Why China failed in creating own brands

[Singh]

@TrueSpirit1

You are arguing that Indian IT cos are giving a fight to MNCs in some areas. And I repeat Wipro, Infosys are shitty brands.

The kind of work they do and do you know their billing rates ?

I think @LurkerBaba will make better and more articulate arguments here.

Cognizant's sales and marketing is excellent, and they are projecting themselves as an American company which is working for them. I was with a Congizant senior honcho last week. He was all praise for the young CEO.

 

[tarunraju]

Except that brands like Lenovo and Haier are very much present in India.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

@TrueSpirit1

You are arguing that Indian IT cos are giving a fight to MNCs in some areas. And I repeat Wipro, Infosys are shitty brands.

What kind of work they do, do you know their billing rates ?

I think @LurkerBaba will make better and more articulate arguments here.

Cognizant's sales and marketing is excellent, and they are projecting themselves as an American company which is working for them. I was with a Congizant senior honcho last week. He was all praise for the young CEO.

well we aren't talking about billing rates, do we?
.
for brands you have to neglect the rates

 

[Compersion]

A good sample of Chinese brand charting its course globally - Geely

China's Geely targets Russia sales push with Belarus venture


Chinese Car Sales up 88% in Russia | World | RIA Novosti

Geely announces $11 billion investment in Volvo

Volvo was good also beneficial purchase and able to garner the image of quality and safety into geely that it did not have before.

But you have to admit the deal of the century was tata motors and jaguar and landrover. In terms of price and the total revolution it had.

Further what indian companies are doing abroad with companies like ssangyong and ktm and royal Enfield is the message that india and indian companies do not only look at ipr extraction, monetary and what's in it for the pocket but long term and partnership relationships.

This was why jaguar and also Aston Martin (recently) had indian suitors. That was luxury and much more Quality ...

I was more fascinated to read about Qoros that is probably a better approach for PRC firms in automotive sector ... Manufacture in PRC because of cost and logistics and market with partner from overseas.

Qoros - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also why would Americans be selling to PRC their golden eggs like IBM personal computer division and Motorola phone division. They have provisions for national security yet it was still allowed ... Always wanted to analyse and is it because the Americans know what is Future technology direction (like away from PC to tablets and high end smartphones like iPhones), saturated market and low margins what is the reason. Is it the PRC offered something advantageous to the company. Because if Americans did not sell these companies ...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

so your conclusion is that cheap labor cost makes India unable to create brand?

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Low cost labor like china do not focus on marketing or building a brand
China does more manufacturing India more services I have not
Seen any brands exported by china

 

[Singh]

well we aren't talking about billing rates, do we?
.
for brands you have to neglect the rates

If you have Infosys, Wipro on your resume, I am told your chances of landing plum jobs is limited. But I am not in this sector anymore so can't say.

 

[no smoking]

on other hand india producer own weapons with innovation
.
eg. Arjun, tejas,astra, akash, arihant,kolkata class, shivalik class etc.

Well, the weapons which are full of foreign components. You just create your won definition of "innovation".

all over the world china is known for nothing but cost effectiveness( I don't like word cheap personally)
.
and except lenovo not many know about chinese equipment .
.
and on other hand india atleast have some brands like tata, reliance etc.

Then, how come I haven't seen the products of these brands in Australia? Of course, if you count "landrover" as indian brand, then I do see a lot.

The point is people here are not complaininig Indian products as much as Chinese products.
The reason is: we don't have much indian products here at all!
.

the report indicates just 45% purchase of chinese products by china and in india import export gap is 10 percent 95% is import of oil and gold (that's too from indian companies like hindustan petroleum etc) and fdi is just 26% so condition much feverable to indian companies

So, Indians have nothing to complain about Chinese products, right?

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Well, the weapons which are full of foreign components. You just create your won definition of "innovation".




Then, how come I haven't seen the products of these brands in Australia? Of course, if you count "landrover" as indian brand, then I do see a lot.

The point is people here are not complaininig Indian products as much as Chinese products.
The reason is: we don't have much indian products here at all!
.


