Who the army's voting for

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Yusuf, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    All said and done, its not a good thing for the army to be seen to be associated with any political party. We know very well how divisive Indian politics is.

    I'm all for army officers and soldiers voting and expressing their political views as individuals, but at an institutional level, its a bit like playing with fire.

    Still, its just an ex-servicemen organization so there's no real cause for alarm.
     
  2. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    I dont like the idea that Servicemen or exservicemen groups endorcing any political party, they may do so in their individual level not as collectively, that is not good for country......... Ofcourse the servicemen have found BJP as natural party for their cause, but you cannot strech it and ask by ex- servicemen groups to vote for perticular party, our forces should be kept out of political parties or we will see bad trend their the services are supporting particular party, this is bad......... real bad........
     
  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Why is it bad when it is done by ex-servicemen, especially when they are not treated properly by govt., which doesn't even provide proper facilities to the active army men forget about ex-service men.

    At individual level no body listens to their voice but when done in a collective manner, they do get noticed and it gives fillip to them that somebody is there to take care of their problems.
     
  4. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    How can defensive units be used for offensive thrusts? Aren't defense units, by definition, unable to attack? To my understanding, while keeping airpower out of such a scenario, in a pure land battle, an invading force has to be at least twice the size of the defending force in order to successfully capture the strategic points they're holding. Defensive units are designed to make use of the terrain, build up their defenses such that they can hold off against a much larger opposing force.

    In that case, how can these 'pivots' be used for offensive strike purposes without any backing from the main offensive units of the IA? Unless air power is used massively to soften enemy bases before the pivots strike, how can such a gameplan work?*

    *(Please feel free to rip my post to shreds, because I don't have any practical experience of the above, just what one can garner from books. I also confess that I have only gone through the Cold Start strategy document once in the past, so I may be missing out on key concepts here. I'm sure the generals and strategists of the IA have thought this through well before adopting this doctrine. But I'd love for someone to explain it in more detail.)
     
  5. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Who the army's voting for
    Priya Ramani - Friday, April 03, 2009 4:48 PM
    Who the army's voting for - Mint Manifesto
    This morning's Hindustan Times had a great story on how the army is getting ready to vote for its rights. The article said the army has directed all formations across the country to vote and to get their families to vote. The newspaper estimates the number of army personnel, along with their families and ex-servicemen at around one crore people. "Enough to turn the tide in the electoral battlefield," the newspaper says.

    The army, angry about the government's refusal to tackle its longstanding one-rank-one-pension demand, is going all out to ensure the next government will be one who listens to it. No surprise then that the BJP's just out election manifesto is full of goodies for the Indian defence forces.

    LK Advani had already promised earlier this month that he would reexamine the army's demand and sort out the one-rank-one-pension issue.

    In addition, the manifesto has more promises:


    The Indian Army, Air Force and Navy need to be strengthened in view of rapidly changing regional and global realities. Tragically, the services have been ignored by the Congress and failure to address the concerns of the Army, Air Force and Navy has bred undesirable discontent. The BJP will address all pending issues immediately. It will be guided by the following solemn commitments while dealing with the defence of India:

    1. The long-pending acquisition of military hardware will be expedited through absolutely transparent means in a time-bound manner.

    2. Budget allocations for defence forces will be spent without being allowed to lapse. The criminal negligence of the defence forces by the UPA Government has resulted in nearly Rs 24,000 crore by way of budgetary allocations being allowed to lapse over five years. This not only endangers the lives of our soldiers but also the security of the nation.

    3. Our forces are performing a service to the nation and deserve better pay and privileges.

    Towards this end, the BJP is committed to the following measures: a. The pending issues of pay and privileges will be revisited and resolved to the satisfaction of the defence forces. The modalities for setting up a separate Pay Commission for the forces will be expedited; b. All personnel of the Army, Air Force and Navy, as also paramilitary forces, will be exempt from paying income tax on their salaries and perquisites; c. The honorarium for winners of gallantry awards like Pram Vir Chakra, which is abysmally low at Rs 500 to Rs 3,000, will be increased ten-fold to Rs 5,000 to Rs 30,000. This will be done with retrospective effect; the honorarium will be tax free. d. The principle of one rank, one pension will be implemented; e. Incentive-based steps will be taken to make joining the defence services an exciting proposition for young men and women to overcome the shortage of officers; and, f. Incentives will be offered to State Governments for ensuring honourable settlement of retired personnel of the defence services.

