What Russians built in Afghanistan until 1989

[The Messiah]

is this tram or this bus runs on electricity / diesel.?

by the way they really did good job . hell what american has done in this case

create militants in the region and fund/arm pakistan. figure out the rest..

 

[JBH22]

create militants in the region and fund/arm pakistan. figure out the rest..

Whine after getting hit by same soldiers of god they created then set the whole world on fire for 3000 dead and the best part is that Uncle Sam has the guts to give other countries lessons on democracy this is hilarious.

 

[Tshering22]

Man... Afghanistan looked so civilized and advancing in the picture. Women were educated, they had a good transport system the ragtag mullas were kicked, the burqas and other oppressive dresses were rejected (the pic in which afghan women are covering their head decently with light fabric looks decent and fashionable as well) and best of all, functioning economy. All that went to dumps with Pakistan's meddling.

They are the reason for all the problems. Just because they could not digest the fact that a Russia-friendly Afghanistan and India on either sides would spell doom for them, they went to USA scurrying off and ruined Afghanistan with their narrow and radical interpretation of organized religion. They destroyed a liberal society, sent thousands to abode of dead, destroyed the country that could have been the mountain tourism hotspot for entire Asia.

 

[amoy]

Other than 'hardware' the spiritual void "Communism" left was filled by an older monster. Fortunately former Soviet states in C.Asia didn't follow suit

 

[KS]

Man... Afghanistan looked so civilized and advancing in the picture. Women were educated, they had a good transport system the ragtag mullas were kicked, the burqas and other oppressive dresses were rejected (the pic in which afghan women are covering their head decently with light fabric looks decent and fashionable as well) and best of all, functioning economy. All that went to dumps with Pakistan's meddling.

They are the reason for all the problems. Just because they could not digest the fact that a Russia-friendly Afghanistan and India on either sides would spell doom for them, they went to USA scurrying off and ruined Afghanistan with their narrow and radical interpretation of organized religion. They destroyed a liberal society, sent thousands to abode of dead, destroyed the country that could have been the mountain tourism hotspot for entire Asia..................

.........................are getting a taste of their own medicine.

 

[prateikf]

its really heart rendering to see what the pakis and the muslim fanatics did to a great, liberal and modern nation like Afghanistan

 

[pmaitra]

I'd like to share with you all two videos that show that the US led forces along with the current Karzai government in Afghanistan are trying to empower women. Although women's empowerment is far from what it used to be during the USSR supported DRA (Democratic Republic of Afghanistan), the signs are encouraging:

 

[bhramos]

The Soviets also modernised the transportation system in Afghanistan. Some glimpses:

Å koda Ostrov Trolleybus in Kabul:

good work dude..........
good collection

 

[Armand2REP]

USSR was the greatest thing that ever happened to Afghanistan and look how they repay them. ISAF tries to help them and look at what they do. They don't deserve a thing. Leave them 15 years with no investment and let them return to 1200AD. It is the way they want it.

 

[A.V.]

Since many of you like that trolley bus here is a picture taken by me in 2010 , these buses still run all over russia and moscow as we speak , a bit slow but a new face of green earth.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2upp8c4.jpg

 

[AOE]

Hmm...

Well it's not surprising here to see a lot of remarks about how the Soviet Union was the greatest thing for Afghanistan. I will agree it contributed quite a number of things to the country, but Soviet influence in the region was no better than US, Pakistani, Arab, or other countries involvements in the region. People forget that the people who lead Afghanistan to the prosperity mentioned was the monarchy established between 1926-1973, followed by the Republic that formed between 1973-1978. Both of these regimes established the middle/upper classes; the elite, educated, etc... that is worth mentioning.

In stark contrast, however, the Soviet Union prevented the Afghanistan government at least during the Republic years from gaining relations and help from the west. I've heard numerous criticisms on this board that the US and others have done the same, well if that's the case then the Soviet Union was no better. The fact Daoud tried to remove Soviet influence from parts of the government and military, as well as gain relations with India, Iran, and Arab countries at the time was the pre-cursor to his government being overthrown by the communists, followed by a Soviet intervention that led to the deaths of 1-2 million people, over 5 million refugees, and a destroyed country side. My view on the subject is that the war between 1979-1988 was a grey area, with no side clearly being in the right. Here are some links for further reading on the subject, including some of the considerable negative aspects the Soviets inflicted not mentioned here in this thread, including the genocide they inflicted:

Genocide in Afghanistan: Part of an overall thesis.
Table on the numbers of people killed there.

Lighter reading on the subject:
BBC
Library of Congress

 

[pmaitra]

Genocide in Afghanistan: Part of an overall thesis.

Here is the Preface of the Thesis:

Preface

In 1989, after I had fled from Kabul in late 1987, the American Center in Peshawar, Pakistan, provided me with a Fulbright grant to write my prison memoirs at the East-West Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. Before doing so, I went through the journal that I kept from 1979 until the Kabul regime arrested me in 1982. By reviving the events of the period in my mind, the journal proved so impressive that I decided to write instead a political history of the period. The result is this work, the first draft of which I composed during the six months of my fellowship with the center.

