Why can't India do a US to the likes of Dawood, Saeed?

[Rage]

My take, they can't do it for a variety of reasons.

But here's what Lt. Gen. Parnaik has to say :



Can target militant camps inside PaK: Lt Gen Parnaik

May 5, 2011

Nagrota, May 5: Day after Army chief Gen V K Singh said the Indian army was "competent" to carry out an operation similar to the one conducted by the US in Abbottabad, Pakistan against Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, Army's Udhampur-based Northern Command chief Lt Gen KT Parnaik Thursday said his troops are prepared to take action against militants inside Pakistan administered Kashmir (PaK) as and when it is decided.

"Indian government is well aware of the militant training camps in Pakistani-occupied Kashmir. When the time comes, we will be able to take action as and when it is needed," Lt Gen K T Parnaik told reporters on the sidelines of a conference here.

He was replying to questions about a US-type surgical strike and covert operations on Pakistani soil to target militant training camps as also LeT founder Hafiz Sayeed and United Jihad Council (UJC) chief Syed Salahuddin. "These are actions required to be taken at the national level," he said.

"We have the coordinates and details of the camps. They have been shared with everyone that is to be considered- the intelligence agencies, establishment. The government is aware about these," Lt Gen Parnaik said.

On the Army's preparedness to meet any cross-border infiltration attempts and unrest in the summer period in Jammu and Kashmir, the GOC-in-C said; "We are thoroughly prepared for summer season (in the Kashmir Valley),".
On questions regarding the security in Kashmir and possibility of a repeat of the last year's summer unrest, Lt Gen Parnaik said "hopefully we should be able to manage it".

Regarding militancy, the GOC-in-C said that security situation has bettered and militancy level is low. "Let me say for the last few months in Jammu and Kashmir, violence and militancy parameters have been down. The security forces have managed very well," he said.

Referring to infiltrations, he said "infiltration has not started until recently. But there are indications that infiltration is likely to commence as snow-levels have come down. We are intercepting messages about attempts to infiltrate via traditional routes".

The GOC said that Pakistan has always calibrated infiltrations and violence in Jammu and Kashmir.

To a question about Osama bin Laden's killing on Pakistani soil, he said "Pakistan is under considerable pressure for whatever has happened because after-all Osama was killed in Pakistan and that raises lot of questions which are being discussed".
"I don't see any immediate repercussion as such. But these are issues which only time will tell. We will wait and watch," he said in reply to a question about the fallouts of Osama's killing on Kashmir.

Commenting on the recent car bomb attack near northern command headquarters in Udhampur, Kashmir he said, "Yes, we are worried about it. It is something which has not happened in Udhampur and south of Pir Panchal. But we are aware of their cause and we have taken precautions."


http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...litant-camps-inside-pak-lt-gen-parnaik-45.asp

 

[A chauhan]

Lol!! i found this on Live fist !!

 

[Sabir]

It is not going to work.......whoever has thought it out is inspired by the Kasab & co.....A sub in Pakistani water can create problems...Dawood's mansion in Karachi is heavily guarded....No reason to think his private security personnels are dumb. There will be good casualties...A shoot out is going to alarm pakistani authority and Indian commanos will be in danger....And Dawood may not be available at home to meet the commandos.

 

[chex3009]

It is not going to work.......whoever has thought it out is inspired by the Kasab & co.....A sub in Pakistani water can create problems...Dawood's mansion in Karachi is heavily guarded....No reason to think his private security personnels are dumb. There will be good casualties...A shoot out is going to alarm pakistani authority and Indian commanos will be in danger....And Dawood may not be available at home to meet the commandos.

Some Indian News channels reporting Dawood is in Murri, a hill-station near islamabad. Don't know why all wanted men runs towards Islamabad when they smell something foul????

 

[Param]

Some Indian News channels reporting Dawood is in Murri, a hill-station near islamabad. Don't know why all wanted men runs towards Islamabad when they smell something foul????

Don't go by what some channel says.He is probably there to beat the heat.It's summer. Why would he be worried about some action by India given our track record.

 

[chex3009]

Don't go by what some channel says.He is probably there to beat the heat.It's summer. Why would he be worried about some action by India given our track record.

He is on the run, he is warned by the ISI and is advised not to use his cellphone till further notice by the ISI. Maybe they fear yanks....

 

[A chauhan]

It is not going to work.......whoever has thought it out is inspired by the Kasab & co.....A sub in Pakistani water can create problems...Dawood's mansion in Karachi is heavily guarded....No reason to think his private security personnels are dumb. There will be good casualties...A shoot out is going to alarm pakistani authority and Indian commanos will be in danger....And Dawood may not be available at home to meet the commandos.

Yes haha, it is planned as if they are going to buy Vegetables (Sabzi Bhaji) from Supermarket by city bus.

