Why the Bramhos should make the PLAN shiver

tony4562

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In the past decade China has built or is confirmed building 18 054A frigates and 6 052C destroyers in addition to the 2 051C ships built severals years back. That's 26 ships capable of intercepting Yakhont class supersonic missiles. The no probably will swell to 50 a decade from now.
 

Payeng

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Sure he was... and I have a bridge to sell you. Funny there is no mention of it anywhere else.
I will post a bit of information if I get my hand on it,

It mentioned that Barak (dont know it was 1 or 8 ) is prepared for future super sonic threats (or maybe hyper sonic cannot recall)

The beauty of Israeli solution, the source was credible,maybe it was a defence expo catalogue .
 

Payeng

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tony4562 they are not the revolver systems :rolleyes:
 
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Armand2REP

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I will post a bit of information if I get my hand on it,

It mentioned that Barak (dont know it was 1 or 8 ) is prepared for future super sonic threats (or maybe hyper sonic cannot recall)

The beauty of Israeli solution, the source was credible,maybe it was a defence expo catalogue .
If you can find any publication with Barak being tested on Brahmos I will swallow the sword... i am sure that is newsworthy enough for a mention. but really it doesn't happen that early in testing. France and the US didn't test that capability until after the missile was accepted. And Russia wouldn't approve of that in Israel. It would have to happen in India and I am sure Russians would want to monitor it.
 
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Armand2REP

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Russia probably has long told China every detail about weapons they sold to India. Why wouldn't they? Sell India 1 billion worth of hardware and then sell China another 200 million worth of ducumentation. That's 200 million extra in pockets, and absolutely no russian interests at stake.
Russia didn't sell S-300 documentation or your spies wouldn't be getting busted for trying to steal it in Russia. PLA has a serious difficiency in missile tech that they have to resort to stealing designs for something they already bought. :lol:
 

Payeng

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If you can find any publication with Barak being tested on Brahmos I will swallow the sword... but really it doesn't happen that early in testing. France and the US didn't test that capability until after the missile was accepted. And Russia wouldn't approve of that in Israel. It would have to happen in India and I am sure Russians would want to monitor it.
The report was not related to test against BrahMos but it describes that Barak system is prepared with future threats in mind and can tackle Supersonic sea skimming :)notsure:hypersonic) threats.
 

Armand2REP

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The report was not related to test against BrahMos but it describes that Barak system is prepared with future threats in mind and can tackle Supersonic sea skimming :)notsure:hypersonic) threats.
I am sure it has it mind, but a member here said he personally witnessed Barak 8 being tested on 2 Brahmos. I find that hard to believe...
 

Payeng

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I am sure it has it mind, but a member here said he personally witnessed Barak 8 being tested on 2 Brahmos. I find that hard to believe...
It would be hard to validate it without credible information but it is a known fact that Israelis are concerned about her neighbour gaining access to Yakhont cruise missile a sister sibling of Brahmos and so the effort started to produce the missile.

Just refer this historic report.
Israel Defense | "Barak 8" versus "Yakhont" | Naval
Even though it do not indicates that Barak 8 being tested upon BrahMos it says that India have a local version of Yakhont.
So it is highly desirable for IAI to test the system against BrahMos, such an arrangement if ever occurred might also have Russian supervisors :noidea:
Afaik atleast two test of Barak 8 have occurred but I cannot validate what was the target.
 
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sayareakd

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That's a HHQ-9 launhed from a 052C ship, with 6 x 6 revolver launcher in the front, and 2x 6 launcher in the after structure. S300 is only installed on the 2 051C ships with 2x8 revolver launher in front of the bridge and 4x8 cell launcher in the back.

051C:


Now compare with 052C

052c does not have any radar coverage at the back side (huge blind spot), plus one hit by Brahmos, it will be at the bottom of the sea. BTW for your info Brahmos is JV with Russia with DRDO bring in their own navigation and other tech to Russian missile. Not export version as you said earlier.

two at the front


to at sides


exposed at back
 
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tony4562

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tony4562 they are not the revolver systems :rolleyes:


You are right, Sir. The 6-cell launchers on 052C don't rotate, each cell can launch its missile independently. The imported S-300 RIF sysytems installed on 051C do rotate as only 1 cell is capable of launching the missile.
 

tony4562

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052c does not have any radar coverage at the back side (huge blind spot), plus one hit by Brahmos, it will be at the bottom of the sea. BTW for your info Brahmos is JV with Russia with DRDO bring in their own navigation and other tech to Russian missile. Not export version as you said earlier.

two at the front


to at sides


exposed at back

052C has 360 degree coverage by its 4 PARS. Most pictures are taken from the front, guess that's what makes you think it's radar only has the front half covered.