    4. The present shortage of defence personnel at all levels will be met by making the Services an attractive career option. This would include competitive pay and privileges, and pension benefits. This task will be completed in a time-bound manner. 5. The capacities of Defence Research and Development Organisation will be enhanced. The PPP route will be explored for conventional defence production bearing in mind the nation's needs and to make India a competitive player in the global market by 2020.

    No prizes for guess who those one crore people will be voting for.
     
  6. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    India’s Million-Strong Military Prepares To Vote
    Planet Powai Online Community News Paper Hiranandani Niranjan Hospital Flat Property Rodas Hotel IIT Indian Institute of Technology Yellow Pages on Powai Photo Gallary Powai Portal Events and Happenings Powai Market Hiranandani Construction
    Agencies

    Powai - 12 April 09 : India's apolitical military is proactively preparing to vote in parliamentary elections only a week away.

    Thanks to steps the military establishment has taken, more than one million forms have been submitted to the Election Commission so that soldiers can vote where ever they may be posted.


    This follows the military brass' decision to ensure that soldiers get to vote -- a democratic privilege many are forced to skip because of flaws in the electoral exercise involving soldiers.


    The Indian Army has 1.1 million men and women, the air force has 140,000 and the navy has about 55,000 personnel. "About 10 lakh (1 million) forms have been forwarded by the army personnel for registration. The Election Commission has acknowledged nearly 45 percent," an army official said, requesting anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to the media.

    In January, the armed forces, for the first time, asked all its personnel to get themselves registered with the poll panel in their area of posting to exercise their right to vote.


    Most Indian soldiers, including airmen and sailors, have never or rarely voted while in service for want of an effective polling mechanism. Military personnel can vote in their area of posting only during general elections and provided they are registered with the Election Commission in that area.

    Most soldiers also find the postal ballot system faulty, and appear to be unaware of the proxy voting system that allows a family member to vote on their behalf.

    Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali H Major said recently: "Although there are proxy voting and postal ballots, things have not materialised as desired."

    The IAF chief has himself not been able to vote regularly because, like most of his colleagues, he has been away from where he has been registered as a voter during election time.

    "The last I voted was 10 years ago when I was home on vacation. I have voted only four times (in 41 years of service)," he said. The Indian Air Force has put all the procedures on its intranet. The notification of the Election Commission has been sent to various command headquarters, which in turn has informed the field units.

    "People are being encouraged to vote," a senior IAF official said. The Election Commission reiterated Monday that defence personnel can use proxy voting.

    But there are complaints against postal ballots. The system suffers from long delays, so much so that at times the postal ballots reach the units after a new government has already taken office.

    Why the sudden desire to vote? While no one is ready to speak on record, some retired and serving officers said this was linked to the discontent among the armed forces due to what they see as a raw deal in revision of pay scales.


    "The armed forces are being shortchanged in the Pay Commission and their lack of say in decision making is hurting them," said another high-ranking army official.
     
  7. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Armed forces chiefs get ready to vote
    April 24th, 2009 - 1:24 pm ICT by IANS Tell a Friend -

    Armed forces chiefs get ready to vote

    New Delhi, April 24 (IANS) India’s armed forces chiefs have got themselves registered with the Election Commission and are raring to vote in these general elections.
    “I will be voting in the elections. I will use the proxy voting system,” Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, chief of the Indian Air Force (IAF), told IANS.


    In an interview to IANS last year, Major had said he had been unable to vote regularly because, like most of his colleagues, he had been away from the constituency where he was registered as a voter.