So, Indians have nothing to complain about Chinese products, right?

astra and other missiles are total indigenous
.
arjun is 60% indigenous
.
tejas is 65% indigenous ( later indigenous engine will be fitted
.
much better than chinese product though cause china also purchase engine , seats ,tyres which china can't copy
.
so simply rate of innovation is more in india than in china
.
and we here talking about america

 

[Cliff@sea]

Its ironic that inspite of 'HUAWEI' mentioning itself inadvertently about 6-7 times in this thread (nimo's cell i gather) no one has bothered to mention it specifically

from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Huáwéi is a Chinese multinational networking and telecommunications equipment and services company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong.[4] It is the largest telecommunications equipment maker in the world, having overtaken Ericsson in 2012.[5]

Its products and services have been deployed in more than 140 countries and it currently serves 45 of the world's 50 largest telecoms operators.[16]

. . . and if some one is using a wireless dongle here in India, they most likely are using a Huawei brand equipment.

 

[amoy]

Low cost labor like china do not focus on marketing or building a brand
China does more manufacturing India more services I have not
Seen any brands exported by china

Manufacturing is the basis, which service (tertiary) sectors are servicing and thriving on. All relatively HEALTHY leading economies have a strong manufacturing - Germany, Japan, France...

As u flag as American, I'd like to showcase another brand Indians/Americans are likely to pass by without noticing Chinese.

Shuanghui International and Smithfield Foods Agree to Strategic Combination, Creating a Leading Global Pork Enterprise (NYSE:SFD)

SMITHFIELD, Va. and HONG KONG, May 29, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Smithfield Foods, Inc. (NYSE:SFD) and Shuanghui International Holdings Limited today announced that they have entered into a definitive merger agreement that values Smithfield at approximately US$7.1 billion, including the assumption of Smithfield's net debt. Shuanghui International is the majority shareholder of Henan Shuanghui Investment & Development Co. (SZSE:000895), which is China's largest meat processing enterprise and China's largest publicly traded meat products company as measured by market capitalization.

About Smithfield Foods

Smithfield Foods is a $13 billion global food company and the world's largest pork processor and hog producer. In the United States, the company is also the leader in numerous packaged meats categories with popular brands including Smithfield®, Eckrich®, Farmland®, Armour®, Cook's®, Gwaltney®, John Morrell®, Kretschmar®, Curly's®, Carando®, Margherita®, and Healthy Ones®.

The same way as Lenovo acquiring IBM Thinkpad.

 

[nimo_cn]

Shitty brands...really..? :shocked:

Anyone who has visibility into the business aspect of really big IT contracts (starting from 500 million USD) would tell you otherwise.

TCS is the business-technology outsourcing guerrilla that no one denies, since it successfully competes & wins against likes of IBM, Accenture, CSC etc....in any & all domains including legacy application modernization.

In the IMS space, HCL is fast zooming past everyone else & is getting contracts that were with IBM's for decades. Even niche, reputed federal accounts (some, that cannot be named), the bastions of above 3 MNC players has already been breached & is getting conquered steadily & visibly.

Even, Tech Mahindra & Wipro have already emerged as a Jack of all trades be it IMS or ADM & are giving the MNC's a run for their money.

In ADM & SMAAC space, there is no stopping Cognizant (once headquartered in India).

If the scorching pace of growth continues (& there is every possibility that it would only accelerate owing to macro-economic environment & other commercial drivers), within a decade, these 4-5 companies would be the global IT giants to reckon with. Already Some of these are even becoming employer of choice in UK & Central-East EU because they are growing, offer real growth (beyond lip-service) & are snatching contracts from the outsourcing biggies.

I have worked (& currently working) for MNC giants & I know my rivals (these Indian IT players) in & out. Be it, strength, weakness, opportunity or threat.

Infosys is like a giant sweatshop in IT industry, it's big but low end.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[nimo_cn]

Low cost labor like china do not focus on marketing or building a brand
China does more manufacturing India more services I have not
Seen any brands exported by china

if being compared to India, China is certainly not low cost labor, otherwise manufacturing wont be shifted from China to India.

No intention to show off, but Chinese brands do enjoy more exposure in international market than Indian ones.

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[bose]

Infosys is like a giant sweatshop in IT industry, it's big but low end.