 

Payeng

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You are right, Sir. The 6-cell launchers on 052C don't rotate, each cell can launch its missile independently. The imported S-300 RIF sysytems installed on 051C do rotate as only 1 cell is capable of launching the missile.
Can you please provide a better picture of the weapon stations of Type 051C.
 

Payeng

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Indian weaponry have the agility but lacks in range, while Chinese weapons as in 052C got the range but lacks agility (AShCM). Chinese can try to improve on agility but India cannot improve range with missiles involving foreign technology. India need to try on its own after all BrahMos is an Indian version of Yakhont is not enough to let enemy shit on pants. While I think HHQ-9 is nothing but a renamed S-300 you dont see a difference of even a nut bolt wrt Soviet/Russian S-300. For me they dont seems as copy attempt but licensed production.
 

Armand2REP

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052C has 360 degree coverage by its 4 PARS. Most pictures are taken from the front, guess that's what makes you think it's radar only has the front half covered.

It doesn't have 360 coverage as is clearly seen from the aft view. It is missing about 50 degrees. That is why that ugly EW radar antenna is there but you can't engage with it. The ship has to turn at an angle to engage from the rear. Since the PARS are not long range like an AEGIS destroyer the ship needs the EW to pick up targets at long distance. You could have achieved better coverage with one mast mounted array. It really is an absurd design.
 

tony4562

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It doesn't have 360 coverage as is clearly seen from the aft view. It is missing about 50 degrees. That is why that ugly EW radar antenna is there but you can't engage with it. The ship has to turn at an angle to engage from the rear. Since the PARS are not long range like an AEGIS destroyer the ship needs the EW to pick up targets at long distance. You could have achieved better coverage with one mast mounted array. It really is an absurd design.
I'm with you if you agree that Arleign Burke too does not have 360 degree coverage. It may not be as sophisticated as some US design, but it is as good as anything India currently can buy from abroad, and easily 2-3 generations ahead of anything India can produce in the country.
 

tony4562

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The old-style radar has one function, that is early detection of stealth aircrafts.
 

Armand2REP

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I'm with you if you agree that Arleign Burke too does not have 360 degree coverage. It may not be as sophisticated as some US design, but it is as good as anything India currently can buy from abroad, and easily 2-3 generations ahead of anything India can produce in the country.
I think PLAN wanted so bad to make something that looks like AEGIS that practicality was forgone to make it look like something it isn't. You could get 360 coverage with a mast mounted engagement radar that rotates every 2 seconds. India can buy SPY-1D Aegis radar or Thales SMART radar series. They are all more advanced than that. It is better than what Indian can make but they can just buy better foreign radars.
 

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That's because you missed Pack Leader's comments on Barak 8. Two Brahmos were launched against it and the kill ratio was greater than 90% for both. One missile was stopped, the other was affected by shrapnel.

According to him the MF-Star can detect the Brahmos from 80 Km away on a Destroyer or 50Km on a Frigate.



20 seconds is a lot of time. The engagement time is 2-3 seconds for such missiles.

Other missiles are merely older, that's all.

I should have said Evolved Sea Sparrow, Aster 30 and Barak 8. I did not mention them accurately because it was 4 in the morning and I was sleepy.
What did the Barak 8 intercept? Was it a Block 3 in steep dive confiog? There is no way the MF star or any other radar can detect anything before it reaches the line of Sight of the missile at 10m sea skimming.

If at all there was a Barak 8 that intercepted the Brahmos, it had to be in non steep dive trajectory and at much shorter launch ranges. As in the Bramhos launched at less than 80km and in normal parabolic trajectory for the Barak to shoot it down.

Can pack leader confirm what he knows?
 

Payeng

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What did the Barak 8 intercept? Was it a Block 3 in steep dive confiog? There is no way the MF star or any other radar can detect anything before it reaches the line of Sight of the missile at 10m sea skimming.

If at all there was a Barak 8 that intercepted the Brahmos, it had to be in non steep dive trajectory and at much shorter launch ranges. As in the Bramhos launched at less than 80km and in normal parabolic trajectory for the Barak to shoot it down.

Can pack leader confirm what he knows?
why!!!:notsure:
 

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