Why it's too soon to give Brazil and India permanent seats on UNSC

Bangalorean

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
6,233
Likes
6,853
Country flag
well, the real life quality of most Europe countries is in fact quite close to that of CHina,whether measured by per capital household appliance ,per capital medical service,per capital eletric consumption or average life span,liferacy rate ...etc,although CHinese per capital nominal GDP is only 1/2 of 1/3 of most east Europe countries.

And it is misleading to put Latin America into the same league of East Europe ,although both has similar "per capital nomonal GDP".......Under the current social system,most Latin America countries such as Mexico and Brazil has no chance to become real developed countries, whether measured with economy structure or social structure,however high their per capital nominal GDP looks like...

To tell the truth...the Latin America today is just the future of India.....it has a per capital nominal GDP of 10 time of indian today,but the slums are still rampant there....the abject poverty are still rampant there....the rule of mafia are rampant.....its industry chains are still undeveloped.....it still has to import finished products by exporting raw resource.....
Why do all Chinese have this halo around their heads that they are the only great and awesome people who can develop? All Chinese posters: you people need to get rid of your swollen headedness. India is around 11-13 years behind China. And in fact, through the 20th century, China has really been a stinking shithole at points, much more so than India. You ought to thank your Deng Xiaoping for opening the economy in 1979, a full 12 years before India - that is the only reason that you are ahead of India by a little more than a decade. This Chinese swollen-headedness and arrogance has to stop - its pissing off people throughout the world, not just Indians.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,570
Why do all Chinese have this halo around their heads that they are the only great and awesome people who can develop? All Chinese posters: you people need to get rid of your swollen headedness. India is around 11-13 years behind China. And in fact, through the 20th century, China has really been a stinking shithole at points, much more so than India. You ought to thank your Deng Xiaoping for opening the economy in 1979, a full 12 years before India - that is the only reason that you are ahead of India by a little more than a decade. This Chinese swollen-headedness and arrogance has to stop - its pissing off people throughout the world, not just Indians.
Actually, most Chinese I've met in real life are not arrogant at all. Only some Internet warriors/50-cent members.
 

Rage

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,419
Likes
1,001
The reason why China economy grew so much over the last decade is due to capital appreciation, correct?

Is it possible for a similar thing to happen to India, in regards to the INR? I do not fully understand the economics concepts.
To understand capital-appreciation, you have to understand GDP. GDP is the gross output of the economy, the total of goods and services produced by a nation in some real terms <discounted for a rate inflation> over a given time period, not the value of an economy as a static quantity in the intervening period.

Capital appreciation is a double-edged sword. For an export-oriented economy, it leads to a depressed "market valuation" (measured theoretically as some index of PPP) for product or output, but that product / output is allowed to be produced in the first place, on such a scale and in such quantity, because the currency was devalued in the first place.

Now, as an economy moves upward and becomes increasingly consumption-oriented, as China's is, inflation pressures push the value of currency upward. Therefore, it is no longer possible to artificially depress currency without one of the following payoffs: i) that either deflationary pressures are imposed, which act as a dampener to native investment by reducing current, prospective and speculative market prices; or ii) that exports are given a fillip, by making products more price-competitive, but at the cost of the domestic market. Depending on the size of the consumption sector in the economy, the nation makes that choice whether to artificially hold prices down, have the ex. rate appreciate and erode export competitiveness; or have a depreciated exchange rate, have prices rise higher than the predetermined figure, greater inflation and higher domestic investment, but greater price-competitiveness and export values. Which is why, China is pursuing the policy of gradual yuan-appreciation. It is, in their rational calculations, a most legitimate and viable, political, economic and international compromise-solution.

But, I'll go further to say, that in my opinion one of the prime reasons for the spurt in Chinese growth-rates and GDP over the last 9 years, have been several retrospective fiscal re-valuations: there have been four of them, that I know of, since the Tax Reform in the 1990's, and three of them have been in the 2000's: in the last decade, alone. A retrospective fiscal-revaluation is a bump-up <usually> of G.D.P as a result of changes in accounting procedures, changes in the size and scope of evaluating, changes in method of valuation and inclusion of hitherto unseen sectors in the economy. India has not had a fiscal retrospective-revaluation since independence, but is long overdue, given the scale and size of the black economy we know in our country.
 
Last edited:

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,000
Likes
2,302
Country flag
Does China belong in the big 5, it is the only third world country there??China's GDP/PPP is not even 5,000 per person all the other nations are 7-10 times more except Russia which is 3 times more, China is the only country representing the third world in the p5.