    “The last I voted was 10 years ago when I was home on vacation. I have voted only four times (in 41 years of service)… Although there are proxy voting and postal ballots, things have not materialised as desired,” he had said.


    Military personnel can vote in their area of posting only during general elections and provided they are registered with the Election Commission in that area. This, however, rarely happens.

    The postal ballot system is in place. However, it suffers from long delays, so much so that at times the postal ballots reach the units after a new government has already taken office.

    Most soldiers also appear to be unaware of the proxy voting system that allows a family member to vote on their behalf.

    Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Indian Navy chief and chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee, had proudly showed his inked finger at a conference after the Delhi assembly elections. He is now all set to vote for the Lok Sabha polls from Delhi Cantonment since that is the station where he is posted.


    “The navy chief has been voting in every election. This time also he will vote at Delhi Cantonment,” a senior navy official said.

    When asked about his voting plans, Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor told IANS: “Yes, I have got myself registered and will vote.”

    In January, the armed forces, for the first time, asked all their personnel to get themselves registered with the poll panel in their area of posting to exercise their right to vote.

    Due to the proactive steps by the military establishment, more than one million forms have been submitted to the Election Commission.

    The Indian Army has 1.1 million men and women, the air force has 140,000 and the navy has about 55,000 personnel.

    Voting is a democratic privilege that many armed forces personnel have been forced to skip in the past because of flaws in the electoral exercise involving soldiers but this now seems set to change.
     
  8. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Now, it’s time for them to take revenge
    Now, it?s time for them to take revenge

    Hemanth C S
    First Published : 04 Apr 2009 07:54:00 AM IST
    Last Updated : 04 Apr 2009 10:57:16 AM IST

    BANGALORE: Disparities in the sixth pay commission and the non-implementation of the ‘One Rank One Pension’ had left them an angered lot.

    Now, it’s time for them to take revenge against the political class, not through the bullet, but the ballot.

    The upcoming Lok Sabha polls are likely to see a significant number of votes being cast by the men in uniform who will be exercising their franchise through postal ballots or proxy votes.

    In India there are 1.2 million defence personnel in addition to the 20 lakh defence pensioners who will get an opportunity to cast their votes during the 15th Lok Sabha elections.

    The Indian Army is said to have directed its personnel and their family members to ensure that they cast their votes in large numbers through the two methods available to them, in order to have a say in the next government formation which can subsequently take up their cause.

    Similarly, the ex-servicemen movement , which has been fighting a long bitter battle with the government over ‘One Rank One Pension’ has also asked retired personnel and their family members to get registered and give a fitting reply to the government which has turned a blind eye to their demands.

    Angered by the government’s apathy, 7,500 gallantry medals have been surrendered by the ex-servicemen, over the last six months.

    The Election Law Amendment 2003 allows the armed personnel to vote from their duty stations through the postal ballot system or appoint a proxies to vote on their behalf.

    “The list is sent two days before the withdrawal of nominations and the voters send it back to the concerned returning officer. The postal ballots papers are first counted, followed by the votes recorded in the Electronic Voting Machines. In case of proxy voting, there are certain formalities to be completed. The returning officer must know that due procedure has been observed in the appointment of the proxy. Once it is cleared, the proxy can vote on behalf of the defence personnel,” said an election commission Official.

    According to election commission statistics, of the total 40,098,823 voters in Karnataka, there are 32,342 defence personnel serving in the Army, Navy and Air Force, of which 25,121 are men and 7,221 are women.

    Belgaum has the highest number of personnel serving in the three armed forces.

    Of the 10,937 personnel there, 8,187 are men and 2,750 women.

    Belgaum is followed by Bagalkot and Kodagu with 2298 and 2231 personnel, respectively.

    Bangalore has 2,160 personnel, while Bangalore Rural constituency, including Ramanagaram district, stands last on the list with just 170 personnel donning the uniform there.
     
  9. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    After all this I hope they will vote decisively and vote for a strong central leadership and not stuff like the weaklings we've had for over the past almost one decade...
     
