johnee
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Laws and enforcing authority(controlling unit) are necessary for a proper social environment. Fear of law actually keeps us safe, secure and sane. Mortal law is partly responsible, but divine law has no equivalent in enforcing righteous conduct. I dont see what is wrong if some thing controls us to be better.Perhaps Religion has had its benefit in the past. However, if you want to live in fear just to be keep the world safe, secure and sane then there would be no logical point in living. Living in Fear means a handful end up controlling you.
For a believer, life has meaning. A believer may believe that the life is tool to attain god or heaven or whatever. Certain laws have been laid down to attain these goals. Almost always, these laws conditions that benefit the society. Like helping the poor, loving your fellow human, being upright and hardworking...etc etc. Thus a believer is guided by these beliefs. On the other hand, from an atheist perspective, this life is meaningless. I am born at a certain place, to certain parents at certain time in a certain condition. Religion tries to explain it. Atheism says that its just an accident and has no meaning. Thus, my genes, my family clout, my family wealth...etc all these are mere accidents with no relevance and with no purpose. Similarly, death is an accident. Like the body got some disease or got weared down and it died. The death has no meaning. Further, many incidents in life are similarly accidents with no special meaning. You see, from an atheist perspective, this whole life and death become accidents and nothing more. For a person born in a relatively reasonable circumstances, life may be precious. But why should some one born in absolute poverty go through the point less suffering instead of just ending it right away. Lets say, someone is bored with his life or is in great tragedy, why should he not end his life? Thus, from an atheist POV, life is meaningless and it does not explain why some needs to go through suffering of life. So, there is no logical point to life from athiest POV, while the life is important and has to be lived properly from believer's POV.
You say that people should use their education to go beyond our limitations. I ask you why? Why should people(from atheist POV) waste their time in useless pursuits like education or surpassing limitations? Why not simply enjoy....? Why not murder some rich guy to steal his money? Why not rape some beauty to quench the lust? From atheist perspective, it is meaningless to say that one should waste one's short life in these issues. Anyway, one would be dead, it does not matter whether he lived properly or demonically. It does not even matter whether he lived long or not. Infact, nothing matters. We are here now, so lets enjoy. If in course of our enjoyment, someone else is being pained....well...too bad.Though the above logic is scientifically sound, this is where people have to use their education to surpass their limitation. Logically an atheist is not bound by the Principles of Religion. However, even today it is the religious people who commit the most atrocious crimes ever committed. Even Hitler who was a stout Catholic encouraged beliefs of Nationalism, Racism and Religious superiority by marginalizing other faiths like the Jews and Atheist Soviet Union. Is this what you are supporting?
You see, how atheist POV, hurts the society.
Hitler/Nazism are extreme examples. Overwhelmingly world is filled with religious people and hence its natural that most wrongdoers are also religious. But what you are claiming is different. You are saying that the mistakes committed are due to the religion and furthermore, if they had been atheists, then these mistakes would not have been carried out. That is the claim I am contesting. Hitler has used race, nationalism and religion as a cards to differentiate people. If we remove these cards, he will use some other cards. If religion is responsible, then majority who adhere to it must do the same mistake. Then, you have to prove that had they not believed in god, they would not have done that mistake. Its your assumption.
I agree, Charvakas were honest about their belief and logically followed it. Similarly, our maharshis were honest about their belief and logically followed it. But in modern day, we find that neither atheists follow their beliefs properly nor believers follow their religion properly. Atheists talk about humanity, love..etc, while believers do not shy from committing sins. Its a strange irony!!Even if the Charvakas had their own belief, they were true to their beliefs. Rather the people who practise religion and its laws still live like the Charvakas.
Ideally, everyone should try to live by the beliefs they hold.
Yes, religion does not give one a choice between being good and bad. Religion declares that being bad is bad and will become painful in future. But even atheism does not give one a choice, if one were to analyse logically. Atheism says that being good has no meaning. I mean why should someone not take bribe and amass wealth, when one knows that others who are doing it are prospering? If you dont take bribe, you are good, but you are foolish as well. But if you were a believer, then not taking the bribe has a meaning.Like I said, why not trying to be good for the sake of being good rather than having someone or something control your entire life. Religion does not give you a choice and history already proves it.
Being good for the sake of good, sounds good but is illogical. Why should someone be good at all? What is good? Each person may have his own understanding of good and bad. What definition must be accepted? And what does one gain by being good? If one gains nothing, then are we not being foolish by doing something that does not fetch any gains and may infact need us to endure pain. From atheist perspective, all this does not make sense. There is no absolute from atheist POV, everything is arbitrary. For a believer, there is a divine law which is laid down.
See there are wrongdoers in every profession. Its natural. There are doctors who have committed grave wrongs. There are soldiers who have done extremely brutal things. That does not make their profession wrong. Should people stop keeping their faith in a doctor or soldier? Similarly, why should people stop keeping faith in godmen because of few rotten apples.But it still chains us to the ground. Blessing or not, it is because of this belief that people like this exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Nithyananda
Then, sure Nityananda did what he did. But may be he saved several people directly or indirectly. His 'blessing' may have inspired many people to overcome their difficulties. Thus, he indirectly served the purpose.
Religion controls, state controls, society controls, family controls, boss controls...etc. And what is wrong with it? Why is getting controlled such a big deal? It is this very control that leads to stability which gives oppurtunity for enlightment and empowerment.Religion has only helped CONTROL the lives of ordinary people rather than Empower and Enlighten and therein lies the difference. What you believe is a blessing is actually a controlling mechanism that people willingly allow to take over their principles for both good as well as bad. Religion has actually caused more harm than good since the list of Bad is much larger than the Good.
As for empower and enlighten, from atheist perspective, there is no meaning to it. I mean, if I am just a body, I dont care for anymore enlightment, all I need is fun and pleasure. I will empower myself in any which way I can. I dont care for anything else. If I dont agree with your view, I will kill you, just to satisfy my ego. And there is nothing wrong with it, as I just killed a body that will die anyway.
Thus, the only empowerment that atheist people must be interested in is that which gives them pleasure. And there is enlightenment. All knowledge is meaningless because we are bodies, we die, some other body lives. In this manner, an atheist cannot believe in enlightenment and empowerment would mean only grabbing power by hook or crook.
Religion has not caused more harm than good. As I am pointing out, in a scenario devoid of religion/god, there is only mayhem. Hence, the very existence of a belief in god has been a great boon. Of course, individuals following the religion or individual religion itself may have some deficiencies. But it is nothing compared to absolute insanity that atheism can give rise to.