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Indians make upto 60% of the IBM ers globally, the largest IT company ...

Watch out for TCS where it reaches in next 5 years...

 

[nimo_cn]

Indian make upto 60% of the IBM ers globally...

Watch out for TCS where it reaches in next 5 years...

Maybe that is true, but doesnt make IBM an Indian brand.

On the contrary, it proves India's inability to create brand despite having a pool of brilliant people, most of who end up working for westerners.

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[amoy]

Indians make upto 60% of the IBM ers globally, the largest IT company ...

Watch out for TCS where it reaches in next 5 years...

Glad that u mentioned IBM. Here comes another showcasing of Chinese brand build-up move, by acquistion -

Lenovo agrees to buy IBM's server business for $2.3 billion | PCWorld

Lenovo Group has agreed to buy IBM's x86 server hardware business and related maintenance services for $2.3 billion, it announced Thursday.

The deal encompasses IBM's System x, BladeCenter and Flex System blade servers and switches, x86-based Flex integrated systems, NeXtScale and iDataPlex servers and associated software, blade networking and maintenance operations. IBM will retain its System z mainframes, Power Systems, Storage Systems, Power-based Flex servers, and PureApplication and PureData appliances.

Lenovo will pay $2.07 billion in cash for the IBM business unit, topping up its offer with shares.

 

[nimo_cn]

To be frank, i think IT industry in India is more like sweatshops in China, although the former sounds more high–tech, but actually is not.

Indian IT companies focus on software outsourcing from western IT giant, it is like Apple outsources the assembling jobs to Chinese factories.

Most Indian IT talents are working for IBM, Microsoft, etc, leaving none for Indian domestic IT companies. And India doesnt not have a market to sustain the development of its domestic IT companies, since the market has already been conquered by foreign companies.

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[bose]

Maybe that is true, but doesnt make IBM an Indian brand.

On the contrary, it proves India's inability to create brand despite having a pool of brilliant people, most of who end up working for westerners.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

I am intentionally did not mentioned the Indian IT companies which are on the verge of breaking into top 10 globally in next 5 years... There will be atleast five of them comming up very rapidly with double digit growth rate inspite of economic down turn in the western world...

The Indian brand to watch out ... TCS, Infosys, Wipro, Cognigent and HCL Tech makes the tier 1 companies in India... there are some very promising tier 2 companies in India likes of MindTree, iGate and others that are doing better...

My point is if we leave aside the Indian companies for the time being.... The TOP IT companies such as IBM, Oracle, CapGemini, Dellotte, Microsoft etc you will find the Indian are making majority of the employees...

What Indians have to do now is to produce more "Thought Leaders" in the IT field where we still have to do a catching up...

 

[bose]

Glad that u mentioned IBM. Here comes another showcasing of Chinese brand build-up move, by acquistion -

Lenovo agrees to buy IBM's server business for $2.3 billion | PCWorld

Lenovo is doing very good and probably the most recognised Chinese brand globally... Infact in India too it is pushing very hard the other brands such as Dell and HP...

What India and China needs is to produce a people like Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs, I see by where India is lacking in more investement on product based IT initiatives rather than in IT services...

 

[billyong]

Lenovo is doing very good and probably the most recognised Chinese brand globally... Infact in India too it is pushing very hard the other brands such as Dell and HP...

What India and China needs is to produce a people like Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs, I see by where India is lacking in more investement on product based IT initiatives rather than in IT services...

No offence here. When India's IT company can made the headline on the CNN front page, then we can start to compare India's IT with China.
Here is the Chinese cheaper version of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs..

China's Alibaba files for landmark IPO
China's Alibaba files for landmark IPO - May. 6, 2014
"Alibaba, arguably the world's biggest e-commerce company, filed paperwork on Tuesday that sets the stage for what could be the biggest initial public offering in U.S. history."

Tencent: China's hottest tech company
Tencent: China's hottest tech company - Jan. 8, 2014
"You'll find the answer in China, where Tencent has been spinning a web of mobile, telecom and online retail businesses that rank among the largest in the world."

 

[Ajesh]

I am waiting for a day where the Real China would be discovered somewhere near Antartica and the land mass above Tibet would be declared a Fraudulent Land just like all its products.