Why Indians are so much obsessed with English Language?

[Pratap]

Thanks.



Even I try to speak a bit of Bengali and Tamil when I speak with my Bengali/Tamil friends.If I go to their states ever then I would try to speak more of their local languages.They try to learn a bit of my local language since they already know Hindi.

What we need is a level of respect for each others language and make a consensus if there is a question on national language.

That is what we need but it is horrible to see a Shivashankar Menon replying in English , even when asked in Hindi.

 

[roma]

Oh Krishna !

English with grammatical conformation ? Which grammar ? What is better English ? The one used by Charles Dickens or the one used by Hemmingway ? The one spoken by shepherds in the meadows of Wales or downtown in Birmingham ? The one spoken in Kerala where house is spoken as "kouse" the one spoken in Calcutta. Today the English "Char" has become "Chai" and "Kownpour" has become Kanpur. Look and observe how a language is rooted with places and has a Geography to be identified. When one mentions "Arabic" the mind does visualise Arabia and not Manchester. When you hear the word "English" the visualisation in mind is not India but England. India may use English but never be identified or rather get cognised by the picture of India (though the name itself is English).

So let us first determine the standards of English _ a language evolved through usage rather than grammatical canons.
!!

(Partial quote to stick to the point)
Let's keep it simple and on topic ....Do you consider the title of this thread to be grammatically correct ?

 

[p2prada]

Every one can atleast write, I eat rice, I drink water, but how many can conversation with a foreigner? I know many and they can write English letters, reports etc, but very few of them can talk fluently.

Those who can't converse with a foreigner are worse when it comes to writing. Personal experience.

Check out call centers, they can all converse fluently with Americans, hell with American accent included for some of them. But tell them to write a simple essay in 10 sentences about their most memorable experience, you will flush it down the toilet after the first sentence.

What is to do with racism here? Can we educate NE tribe people in their mother tongue? No, many of them even dont have their own script. But Bengali, Kannada languages are able to be medium at least up to HS level.

They will choose English, and they will beat your kids by far in the education department.

What is the definition of Job? You mean job in Call Center own by Foreign company? Then yes, job in shopping malls, shop? Then no.

Call center is just one minuscule part of the English language industry in India.

Don't forget our entire knowledge industry has clients that are based outside the country. They need candidates who can converse with English for multiple reasons. Those with foreign language skills get sent to countries related. A friend of mine knows French and worked in the French language industry in India. The French govt gave him a scholarship to study any masters course of his choice in France under any university, free of cost, including stay, and work in France after the course is complete.

And those Christian schools are just brain washing them and propagating Jesus saves world and other no one can do it.

WTF? No! They don't teach religion at their schools. My plus 2 was in such an institution and so was my brother's. There was no propagation of religion there.

This is about attitude, English medium students have tendency to neglect poor, and their very purpose of life is grab a good job and then settle in West or at least in Metropolitan cities.

Complete bollocks. The biggest philanthropists in India were students from English medium schools.

Read up on Azim Premji's donation to education. It is the biggest in India. He is from an English background.

Kushal Pal Singh, DLF - Top ten Indian Philanthropists, Azim Premji tops the list | The Economic Times

These are the top ten in India. All English educated from school days.

Facts are not a strong suit of the Hindi ultra-nationalists it seems.

India and Indian languages existed before constitution was even created, Constitution can be changed, Constitution is not like solid rock. And I say our constitution is bogus and contradictory.

If constitution is changed as easy as that, then our country exists on a flimsy piece of paper.

Constitution may change, but it won't remove English as a lingua franca.

Chinese earn money with out going to English medium school, and Indians are most hypocrite people, here followers of 1 religion cant tolerate others, people of a state cont tolerate other state's people, disunity every where, yet when India-Pakistan match happens all support India, even a corrupt babu too!

You are confusing the issue we are discussing here.

Really? Show me 1, I will be glad to see such self-hating people. India has it's own way, dont try to copy West for India's development, as sooner we understand it, more better.

How can I "show" you this? Come see it for yourself.

There are different languages, Mandarin, Cantonese and many more, yet their national language is a Chinese language.

They have political motivations in making Mandarin the central language. Read up on the Hukou system. Regardless, far too many people speak it.

If China sends their children to English medium school then what happened to India, same will happen to China.

British took our wealth from us, and gave us slave mentality in return.

You are confusing the two again. English has nothing to do with the British or slave mentality. It's like telling a cardiologist he has a slave mentality because he knows western medicine. Our higher education system is entirely western.

