Where is India in the encounter of civilizations ?

[panduranghari]

Fair one.



I'm unsure about that to be honest. I can't see America standing idly by. However, I think they can't wait to pull out of Afghanistan and deal with the problems in their (failed drug state?) southern neighbour.

If a war between India and Pakistan occurred again (number four?) it would depend a lot on what the stated aims of the defender and aggressor were. Europe would have lots of meetings and 'shuttle diplomacy' but never reach a consensus on what to do. UN the same. Toothless tiger.

There would probably be a lot of news reports about atrocities etc etc and whether either side could actually defeat each other militarily.......... Once a stalemate occurred, UN Peacekeepers.

We would be dealing with problems between the Indian and Pakistani communities in any case, so we'd just be looking to an end to the conflict.

If it went nuclear, all bets are off as your northern neighbours wouldn't be too happy imo.

Just my tuppence worth

Scalie,

Read this essay.

Where is India in the encounter of civilization? - Hegde lecture

Its long but its good.

 

[Scalieback]

Re: Right wing extremism.

Scalie,

Read this essay.

Where is India in the encounter of civilization? - Hegde lecture

Its long but its good.

You're not wrong about it being long Interesting though. Which do you subscribe to? A, B or C?

Thread thoroughly derailed btw

 

[LurkerBaba]

Re: Right wing extremism.

Scalie,

Read this essay.

Where is India in the encounter of civilization? - Hegde lecture

Its long but its good.

I'm forking this to a new thread

 

[LurkerBaba]

From that article

The second option is you become a Gladiator and fight him. You would beat him. But you are no longer a Yogi because now you become the Gladiator. You turn into a Gladiator and fight the Gladiator. So you are no longer the Yogi. So the dilemma is either way you are not a Yogi. So what do you do?

Yogi turning into Gladiator = RSS. (not being judgmental)

 

[Dovah]

Afro-Dalit Project

Now what caught me started on this course of understanding America's intervention with India's break up was a very interesting meeting I had with a scholar in Princeton University. We were just sitting and having lunch and he has just come back from India and I said "What did you do in India?" And he said "Oh I went there as part of the Afro-Dalit project" So I asked him what is this Afro Dalit project. So he said, "Oh we go to India we do youth empowerment and training programmes" I said "It is very interesting. Can you tell me what it is? Who are the Dalits?" And he said "Well. "¦ They are Africans. They are the blacks of India and the non-Dalits are the whites of India. And this is the black-white history of India which is mirroring the black white history of America. And the Afro-Dalit project is to educate our Dalit brothers." This was amazing to me. And my whole thesis started when I started searching on Afro-Dalit project.

And there is a whole library of what they are up to and who funds them. And they are very much active in Tamil Nadu building up a whole network of youth empowerment and youth training to give them a contrary sense of history that they are historically a kind of oppressed people and non-religious and so on. The Church has a vested interest in it because if you can dislocate their identity from the rest of India then you can re-programme them and give them a new religion and so on. This is called Dalitstan project. So I was invited to this scholar's office. And I saw this map. This is the map of the Dalitstan that was hanging there. On the northern part is Mughalstan which is from Afghanistan, Pakistan and all the way to Bangladesh. This turns out to be what Mullah Omar says when he states that he wants to put the flag of Taliban on the red fort of Delhi and recreate the Mughal Empire. And the southern part of India is Dalitstan and Dravidstan. So these guys are working on it. So I was very much amazed that nobody is talking about it. Nobody seems to have noticed. Yet these guys have an open project. If you just Google Afro-Dalit you will come across a lot of hits and you yourself can see that. Then I started getting deeper into it and found that there is merit in the thesis that says that the local minorities are being appropriated by global nexuses. Afro-Dalit Project is just one example.

Not much info on Google though.

 

[LurkerBaba]

^^

Not much info on Google though.

http://www.oucip.in/Latest-News/32/...gins-African-American-and-Dalit-Writings.html

Osmania University Centre for International Programmes

Osmania University Campus, Hyderabad

International Conference

on

Negotiating Margins: African American & Dalit Writings

17 – 19 December 2012

Call for Papers

 

[Dovah]

^^



http://www.oucip.in/Latest-News/32/...gins-African-American-and-Dalit-Writings.html

Isn't Osmania University the one that was involved in that beef thingy?

 

[LurkerBaba]

Isn't Osmania University the one that was involved in that beef thingy?

Yes. It's quite a reputed Univ btw

 

[panduranghari]

Rajiv is a very good thinker of our times and of that I have no doubt.

With regards to the choices between A or B or C; I would hope for C every time. But I am realistic and I expect it to be A. Everything points towards that.

John Kenneth Galbraith said and I quote,'In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong.'

The economic crisis which will bankrupt the west and also the east will IMHO be the catalyst for the change. The scenario I expect subsequent to the severe economic turmoil will lead to either A or C.

A and C are on the opposite ends to spectrum in terms of what we would expect the future of the Indian sub continent to be.

 

[Scalieback]

Rajiv is a very good thinker of our times and of that I have no doubt.