Blue first world -orange third world
Yes, China is a third world country. And China would be delighted to be called forth world country if there is such thing. But the scale of China's economy allow China to spend billions dollars on financial deal on small countries.

As I said: small contries would give a shit if you are third world country. The only thing they care is that how much they can get in exchange of their vote. Even if india has a GDP per person is as high as swiss, you would not get a single vote from them if you don't allow them to share your wealth. When PRC replaced ROC's seat in P5, PRC was even poor than today, but we still got 2/3 support in general assemble. Why? Money talk.

So, even without the objection from P5, india still need to buy its support in General Assemble one by one. Carry that in your mind: that means at least 4 billions dollars a year.
 

jazzguy

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
104
Likes
0
Yes, China is a third world country. And China would be delighted to be called forth world country if there is such thing. But the scale of China's economy allow China to spend billions dollars on financial deal on small countries.

As I said: small contries would give a shit if you are third world country. The only thing they care is that how much they can get in exchange of their vote. Even if india has a GDP per person is as high as swiss, you would not get a single vote from them if you don't allow them to share your wealth. When PRC replaced ROC's seat in P5, PRC was even poor than today, but we still got 2/3 support in general assemble. Why? Money talk.

So, even without the objection from P5, india still need to buy its support in General Assemble one by one. Carry that in your mind: that means at least 4 billions dollars a year.
Some Chinese want to immigrant to India to enjoy democracy and freedom. The Chinese said that they can freely swim in the Ganges and drink some protein enriched mineral water when feel thirsty. Not sure if India has the immigrant policy to accept them.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,799
Likes
48,278
Country flag
Yes, China is a third world country. And China would be delighted to be called forth world country if there is such thing. But the scale of China's economy allow China to spend billions dollars on financial deal on small countries.

As I said: small contries would give a shit if you are third world country. The only thing they care is that how much they can get in exchange of their vote. Even if india has a GDP per person is as high as swiss, you would not get a single vote from them if you don't allow them to share your wealth. When PRC replaced ROC's seat in P5, PRC was even poor than today, but we still got 2/3 support in general assemble. Why? Money talk.

So, even without the objection from P5, india still need to buy its support in General Assemble one by one. Carry that in your mind: that means at least 4 billions dollars a year.

Is this money well spent ?couldn't that money be better spent domestically.
 

Rage

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,419
Likes
1,001
Some Chinese want to immigrant to India to enjoy democracy and freedom. The Chinese said that they can freely swim in the Ganges and drink some protein enriched mineral water when feel thirsty. Not sure if India has the immigrant policy to accept them.
Are you ridiculing India? Be straight with us, boy.

It's not like your rivers are the fluid from heaven either.

And minerals do not contain protein, proteins are an amino acid- what class of school are you in again?
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,000
Likes
2,302
Country flag
Is this money well spent ?couldn't that money be better spent domestically.
Well, that depends what you want the most!
If you want international influence and other countries' support, you need to spend that money.
If you want to get a share of resources in other countries, you need to spend that money.
If you want to protect your interest outside india border, you need to spend that money.

So, you have to balance your need domesticly and internationally.
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
Actually, most Chinese I've met in real life are not arrogant at all. Only some Internet warriors/50-cent members.
I second this. All chinese ive met have been decent people and aren't like paid keyboard warriors we see on the internet.
 

niharjhatn

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
899
Likes
391
Some Chinese want to immigrant to India to enjoy democracy and freedom. The Chinese said that they can freely swim in the Ganges and drink some protein enriched mineral water when feel thirsty. Not sure if India has the immigrant policy to accept them.
After decades of brutal oppression of religion, I guess you see ritual cleansing in the same light as swimming.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
LOL @ such a statement coming from a Chinese poster. China was hardly the dominant force it is today 40 or so years ago. You yourself have experienced coming from the gutter to take limelight on the economic stage - why can't other nations do the same?

India has much stronger and better industries to hang its coat on than many of these South American nations!
because your social structure has not exprienced the complete reform like revoluations in PR china or land reform in Taiwan.S.Korea and Japan.

the most reactionaries classed to industrializaiton such as landlords,traditional peasants are still perspering in India and Latin American...while such classed were demolished by revolutions or land reforms in 1940s-1950s in East Asia.
 