Slave mentality is when an Indian sings "God Save the Queen" at the top of his voice in the middle of the street in India for no reason.

Speaking English is no different from an Englishman speaking Sanskrit or Hindi.

 

[jackprince]

Off topic: I wish to know what shri @Pratap & @Waffen SS are in real life? My guess would be teenagers or just out of teenage. Are you?

 

[jackprince]

The language nazis have once destroyed futures of generations of students. But most of the people (grown ups) are wise enough today that such a move will not be made by any political parties - not in bengal at least, after CPM admitted their 'Historical blunder' _ one of many - was abolition of english from education system.

Anyway even if such thing happens again, I would send my kid to an english medium school - because to me at least my child's proper education and brighter future is more important to bow down to some crazy imbecile self-destructive insecure idiots' idea of nationalism. I would rather my child do something actually materially constructive for the nation by his/her education in english medium than some bunch of worthless scum who only barks of nationalism in their native tongue!

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Even seemingly rational Indians cannot see past their nose when it comes to language related discussions. Indians are whimsical and their decisions are guided primarily by convenience. That english is a tool to get high paying jobs abroad is the thought process of most highly educated Indians in this thread. They are not ideological and have no principles. I can see why Indians were colonized so easily.

 

[Bhadra]

(Partial quote to stick to the point)
Let's keep it simple and on topic ....Do you consider the title of this thread to be grammatically correct ?

Oh Roma, you are welcome (of course with those perpetual exhibitionists avatars of yours - please do not bullshit me for that like Ray as I have no objections to your avatars)...

But Wren and Martin is outdated now. It is passé....... Oxford Advance Learner's gets up-graded perhaps every month...
Mobile and Internet has given birth to a new English. The Grammarless garbling lass called Queen's language has thrown away pretensions of any structure.... as if saying " Jab Meri Chunariya Mal Mal Ki To Kyon Na Phiroon Jhalaki Jhalak.i.... " like that..... Ah the Jhalla...

With four times the number of English user in India than in Great Britain, we do not have " Oxford" and "Cambridge's" or equivalents in India..... so much for the contribution of these English Advocates towards improving quality of education !! They are actually what is called " Comprador petty bourgeoisie " ... Bikavu....

 

[Bhadra]

That is what we need but it is horrible to see a Shivashankar Menon replying in English , even when asked in Hindi.

Why Shiva Shankar is correct as any wrong comment in Hindi can be very disasterious. Remember that attention hog RR Patil's comment on Mumbay attack !! Aisa Hota hi Rahata hai...

Such small incidents happen: Maharashtra Deputy CM - The Times of India

 

[Ray]

Even seemingly rational Indians cannot see past their nose when it comes to language related discussions. Indians are whimsical and their decisions are guided primarily by convenience. That english is a tool to get high paying jobs abroad is the thought process of most highly educated Indians in this thread. They are not ideological and have no principles. I can see why Indians were colonized so easily.

One could also consider if it is wrong to go abroad, get high paying jobs, remit some of the money home to help the family and also boost the Indian finance, instead of remaining unemployed in India since India is unable to absorb the many who are educated and qualified.

Remittances in India increased to 10010.16 USD Million in the fourth quarter of 2013 from 9194.86 USD Million in the third quarter of 2013. Remittances in India is reported by the Reserve Bank of India. Remittances in India averaged 8076.29 USD Million from 2010 until 2013, reaching an all time high of 10010.16 USD Million in the fourth quarter of 2013 and a record low of 5999.10 USD Million in the third quarter of 2010. This page provides - India Remittances - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. 2014-03-23

One out of three young graduates unemployed in India: Labour Ministry
One out of three young graduates unemployed in India: Labour Ministry - Indian Express

So, 2/3 are unemployed!

 

[Waffen SS]

Those who can't converse with a foreigner are worse when it comes to writing. Personal experience.

Check out call centers, they can all converse fluently with Americans, hell with American accent included for some of them. But tell them to write a simple essay in 10 sentences about their most memorable experience, you will flush it down the toilet after the first sentence.

:Hmm: my most friends can write english but not fluent in speaking it.

They will choose English, and they will beat your kids by far in the education department.

Really? @nirranj says other thing, and in WB too, most people serving here are from Bengali medium back ground. UNESCO report shows mother tongue medium education is best. All I have seen English medium school gone kids only know English, and in no other way they can beat Bengali medium students.