 

[prahladh]

I don't understand their shit. U.S conducted the Op. & we are being warned. WTF man.

 

[Rage]

Nailing India's most wanted


A useful debate here:


http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-big-fight/nailing-indias-most-wanted/198918?hp




It seems to me like the only guy who was candid at that interview was the civilian who almost became a victim of the 26/11 massacre.

I can appreciate Mr. Amarjeet Dullat not speaking on the issue, because he's a former R&AW operative. I can even appreciate Gen. Prathap Pathankar being a little subliminal. What I can't appreciate is no one else identifying what the crux of the issue is. Whether it's lack of capability, lack of intelligence or lack of will power, a fear of the international reprisals, a real, perceived fear of brinkmanship, a combination of all or something else. I, personally, don't believe in that moral scruple bull&hit. If we wanted to, we would've done it anyway. We have never hesitated, when something else is at stake. To me, it seems like international pressure: specifically the U.S. To let it play out, as it will. To let the end game come, which involves an inordinate benefit for the West and a vindication of our interest. To me that seems the strongest factor. Capability, there certainly exists. Intelligence, to some extent. Will perhaps, if the right people make the decisions. But, in the end it boils down to who controls the majority stakes in the region and who pulls the puppet strings on Pakistan. And that, is undoubtedly, the U.S.

 

[ejazr]

Two interesting articles by IPCS on this topic. Why India can't do an Osama type operation and why it can.


Emulate Operation Abbottabad?: No India Can’t by Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

A mere three days after the elimination of Osama bin Laden, two of India's service chiefs made statements to the effect that India's armed forces were both 'competent' and 'had the capability' to carry out a similar operation. This seems to be at variance with the facts and also ignores much deeper operational and doctrinal issues, added to the military's seeming inability to grasp geopolitical reality.

Beginning with capability - photos of the crashed chopper from the Abbottabad compound indicate a heavily stealthy version of the Blackhawk, a version never seen before - and probably one that would have never been seen had it not crashed. That India could manufacture a covert-ops stealth helicopter, given that it is still struggling to indigenize the ostentatiously 'indigenous' Dhruv, stretches credibility to the limit. The live link to the White House which enabled the joint special operations command (JSOC) to give critical directions at critical turns is heavily dependent on advanced satellite communications facilities of which India has no demonstrated capability and is excluded from, due to the refusal to sign the communications interoperability agreement (CISMOA) with the US.

One also needs to remember that unlike the West, India has no significant heliborne combat rescue capability or experience - a prerequisite for covert insertions of this kind. Since after 1991, the West has successfully rescued every one of its downed pilots, even in the face of overwhelming odds. Contrast this with Kargil in 1999, where Indian aviators were downed owing to lack of counter-measures on their aircraft. In addition, those that did eject on the wrong side of the border did not have the training to evade capture nor the Air Force a credible extraction capability. Moreover the Mi-8/17's (the backbone of India's helicopter fleet) crudeness should be contrasted with the sophistication of Pakistan's latest F-16 fighters mated to advanced air-to-air missiles and the Aspide surface to air missiles. The Mi-8 incidentally is the same machine that was shot down by 80s era Stinger missiles in Kargil, indicating that the Air Force had not factored it in as threat even a full decade later.

The creation of a joint chief of the armed forces was torpedoed by both the Navy and the Air Force fearing Army domination of any such institution - effectively ruling out any synergistic effort on the lines of JSOC. Political interference in military matters for its part has made a joke of operational secrecy. This was demonstrated during Kargil when Defence Minister Fernandez' absolution of Nawaz Sharif was criticized, proved by the release of recorded conversations that blew the cover off one of India's highest value intelligence assets Рthe surveillance system that had enabled these recordings of the deliberations of the Pakistan military to be made. The DRDO too is notorious for thoughtlessly trumpeting new weapons systems unmindful of the consequences, the latest being the Ballistic Missile Defence programme that drove Pakistan's recent expansion of its nuclear arsenal. This is a heavy price to pay given that most DRDO programmes are proven failures. As for RAW evidently the Indian media is able to locate wanted fugitives with greater accuracy than a 'professional' organization as India Today's expos̩ on Dawood Ibrahim's hiding place in Karachi proved.

Geopolitically an operation like this would be a disaster since Pakistan could then justify shooting down Western planes claiming ignorance of their origin - crippling the latter's targeted elimination operations in the FATA - a significant own goal the Americans would not take kindly to. Also one must remember that Pakistan's eastern border is guarded by twenty strong divisions, all on high alert, while the western border merits a mere five weak divisions, trained to treat air incursions as both routine and authorized. While India may be able to launch some haphazard strike - whether it can militarily or diplomatically contain the fallout remains doubtful. The option of targeted assassinations has long existed - but raises questions as to why the military never presented it as an option before - settling instead for the dangerous delusion of 'Cold Start'. In fact the drones that India could use for such an operation have high radar visibility optimized for Israeli operations where the opposition has no credible air defence as opposed to the Indian scenario where the opposition has mauled the Indian Air Force repeatedly.