Last edited:

Yatharth Singh

Knowledge is power.
Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
744
Likes
176
Country flag
:D :D ROFL. Now can anyone out there please explain that what does the social reforms has to do with India getting its permanent seat in Security Councils.
Guys keep aside your sentiments and speak something logical which is related to the topic
 

Virendra

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,697
Likes
3,041
Country flag
And yes, dominance of feudal landlords was demolished in India as well in the Nehru era land reforms immediately after Independence. Come to India and see for yourself, I don't buy your refute out of limited reading from God knows what source. Is someone picturing India of dark ages to you ?
Enough of OT. I'll shut up now, back to UNSC.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
well, the real life quality of most east Europe countries is in fact quite close to that of CHina,whether measured by per capital household appliance ,per capital medical service,per capital eletric consumption or average life span,liferacy rate ...etc,although CHinese per capital nominal GDP is only 1/2 of 1/3 of most east Europe countries.
Well, Eastern Europe is certainly less developed than Western but it is still higher than China. Medical service is more readily available and affordable, pensions are far higher, literacy is quite high as China declines, many more Eastern Europeans per capita have college degrees, most families have an automobile while it is still a novelty in rural China. GDP growth in Eastern Europe has been almost as spectacular as China over the last decade.

And it is misleading to put Latin America into the same league of East Europe ,although both has similar "per capital nomonal GDP".......Under the current social system,most Latin America countries such as Mexico and Brazil has no chance to become real developed countries, whether measured with economy structure or social structure,however high their per capital nominal GDP looks like...
I will agree with Mexico as that country is a basket case. Brasil is a different story as well as many Latin American countries taking liberal reforms.

To tell the truth...the Latin America today is just the future of India.....it has a per capital nominal GDP of 10 time of indian today,but the slums are still rampant there....the abject poverty are still rampant there....the rule of mafia are rampant.....its industry chains are still undeveloped.....it still has to import finished products by exporting raw resource.....
You only wish you were in Brasil's position... they are energy independent.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
Well, Eastern Europe is certainly less developed than Western but it is still higher than China. Medical service is more readily available and affordable, pensions are far higher, literacy is quite high as China declines, many more Eastern Europeans per capita have college degrees, most families have an automobile while it is still a novelty in rural China. GDP growth in Eastern Europe has been almost as spectacular as China over the last decade.
well, many travelogues of CHinese tourist tell me that :
1,the real life quality of Romania,Turkey Ukraine,Moldova,Albania is lower than or similar to that of CHina; but their infrastructures are decades behind CHina.

2,the real life quality of Czekh,Hungary,Poland are similar to Taiwan and higher than CHina,but their infrastructure are also far behind CHIna.

well, it is one of my hobbies to read travellougues of CHinese tourists all over the world.....


,
 
Last edited:

asokasword

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
4
Likes
0
Brainwashed/ing or just an idiot

As the logic of ajtr, Russia beated in the face of Georgia and in fact any western country dare not take even any small action means Russia is powerless, China prevented several big countries (calculate how many percentages of economic power they have if you add USA,Japan,SK and maybe someothers together) attacking NK means China is powerless, Brazil have already made USA can not feel too comfort when considering South America affairs (and even affairs like about Iran) means Brazil is powerless, India/Pak made the other the nuclear owner extremely cautious and none,even usa , can dely the existence of indian navy in indian ocean means India and Pak are powerless, and so on, BUT BUT BUT france, depending on the support of USA and nearly all NATO countries, dare to invade (sure, invade, not intervene) a country only has 6.5m uneducationed citizens and the only resource important is oil and the distant from France to Libia is even much shorter than from north india to south india means france is SO SO SO powerful and can HELP(LEAD?) WORLD to solve problems.

the person just was brainwashed or he/she just wants to brainwash indians, if he/she is not a complete idiot.
 
Last edited:

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Honestly I hate ( ("_") <though trying to stay cool> those who make every thread/debate look so similar
 

asokasword

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
4
Likes
0
Brainwashed/ing or just an idiot

As the logic of ajtr, Russia beated in the face of Georgia and in fact any western country dare not take even any small action means Russia is powerless, China prevented several big countries (calculate how many percentages of economic power they have if you add USA,Japan,SK and maybe someothers together) attacking NK means China is powerless, Brazil have already made USA can not feel too comfort when considering South America affairs (and even affairs like about Iran) means Brazil is powerless, India/Pak made the other the nuclear owner extremely cautious and none,even usa , can dely the existence of indian navy in indian ocean means India and Pak are powerless, and so on, BUT BUT BUT france, depending on the support of USA and nearly all NATO countries, dare to invade (sure, invade, not intervene) a country only has 6.5m (or 3m, because france surely will anounce most libyans will fight with them against col. Gaddafi)uneducationed citizens and the only resource important is oil and the distant from France to Libia is even much shorter than from north india to south india means france is SO SO SO powerful and can HELP(LEAD?) WORLD to solve problems.

the person just was brainwashed or he/she just wants to brainwash indians, if he/she is not a complete idiot.
 
Last edited:

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top