Call center is just one minuscule part of the English language industry in India.

Don't forget our entire knowledge industry has clients that are based outside the country. They need candidates who can converse with English for multiple reasons. Those with foreign language skills get sent to countries related. A friend of mine knows French and worked in the French language industry in India. The French govt gave him a scholarship to study any masters course of his choice in France under any university, free of cost, including stay, and work in France after the course is complete.

I again say we are not against English education, but against English medium. And you can speak English too if you learn properly, IMO present English teaching system in mother tongue medium schools should be changed. More attention should be given to translation. Such as translate this Bengali language to English, more higher class you go, more your translation will be hard.

WTF? No! They don't teach religion at their schools. My plus 2 was in such an institution and so was my brother's. There was no propagation of religion there.

They teach, even if indirectly, they observe no Hindu or Muslim religious holidays, even if they do, not in such extent as local language schools do. "Jesus saves world" always is propagated. And I know this, from personal experience.

Complete bollocks. The biggest philanthropists in India were students from English medium schools.

Read up on Azim Premji's donation to education. It is the biggest in India. He is from an English background.

Kushal Pal Singh, DLF - Top ten Indian Philanthropists, Azim Premji tops the list | The Economic Times

These are the top ten in India. All English educated from school days.

Facts are not a strong suit of the Hindi ultra-nationalists it seems.

Ajim Premji is Indian elite, which co-operated with British until their interest was hurt. Plus he is rich, so a rich man can donate more naturally.

Biggest philanthropist in India is RSS, VHP, Ramkrishna Mission, Bharat Sebashram Sangha and other NGOs. English medium students at least in WB, plan to settle in abroad.

If constitution is changed as easy as that, then our country exists on a flimsy piece of paper.

Constitution may change, but it won't remove English as a lingua franca.

Constitution should have multiple changes more, and our constitution already has been changed over 50 times, so by your logic our country is already flimsy paper of piece. English will continue to dominate India because of anglophile people like Ray.

You are confusing the issue we are discussing here.

No.

How can I "show" you this? Come see it for yourself.

This mentality, taking pride in speaking English and feeling shame in speaking mother tongue is rampant in India. Speaking english is now a demonic cult.

They have political motivations in making Mandarin the central language. Read up on the Hukou system. Regardless, far too many people speak it.

Hokou system has nothing to do with language. Hukou is more for economic reason than language.

You are confusing the two again. English has nothing to do with the British or slave mentality. It's like telling a cardiologist he has a slave mentality because he knows western medicine. Our higher education system is entirely western.

Slave mentality is when an Indian sings "God Save the Queen" at the top of his voice in the middle of the street in India for no reason.

Speaking English is no different from an Englishman speaking Sanskrit or Hindi.

I am not against English speaking, but against Anglicization, no where I said to leave English or to burn English books. "God Save the Queen" type loyalty does not exist here any more from 1947.

Speak english when you are talking to a foreigner, but not among ourselves.
@jackprince are you Messiah in real life? If you are no, neither am I.

 

[Ray]

China keen to learn English from India
China keen to learn English from India - The Times of India

ENGLISH AS THE GLOBAL LANGUAGE
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/students/Wheaton/page1.htm

If learnt as a second or third language, it does not affect indigenous culture.

 

[Waffen SS]

China keen to learn English from India
China keen to learn English from India - The Times of India

ENGLISH AS THE GLOBAL LANGUAGE
ENGLISH ON THE WEB - Page 1

If learnt as a second or third language, it does not affect indigenous culture.

China is not interested in English medium education in school level, they need to study other books in written English, that's why they are trying to learn English. There is English medium education cult in China, because chinese have pride.

If learnt as a second or third language, it does not affect indigenous culture.

English schools dont teach English language as 2nd or 3rd, but as first language, so your logic proves our fear that out indigenous culture is under threat is valid.

If English was taught as 2nd or 3rd, there would be no problem. The problem is English is taught as 1st language, resulting students neglecting our mother tongue. This is what our concern.

English language learning is not exactly as important as it is portrayed, Government accepts applications written in Indian languages, writing in English is just status symbol.

I know some who studied in English medium now they are Electric technician, please tell me what he got from costly English medium education then?

@jackprince are you Messiah in real life? If you are not, neither am I.

Spello mistako was, corrected

 

[Pratap]

China is not interested in English medium education in school level, they need to study other books in written English, that's why they are trying to learn English. There is English medium education cult in China, because chinese have pride.

