mirza himself who was former deputy commissioner in Hazara. Touring the polling booths he reached the one at the gullies. The staff proudly told him: "This is mountainous area. We have just 200 voters on the list here. But, Sir, we have already polled 210."espite a virtually unopposed Referendum , and monumental effort by the Moslem League what was the result?

The Results:
Number of votes 5,72,799
Polled votes (51%) 2,92,118
For Pakistan (51.5%) 2,89,244
For India 2,874

51.5% of the allowed Voters , Voted for Pakistan.Is this the result of a referendum that sealed the fate of Millions of Pakhtoons? With the disenfranchisment, it can't even be called a majority vote.

My honorable and learned friend, Ysser Hamdani, has written that the referendum was free and fair unlike those conducted by the Military dictatorships in Pakistan. Alas, it was the same story.

Wu referendem tha ya jin tha shaher mein hoo ka alam tha—-emocracy is about "equal opportunities". Here the elected representatives were suppressed, and an escape route of "referendums" was taken. Why?

Again lets ask those who were debarred , whose parliament was subverted:

Wali Khan writes:

" In the ends, thus, one keeps coming back to the same conclusion that the British were keen on putting an Islamic halter round the socialist order in the north and were not prepared to permit any hurdle,Khudai Khidmatgars' or whatever, in their way. In fact they were convinced that unless they removed all the nationalist and anti imperialist forces from their path would not be able to consummate their design."

This all was to block progressive forces in the area, to make NWFP a"Petri dish"for imperialist agenda to block Socialism. The Saur Revolution was snuffed out using NWFP, the Islamists madness was spread, the Frankenstein that is now playing havoc from New York, from Islamabad to Bara.

All this was result of this "Referendum".

"Lamhon ne Khata ki , sadiyon ne saza payi"
 

farhan_9909

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@Decklander

May be in the past.
But now Pashtoon are damn patriotic.i might sound odd bt i find pashtoon the most patriotic pakistani around even more than the punjabi's and sindhi's

you should also not forgot that the same pashtoon from the tribe attacked kashmir in 1948 for Pakistan and the 37% of kashmir in the hands of pak is because of pashtoons.so you should expect the change in just 1 year(1948)
 
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Decklander

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@Decklander

May be in the past.
But now Pashtoon are damn patriotic.i might sound odd bt i find pashtoon the most patriotic pakistani around even more than the punjabi's and sindhi's

you should also not forgot that the same pashtoon from the tribe attacked kashmir in 1948 for Pakistan and the 37% of kashmir in the hands of pak is because of pashtoons.so you should expect the change in just 1 year(1948)
I have seen debates on youtube from Pak TV channels which clearly prove the distinct divide.
 
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farhan_9909

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I have seen debates on youtube from Pak TV channels which clearly prove the distinct divide.
there may be.

but majority i am 100% sure more than 99% pashtoons are damn patriotic.

pashtoon are probably the only in pakistan i will term as blind patriotic :D
 

Tolaha

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May be in the past.
But now Pashtoon are damn patriotic.i might sound odd bt i find pashtoon the most patriotic pakistani around even more than the punjabi's and sindhi's
Pashtoons were damn patriotic earlier under the Bacha Khan and that's the reason there was a clamour for independence. But now Pashtoons no longer produce the kind of men like KAGK while their best are a part of the Army, thus earning quite well. This rich army lifestyle has made them less patriotic and don't care about the welfare of their community. So you no longer hear those cries for freedom.

you should also not forgot that the same pashtoon from the tribe attacked kashmir in 1948 for Pakistan and the 37% of kashmir in the hands of pak is because of pashtoons.so you should expect the change in just 1 year(1948)
Do you have the ethnic breakup of those tribal invaders? Pashtoons had numerous tribes and one or the other tribe was always available for sale. Nothing new in that. BTW the reason why Pakistan just has 37% of Kashmir is all thanks to those invaders! :taunt:
 

Yusuf

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it doesnt matter if british had targetted 1 trillions nukes at moscow or 200

10kt plutonium one is enough to destroy moscow
That's why I keep saying you have no clue on nuclear weapons. Not surprising. Even your army has no clue
 

Decklander

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@Decklander

May be in the past.
But now Pashtoon are damn patriotic.i might sound odd bt i find pashtoon the most patriotic pakistani around even more than the punjabi's and sindhi's

you should also not forgot that the same pashtoon from the tribe attacked kashmir in 1948 for Pakistan and the 37% of kashmir in the hands of pak is because of pashtoons.so you should expect the change in just 1 year(1948)
If these pashtoons had spent less time drinking, looting and raping women, 100% kashmir wud have been with Pakistan. The first Dakota with 30 Indian troops had to come out of the aircraft firing to save the srinagar airfield and the libration of kashmir started from there.
Had it not been for the stupidity of Nehru who went against his own cabinet unanimous decision to not accept UN offer and plebcite, 100% Kashmir wud have been with India.
 
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farhan_9909

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If these pashtoons had spent less time drinking, looting and raping women, 100% kashmir wud have been with Pakistan. The first Dakota with 30 Indian troops had to come out of the aircraft firing to save the srinagar airfield and the libration of kashmir started from there.
Had it not been for the stupidity of Nehru who went against his own cabinet unanimous decision to not accept UN offer and plebcite, 100% Kashmir wud have been with India.
Well i heard so.

anyway we are still happy with 37% of kashmir(43% with india and 20% china)
 

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