With regards to the choices between A or B or C; I would hope for C every time. But I am realistic and I expect it to be A. Everything points towards that.

Interesting, India becoming somewhat like the UK and breaking up. Never knew it was so likely.

John Kenneth Galbraith said and I quote,'In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong.'

The economic crisis which will bankrupt the west and also the east will IMHO be the catalyst for the change. The scenario I expect subsequent to the severe economic turmoil will lead to either A or C.

A and C are on the opposite ends to spectrum in terms of what we would expect the future of the Indian sub continent to be.

You believe the economic crisis would be the final straw in independence for various parts of India? Is this a 'north/south' thing?

I would have thought India, China and most of the east would weather this particular storm far better than Europe.

 

[panduranghari]

You believe the economic crisis would be the final straw in independence for various parts of India? Is this a 'north/south' thing?

I would have thought India, China and most of the east would weather this particular storm far better than Europe.

Tell me why should East fair any better? One thing will help and that is the love of gold. Everyone owns it. In the west hardly anyone owns any.

The current system dies and the meritocracy arising out of it will not keep socialist economies afloat. Britain like India is a socialist paradise. We will see a lot more localised growth. The growth based paradigm if global economy is ending.

I showed on another post how India is on the verge of bankruptcy. Alas even the intellectuals on here did not bother questioning it. It shows how ostrich mentality is prevalent. GK Galbraith was so correct when he stated what is quoted above.

 

[Das ka das]

Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

Some views on Indian civilization by the Western academia and Macauleyputras:

--Anti progress: Primitive, frozen, poverty-causing
--"Patient": caste, sati, dowry, feticide, untouchability, incest...
--Unscientific: Indian=mystical, Western=rational
--Everything good about India was Imported:
1. So-called "Aryans" brought Sanskrit
2. Greeks brought philosophy and rational thought
3. Hinduism was a colonial construction
4. Indian culture was started by the Mughals
5. British gave Indians a nation (cricket!)
6. We must now import our human rights from America


End Result:

Doomed to dependence and mimicry: To progress Indians must stop being Indian.

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

Here is an example of a project supported by the West (governments, churches, NGO's, academia), from the video:

The Afro-Dalit Project

Thesis
1. Dalits are the 'blacks of India', non-Dalits are the 'whites of India'.
2. History of American slavery is the framework to understand Dalits' current social problems.

Institutional Support

1. Western Churches
2. "South Asian" Studies
3. Human rights groups

Activities: Build an Indian franchise network to promote this
1. India based seminars and training for Dalit activists
2. Dalitstan Project (following map is from the now defunct website)

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

Hypothetical Scenario for US intervention in India

1. South Asia becomes the epicenter of the US vs pan-Islam
--Taliban takes over nuclearized Pakistan
--US military loses, "Obama's Iraq", desperate to exit
--US exit leaves Taliban empowered in North India

2. USA intervenes in India to safeguard Christians being "persecuted"
--Dossier of the "case" is very large, ready for deployment
--Well organized networks in India provoke, monitor the "persecution", and lobby in Washington
--USA wins by Christianizing "Frontier South India"

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

WSJ: "Evangelicals give US Foreign Policy an Activist Tinge"

1."...evangelicals are embracing international causes with the same moral fervor they have long brought to domestic matters" and "are making a mark on US foreign policy"

2. Senator Brownback was called "a champion of evangelical causes on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee"

3. "The evangelicals' growing involvement in foreign affairs creates a new constituency for intervention abroad"

4. "A Gallup Poll also shows the Evangelicals' growing numbers, placing them at no less than 43% of US population

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

What Indian Civilization can Contribute to the World

Creativity and Mind Sciences
1. Intuitive mind, creativity, abstract free thinking
2. Truth can be fuid, ambiguous; not closed or final
3. Improvisation skills, not rule bondage

Ecological Sustainability
1.Yoga of contentment without obsessive consumerism: alternative to "development model"
2. Four life-stages to modulate consumerism
3. Plurality of valid lifestyles and aesthetics

Self Organized Groups
1. Organic, integral
2. Decentralized like the banyan tree
examples: dignified aging, decentralized social security

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

@Das ka das

USA intervenes in India to safeguard Christians being "persecuted"

USA has not intervened in Egypt to safeguard Coptic Christians.

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

Yogi and Gladiator Archetypes

1. Two defining encounters in world history:
--Emperor Ashoka: Gladiator surrenders to Yoga
--Gladiator appropriates Yoga for imperialism

2. Buddhism's unique history of expansion without conquest or imposition of language, identity, rulers, taxation upon others, etc.

Yogi's Dilemma when facing Gladiator's aggression:

If Yogi does not fight, he will get killed for sure.
If Yogi fights like a Gladiator, he will no longer remain a Yogi.

Indian Civilization must solve this Dilemma!

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?

@Das ka das



USA has not intervened in Egypt to safeguard Coptic Christians.

Sir its a hypothetical scenario. Situation has changed much since the advent of Obama.