English schools dont teach English language as 2nd or 3rd, but as first language, so your logic proves our fear that out indigenous culture is under threat is right.


.
If English was taught as 2nd or 3rd, there would be no problem. The problem is english is taught as 1st language, resulting students neglecting our mother tongue. This is what our concern.

The Hindi terms for 59 or 69 like unsath or unahattar are not understood by boys coming out of " St. " schools and that is what we fear , not that someone should know English. Those who know Dickens, have not read Anandmath by Bankim ( in Indian languages) and that is what we fear. Complete break down of culture and literary traditions of our country under English assault

 

[Pratap]

Even seemingly rational Indians cannot see past their nose when it comes to language related discussions. Indians are whimsical and their decisions are guided primarily by convenience. That english is a tool to get high paying jobs abroad is the thought process of most highly educated Indians in this thread. They are not ideological and have no principles. I can see why Indians were colonized so easily.

The reason why our people are insulted outside India is because of this same problem.

 

[Pratap]

Off topic: I wish to know what shri @Pratap & @Waffen SS are in real life? My guess would be teenagers or just out of teenage. Are you?

Certainly not lickers of white boots.

 

[Mad Indian]

All the leading states of india are non hindi states- maharastra , tamil nadu, punjab, haryana, karnataka, andhra pradesh etc.



So the dumb shits who want to fap around with their hindi can feel free to do so. We will use the language of convenience which is english for us...


And morons who are advocating for forcing Hindi better be ready for seccession movement in south as that is the ground reality as against their wet dreams.
@Waffen SS who said we had accepted english as a national language? We have just accepted it as a link language wrt india and beyond. And dont say the same thing same be true with hindi also as I know what hindi nazis will want after it is taken as a link language- to declare it a national language... as I said no self respecting non hindi wallah would want hindi dominating over their mother tongue or accept its suzereignity.


And to the Question of accepting hindi will lead ro better prosperity for the nation.... yeah sure we see the prosperity of hindi wallahs throughout india - uttar pradesh, bihar, madhya pradesh, rajasthan

 

[Bangalorean]

Quite a few idiotic arguments on this thread, and a few good ones. In response to a private message question by @Waffen SS, here are my thoughts on this:

In my opinion, a "dual formula" is required. English needs to be used for science education, technical education, mathematics, etc. However, the social sciences, history, literature, etc. can be taught in the local language.

In Karnataka therefore, a combination of Kannada+English would be used as the medium of education, in WB it would be Bengali+English, and so on.

An additional language needs to be taught in addition to social science and technical subjects, and that additional language should be the students' choice. If a majority of students in a particular batch in some school in Karnataka choose Hindi, they will be taught Hindi as a language, If a majority of students in a particular batch in some school in UP choose Sanskrit or Tamil or Marathi, that language will be taught as a language in school.

This takes into account the impracticality of building an artificial vocabulary and translations for the humungous amounts of technical books written in English. One needs to apply some thought into the sheer amount of money, effort and time that will need to be put into generating words in local languages for things like "CPU pins", "CPU registers", "Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks", etc. etc. etc.

Also, let us try to make it such that "Indian English" is also an acceptable dialect of English, just like American English or Australian English. People make fun of Indian English, and even Indians who settle in the US or UK make fun of "Indianisms" like "do the needful" or "5 years back".

If one billion people use a certain phrase, that is the correct usage of the language, period. No one seems to make fun of Americans for saying things like "there ain't no need to do that", or spelling "honour" as "honor". Why make fun of Indians for saying "He is out of station" or "please do the needful" or "1 lakh is his daily income"? These are perfectly valid - this is Indian English. Why should we feel inferior and allow ourselves to be ridiculed over this?

 

[Mad Indian]

And even the ukrain seccession started when Ukrainian was forced on the russian minority... some dum ----s will never learn

 

[Waffen SS]

@Bangalorean I agree with your view points completely. I am of Arts Back ground and no problem with Bengali.

@Mad Indian, can you ride taxi, and speak with the driver in English? No. In my understanding, Hindi is link language of India, learn your subject up to Higher Secondary Level, in your mother tongue, and to communicate with world learn English.

How will you convince me that language which Aam-Aami can not understand how it can be link language within India?

 

[Mad Indian]

And people seriously need to get a hold of reality...


Tamil nadu offers both Tamil and English medium of education till 12th standard.. And almost all tamil medium students invariably fail jn their first year of professional courses becuase of the struggle they have to face since they cant understand english well