  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The air force is an integral part of the Cold Start doctrine. The point is that lots of time is lost till the offensive corps arrived and by that time international pressure took care that no war broke out as seen during operation Parakram.
    Also remember that the Cold Start does not aim to make any massive thrust into enemy territory so that it crosses its nuclear threshold. It is all about inflicting a lot of damage withing the red line of Pakistani nuclear threshold.
    So the pivots which are right up there at the border have been assigned certain offensive role so that no time at all is lost inflicting damage to Pakistan. That will be done with the support of the AF, and the IBGs will arrive in due course and take the war from there.
     
  11. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I don't have to be branded as one, Nitesh. You talk about Conservative Hinduism as if it is terrorism. I am what you say "saffron brigade" Hindu in my own right and am extremely conservative about religion. The allegations of right wing parties being violent and racist is as justified as this same Congress calling Bhagat Singh a terrorist, who fought bravely for India against British. No party or no side is perfect but there is always one lesser evil.

    Today's much touted "secular" ruling government because of their spineless attitude, could do nothing when the Mumbai terror attacks happened resulting in the deaths of 170 people despite the fact that it happened WITHIN the country where the government had ABSOLUTE power over every inch of space; while it was the "neo-Nazi" and "Fascist" right wing "saffron" government whose rapid decision-making during Akshardham temple seige and Kandahar hijacking saved the lives of 170 plus people despite the aircraft being in a hostile terrorist-ruled country.

    This "fascist" right wing government also ultimately won us a military AND diplomatic war in terms of Kargil. Despite fighting 3 wars, the Congress was unable to secure any diplomatic victory in the world community.

    I am surprised that the same people who blame the media for spicing up normal matters, eagerly buy into their false lies of the much-bought media hyper about Congress being "secular". Grave atrocities have been committed against Sikhs in 1984 and against Hindus in Kashmir in 1989, both of them under and by the SAME government that today claims to be the Messiah of secularism and nothing was done about it. Had an EQUAL action been taken against ALL of them evenly, it would have ideally defined the true secular nature of our Consitution. Their "Secular messiah" image has cost Kashmiri pandit community their land and today the whole country is under either Maoist terrorism or Pakistani sponsored Jehadi terrorism.

    Secularism means equal regard for every religion and that is something UPA does not understand. Instead of challenging the opposition on issues like increasing defence budget, furthering development of the country and overall increase in healthcare and education, the Congress party relies on alienating and appeasing minority communities with unncessary false promises, which in creates a frustrating gap of privileges between the "majority" and "minority" and therefore divide the country and give rise to Saffron aggression.

    This "messiah of secularism" is the worst separatist in the country at this time, who divides otherwise friendly people into religions by favoring one group and downgrading another, which in turn triggers similar reaction from other parties.

    The day Congress party changes their idea of the British "divide and rule" policy or the day they are thrown out of the country by us Indians, I can say that will be the day India will move ahead towards progress under a nationalistic patriotic banner. Only then will we be able to stand firm against a common enemy outside the country right beside us. A party that can denounce a freedom fighter hero like Bhagat Singh as a terrorist can go to any extent to divide the country on religious lines to retain its votebank.

    Therefore, my request to the common citizenry of India would be to vote for a nationalist party that can protect you all from radical religious terrorism from our dear neighbors. Remember that development can only be thought of if every citizen in the country is safe from negative external influences and terrorism.

    Thanks.
     
  12. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Is that why just prior to the Babri Masjid demolitions, senior leaders of the BJP like Vajpayee and Advani were encouraging kar sevaks to tear down a religious structure? Is that why Modi stood by and fiddled while Gujarat burned? Is that why they ally themselves with parties like the Shiv Sena, whose chief, Thackeray, made inflammatory speeches against Muslims to encourage the riots of Mumbai? Is that also why the Bajrang Dal and various small and large gangs, falling under the banner of Sangh Parivar murder innocent people, torch their homes, rape their women, and justify it in the name of Hindutva?