Given that the then Army Chief's lack of knowledge of ammunition stocks led to stalemate instead of victory in 1965, given that the Army initially tried to hush up Kargil, given that the official war histories of 1965 and 1971 are off-limits - even to those studying in the defence academy, given that 'Cold Start' is proving itself an unusable liability, given that the military takes decades to gauge and respond to new threats (if at all), the question begs asking - Is not the political leadership's distrust of the military legitimate? One can only hope that the advice given to the Prime Minster in private is of better quality than the wild hyperbole fed to the public.

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Emulate Operation Abbottabad?: Yes India Can by Gurmeet Kanwal

The killing of Osama bin Laden by US Special Forces in Abbottabad, a Pakistan military cantonment that houses the Pakistan Military Academy and the Baloch Regiment Centre, is undoubtedly a significant achievement in the annals of counter-terrorism. About 70 US troops, largely Navy SEALs, were involved in the heliborne operation launched from Jalalabad, Afghanistan. While one helicopter had to be destroyed, there were no American casualties. Operation Geronimo was a classic textbook military operation that will be studied for many years by military planners. It was boldly conceived, meticulously planned and methodically executed.

It is completely in keeping with the Pakistani army and the ISI's perfidious character that Osama was found in a Pakistani cantonment. CIA chief Leon Panetta said after the strike, "It was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardise the mission. They might alert the targets." John Brennan, counter-terrorism adviser to President Obama has said, "It was inconceivable that Osama bin Laden did not have a support system in Pakistan that allowed him to remain there for an extended period of time." Also, only a week ago leaked US embassy cables had described the ISI as a terrorist organization. Hard questions are now being asked and several US Senators and members of Congress have called for the suspension of all aid to Pakistan.

The death of bin Laden will not mark the end of al Qaeda's terrorist strikes. It will be only a temporary setback for the organization as it has a cellular structure and is not hierarchical. Leaders heading various cells have always operated fairly autonomously and will continue to do so. The al Qaeda has developed linkages and coordinates its operations with many international affiliates, including the LeT, JeM and HuJI. Its peculiar brand of Jihad will go on. In fact, in the short term, some reprisal attacks may be expected against western targets and those in India. A spectacular attack with a 'dirty nuke' - a high explosive bomb filled with radioactive material - also cannot be ruled out.

Since the ISI knew about Osama's presence at Abbottabad for five years and even provided support to him, it has been proved beyond an iota of doubt that it is a rogue intelligence agency that must be dismantled. The Pakistan army and the ISI are part of the problem and cannot, therefore, be part of the solution in the so-called 'global War on Terror'. Pakistan is in danger of collapsing from the centrifugal forces generated by internal instability and accentuated by creeping Talibanization, and its inner contradictions as a state ruled for long by the army. If the probability of collapse reaches the tipping point as it soon might, Pakistan's nuclear warheads must be taken out or destroyed in order to avoid a nuclear holocaust on the Indian subcontinent. Such an international effort will invariably have to be led by the Americans. As the most directly affected party, India must provide all the help and assistance that the US might ask for, including direct military participation.

The main lesson for India from the spectacular military operation conducted by the CIA and the US Special Forces is that nations that are too moralistic and legalistic in dealing with the complex challenge of state-sponsored terrorism usually end up as hapless victims. Only pro-active covert operations conducted by counter-terrorism agencies and Special Forces can raise the cost for the adversary sufficiently enough to deter him from launching terror strikes. There is no reason why terrorist-criminals like Hafiz Sayeed, Masood Azhar and Dawood Ibrahim should be walking freely, planning future terrorist strikes and delivering inflammatory anti-Indian speeches from Pakistani soil. They can and must be brought to justice through covert operations launched by Indian counter-terrorism agencies in concert with armed forces personnel of the Special Forces.

The US and Israel have repeatedly demonstrated their determination to eliminate non-state actors who plan terror strikes against them. In the interest of national security, India too must follow the same lead. The major requirements for pro-active operations are political will, meticulous intelligence acquisition and the requisite counter-terrorism and military capabilities. The government must permit the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) to re-establish covert operations capabilities that were dismantled under a prime minister's orders around 1997. Air assault capabilities exist with the armed forces, but these need to be modernized and qualitatively upgraded.

 

[Tshering22]

^^ Very well written. I found it very childish of military chiefs to attempt some hand at gaining limelight after the OBL killing at the hands of SEALs. Indian Army is not even normally equipped at the moment to handle any conventional threats, let alone carry a covert strike into the heart of Pakistan. Neither we have stealth choppers, nor our men (brave) have the right equipment like SEALs do. Not to mention the political leverage that USA has over Pakistan which we don't have.