    If that's the "equal regard for every religion" exhibited by the BJP and their ideological comrades, I'd rather have none of it. Thank you.
     
  13. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Totally agree with you VayuSena... I wanted to write an article like that for quite sometime, but wasn't able to put it through into words that would express my feelings and intense hatred for Congress, especially magnifying after the 26/11 attacks... But, you put it forward expressly, bluntly and exactly in the way I wanted to put forward my feelings...

    Thank you sir...
     
  14. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    I am not in this debate why pulled me :sad:. It is ritesh.

    Any way nice post vaysena1
     
  15. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    gr8 post vayusena. you have hit the nail on the head. congress party and its decades long rule of india is the root cause of most problems. congress party has simply carried forward with british policies in most issues.
    kangress party is a secular as a jackal is a vegge!
    congress party's general policy immortalised under PV narasimha rao is: taking no decision is also a decision.
    he followed this policy during sikh massacare, and even at the time of babri demolition.

    ppl conveniently blame NDA govt for gujarat riots, then shouldnt the same priniciple apply to congress party which was in power during babri demolition, sikh killings?

    modi never justified gujarat riots. after sikh riots, rajiv gandhi says: 'when a big tree falls, ground tremors'. basically, conveying that killing so many sikhs in the capital of the nation is natural event that followed the assasination of his dear mother.

    our sher-e-assam(MMS) cleverly compares kandhahar and mumbai! wat similarities he see between the two is only known to him.

    @unknown:
    vajpayee was cheering karsevaks while they were tearing babri down?! really? who saw it? you?
    in gujarat riots, 800 odd muslims died and 200 odd hindus died. now, how were so many hindus dead. obviously, the police were shooting them down. no where were so many ppl shot down by the police during riots. still gujarat govt was weak, eh? but of course modi is fascist right!

    as for alliances with parties or individuals with dubious record, then left is supported by madani(a known jihadi terrorist and ISI sympathiser). congress party allies with MIM(vitriolic party that has created extreme rift among muslims and non-muslims to fuel its vote-bank).

    plz do back up your allegations.
     
  16. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yes, I did. And now, you will too.

    The Hindu : National / Elections 2004 : This Vajpayee speech campaigns against the NDA

    YouTube - Vajpayee provoking hindus prior Babri demolition - 1

    YouTube - Vajpayee 2 - provoking Hindu fundamentalists on Babri

    YouTube - Vajpayee 3 - provoking Hindu fundamentalists on Babri


    Of course they should! And I certainly do! The Congress has failed to expel the party members who indulged in violence during the 1984 riots, and they should be pulled up for that at every opportunity we get. But it would be silly to blame Congress for Babri Masjid demolition. It wasn't Congress Party activists that tore down the Babri Masjids, it was the kar sevaks, who were part of the Sangh Parivar.

    At many places, the police were standing around doing nothing while Hindu extremists were killing Muslims in front of their eyes. In many other places, BJP MLAs personally led the killings. They did not even spare Congress MPs. One high profile case was that of MP Ehsan Jafri. He was brutally murdered and then his body burnt outside his own apartment.

    Ehsan Jafri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Please don't tell me you support these monsters. In its 62 years of rule, Congress Party activists have never indulged in such heinous violence, barring the 1984 Sikh riots. On the other hand, the very ideology of the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD is divisive and based on hatred for certain minorities. Even when they were not in power, they demolished the Babri Masjid. After coming to power, Gujarat happened. So did the Orissa riots last year, the burning of Graham Staines and his two little kids alive by BD activists, the manhandling of women in the Mangalore pub early this year and so on. The rise of extremism in India is mirrored by the rise of the BJP.

    The Congress may have been many bad things-statist, pandering to minorities, corrupt etc, but at least Congress activists never indulged in mass murder of their fellow citizens.

    And what about the BJP? They're clean? Their candidate from Udaygiri, Orissa, is a person called Manoj Pradhan, who faces 7 murder charges, and is currently in jail.


    I always do. Here's a local Bajrang Dal leader boasting about how he led mobs killing Muslims:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfnT...rderers-boast-on-tape&feature=player_embedded

    Bajrang Dal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     
  17. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    So you choose to have no government at all? Please don't consider putting a non-religious political perspective in Indian subcontinental politics because remember that India is surrounded by countries that are governed by rather specific anti-Hindu/anti-Sikh establishments. Therefore a significant religious perspective has to exist in the government structure even in India and by the way, the "secular" perspective of this incumbent government for the past 30 plus years is what is leading to communal tensions in the country. Allow me to elaborate.

    The 1989 massacre and ethnic cleansing of Pandits happened in Kashmir when this very "secular" party was in full power; This "secular" party was the one that perpetrated the Sikh holocaust. All this happened much before any of the BJPs had ever come to power.

    India is the only country where the host community of the land lives in exile and the "secular" government does nothing to it. All these actions of repeated sectarian appeasement of one community while completely ignoring the others is what created tremendous frustration in the "racist Hindu fanatics" and led to what you saw in 1992 and Godhra massacre. While everyone talks about Gujarat 2002 riots, no one talks about or consoles the family of the pilgrims that were burnt alive. If you think that is not real, let me tell you that one of my very close acquaintences lost his beloved brother in that. In short, secularism has become a word that is used and abused by certain longstanding parties to remain in power and retain their dynastic pattern of ruling in the country.

    Now keeping aside all religious perspectives, talk about the national security. I am sure that you know what has happened under the protection of "great secularist government". More than 5000 Indians have lost their lives in past 4 years due to the appeasing God-knows-whom, indecisive and spineless attitude of incumbent government. When every community in India is outraged and is ready to jointly fight the perpetrator of this horrible attack, the incumbent party has now gone a step ahead by considering appeasement of rival countries.

    Their constant delays with supplies to NSG as pointed out by D.Gen. JK Dutt, delays with approving Naval projects as pointed out by Adm. Sureesh Mehta and snailing around with air force project as pointed out by Major sir, were indirect causes of what took the lives of 15 brave soldiers and 170 innocent civilians and took the remaining alive 60 hours to get rid of 10 terrorists. The pathetic equipment that security forces receive, the insufficient training that they get, all thanks to not upgrading anything or holding onto every bill for the past 40 years is the reason why 26/11 happened.

    And after all this horror, the "secular" government has the audacity to show the place of attack to a film director, has its Home Minister changing clothes thrice in 3 hours and later take the credit of an Indian film made overseas while buying the copyrights of its lead song! Nice going, oh great "secular parties".

    Thanks to you not just Hindus or Sikhs alone but the ENTIRE country is a laughing stock in front of even a small Sri Lanka who knows how to deal with those whom it considers a threat.

    Regards.
     
  18. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Since you consider yourself secular in the right manner, please do bring out similar facts that happened against innocent Hindu families in Kashmir and SIkhs families in Punjab. Today its perpetrators are freely contesting for elections.

    Care to bring out similar related videos, facts, and incidents, please?
     
  19. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Apart from that Vayusena... these so-called secular parties see no harm in joining hands with somebody like Madani in Kerala irrespective of the fact that he's been in jail on terrorism charges...

    Same goes for that Andhra party called MIM where Mr. Owaisi keeps on giving religiously charged speeches and obfuscates just for the sake of grabbing votes...

    Seriously, if these are our secular parties, I'd rather have a bunch of straight talking "ultranationalists" or "saffron brigage" or whatever you call them rule the country...
     
  20. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The main debate here has been what triggered the Army to consider BJP out of the blue. Well I am surprised that people appear so shocked why "Army chose the Racist BJP". Simply because BJP has a rather pleasing track record with men in all the three branches of armed forces. During their tenure, there were practically no strings attached to our decision making bodies in whom to appease and what to do.

    Though as a military body, we tend to remain neutral however I must admit that we do take a liking to parties that respect a soldier's sentiments, needs, understandings and those who know how to protect the country with right and firm decisions.
     

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