 

[Stuge]

I see one and only reason is political will .

 

[A chauhan]

I think India wants to avoid trade and technological embargoes from leading countries, and gain the support of major countries of the world against Pakistan. India's attempts to bring the true face of Terrorist Factory Pakistan before the world is first time resulting openly before the world and international community. Wikileaks has exposed that US knew it from a long time that ISI is responsible for terrorist attacks on India.The iron is first time heating up, and we should wait till the iron really gets hot!

Why to waste our military power against such a poor country which can give us only a jock-itch, when we already have China which is 3 times bigger than us as arch rival.Our any attack on Pakistan and resulting war can push our country and its economy many years back.

This is the time when Pakistan must be wishing to get an attack by Indian forces on PoK terrorist training camps or most wanted criminals like Daawood, so that they can gain the sympathy of the world & Muslim community, and divert the attention of the world from Osama Bin Laden to their pathetic economy and Indian aggression.

 

[Yusuf]

Yusuf we'll need covert assets in Af-Pak to execute such missions. AFAIK, they were disabled in 90s. Or are you counting on Balochs etc ?

Regards,
Virendra

Well yes but I don't think we have no presence at all over there. It's not possible that RAW has no operatives there or no assets at all. I am sure we could use them. Better still use the Pashtuns in Astan using our network there. Also I don't think it will be difficult to hire paid killers. Saeed organizes so many rallies where he spouts venom against india. What holds is from hiring contract killers to bump him off?

 

[mattster]

Lol!! i found this on Live fist !!

Whoever came up with this plan - must be the dumbest clown.

After killing Dawood - there are going to take a F*cking bus back to the beach ??? ......LMAO.....OMG its too funny.

This post belongs in the comedy section

 

[Stuge]

Lol!! i found this on Live fist !!

oh man,this is just too funny IMO.

 

[sandeepdg]

That might be a wrong strategy, what will stop our politicians from using the same agencies to kill people inside our own country? Even CIA/MI6 don't have the license to kill.

CIA/MI6 and Mossad all have a license to kill. And do you know how many people has CIA/Mossad/MI6 killed to date ?

An operation like Geronimo is not possible, simply because we don't have intelligence assets on the ground, we don't have high tech surveillance like US does, our forces don't have the kind of gear that US special forces do, and above all our leaders don't have the guts to undertake such an operation.

 

[sandeepdg]

I don't understand their shit. U.S conducted the Op. & we are being warned. WTF man.

Its a no-brainer, mate. We are not US and don't come with the privileges of operating anywhere in the world. Even if Pakistan knew there would be an US op, they wouldn't have done anything. That won't be the case with India obviously.

 

[sandeepdg]

Also, people here suggesting using assets like Chota Rajan & Co. just because they have contacts with RAW and IB, must know Chota Rajan doesn't have the balls or the resources to counter Dawood Ibrahim in Pakistan, especially since he is under the ISI's protection.

 

[Virendra]

Can do an Abbottabad, but it is against our values: Saraswat
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/C...ut-it-is-against-our-values--Saraswat/789257/

India has the capability to carry out an Abbottabad-style attack, but won't as such a move is against its democratic principles, Scientific Adviser to the defence minister V K Saraswat said on Wednesday.

Saraswat's comments came days after Pakistan warned India against considering any such an operation and amid talk in some sections of the strategic community and the media about whether India could emulate the Americans to eliminate its most-wanted who are hiding in Pakistan.

Saraswat was speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a 'National Technology Day' function at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre. This day marks the anniversary of successful nuclear tests in Pokhran on May 11 and 13, 1998.

"India is never going to unnecessarily take cudgels on any system. Our democratic system and polices don't allow us to go to another country and start killing people. We don't gain anything by killing. But, in terms of capability, India is well-equipped to meet any such challenge and we have the skills to carry out this kind of an operation," Saraswat said when asked if India had the capability to mount such an attack.

Saraswat also said that warfare technology would be developed enough by 2020 to possibly include an unmanned battlefield with unmanned systems and a single command centre, unmanned ground, aerial and underwater vehicles, unmanned tanks and gun-mounted robots.

On DRDO's future projects and focus areas, Saraswat, who heads the premier defence organisation, said it would include high-powered laser, microwaves and particle beams to target enemy missiles, and anti-satellite neutralization or destruction of hostile satellites. Focus areas will also include futuristic laser weapons.

What kind of a message is this?
As someone said rightly in the comments .. utterly rubbish pseudo-ethics that haven't and will never save the innocent citizenry that is getting killed every now and then, for 3 decades now.
Look at the bold part. According to him, OBL was in the category of people. To us Indians he was an animal .. pure savage !!

Regards,
Virendra