I acknowledge my special indebtedness to Kent Obee, director ofthe United States Information Service in the American embassy in Islamabad; Richard Hoagland, head of the American Center in Peshawar; and John Dixon, director of Afghan Section at the U.S. Information Agency in Washington, D.C. These three men made the Fulbright grant possible. During my stay in Honolulu, Mr. Dixon also provided me with press clippings on Afghanistan, for which I am also grateful. In the East-West Center, Mr. Robert Hewett (director of the center), Meg White, Mrs. Joy Teraoka, and Joyce Gruhn were very helpful, and I am grateful. I also wish to thank Professor Alden Mosshammer, chair of the History Department of the University of California, San Diego, for giving me access to the main library of the university, which enabled me to broaden my vision of the subject. I also want to thank David Christine, a computer specialist neighbor from New Zealand who helped me learn the computer technique while editing the work. His ready help eased my work very much for which I am grateful. I also want to express my thanks and appreciation to Stanley Barton for going through the manuscript and making useful suggestions regarding its style and editing. First as my student in a course on contemporary Afghan history that I taught at UCSD, and subsequently as my friend, Mr. Barton has been very helpful indeed, for which I am thankful. My gratitude also goes to Dan Gunter for his thorough editing of my work and to the University of California Press for making my work accessible to the readers. Last but not least, I am grateful to Mr. Zamin Mohmand for sending me press clippings on Afghanistan and the region.

Looks like most of the source of this Thesis is American or NATO propaganda. I also read that genocide part. It clearly and perhaps intentionally ignores the fact that the DRA Army comprised of Afghans and the Soviet Army comprised of people from all over the USSR and these two armies were jointly fighting against Pakistan based Afghan refugees, Pakistanis, CIA agents and Arab volunteers. One good example is Operation Magistral where the joint Soviet and DRA Armies got much success against the insurgents.

Needless to say, there were deaths on both the sides and kidnappings, torture, executions happened on both sides as well. To single out the USSR and to accuse it of genocide is clearly a piece of propaganda (I wanted to say piece of something else).

Legend:
DRA - Democratic Republic of Afghanistan

 

[AOE]

lol. Yet again you've completely missed what I have said and automatically claimed it to be propaganda. I said and I quote:

'My view on the subject is that the war between 1979-1988 was a grey area' <-- since you love red so much, I thought it might help.

That's not propaganda, dismissing an entire thesis based on two and a half lines is propaganda, in what would appear to be a form of strawman argument, and also ad hominem. If you read the entire paragraph quoted, some of the people thanked include university teachers/staff and historians; or are they all NATO agents too? lol. Speaking of ignoring historical events, you also ignored how upon the communists in Afghanistan came to power in 1978; by overthrowing the previous government. Another point you ignored that I stated just before was that the reason the Soviet Union invaded was largely based on the fact that the Republic of Afghanistan wanted to tilt away from Soviet influence, and Daoud wanted to open up branches of diplomacy with India, Iran, some Arab states, and perhaps even parts of the west. The overthrowing of the government sparked the invasion. Perhaps if it weren't for that, no war would have happened. Interesting point worth noting.

It is healthy to bring these things up because I hear nothing but praise and one-sided views on the Soviet role in Afghanistan, and none of the negative aspects mentioned. That is also propaganda, as it is politically motived and not ground in real history. Stay rational.

 

[pmaitra]

lol. Yet again you've completely missed what I have said and automatically claimed it to be propaganda. I said and I quote:

'My view on the subject is that the war between 1979-1988 was a grey area' <-- since you love red so much, I thought it might help.

That's not propaganda, dismissing an entire thesis based on two and a half lines is propaganda, in what would appear to be a form of strawman argument, and also ad hominem. If you read the entire paragraph quoted, some of the people thanked include university teachers/staff and historians; or are they all NATO agents too? lol. Speaking of ignoring historical events, you also ignored how upon the communists in Afghanistan came to power in 1978; by overthrowing the previous government. Another point you ignored that I stated just before was that the reason the Soviet Union invaded was largely based on the fact that the Republic of Afghanistan wanted to tilt away from Soviet influence, and Daoud wanted to open up branches of diplomacy with India, Iran, some Arab states, and perhaps even parts of the west. The overthrowing of the government sparked the invasion. Perhaps if it weren't for that, no war would have happened. Interesting point worth noting.

It is healthy to bring these things up because I hear nothing but praise and one-sided views on the Soviet role in Afghanistan, and none of the negative aspects mentioned. That is also propaganda, as it is politically motived and not ground in real history. Stay rational.

Ok I see what you are saying. You are entitled to your views and I am to mine. To each his own. If you are saying that your views are a gray area then it is one thing, but if you are squarely blaming USSR for genocide then it is another. You might want to consider that many people were killed by Khad even after the Soviet withdrawal when Afghanistan was still under Najibullah government. Many people were also killed by the Mujahideen and the Jihadis.

In a war, abuses and murder is committed by all sides. There are always victims, intended or collateral. Sympathise with all the victims if you must, just don't sympathise with victims on one side. If you do, you are biased.

Yeah, I like red, so does Times of India and the British Broadcasting Corporation. Your point is?

 

[AOE]

Ok I see what you are saying.

HOORAY!

You are entitled to your views and I am to mine. To each his own.

I agree.

If you are saying that your views are a gray area then it is one thing, but if you are squarely blaming USSR for genocide then it is another. You might want to consider that many people were killed by Khad even after the Soviet withdrawal when Afghanistan was still under Najibullah government. Many people were also killed by the Mujahideen and the Jihadis.

Saying the USSR committed genocide is not propaganda, it is a fact. Yes the Taliban rule during the 90s was far worse than the Soviet invasion, as not only did they kill hundreds of thousands of people; they also contributed to the destruction of the countryside, and kept Afghanistan in the dark ages. Same goes for the mujahideen and the Pakistanis. They deserve to all be arrested, put in straight jackets and put into cells where the walls are covered with Danish Mohammad cartoons for the remainder of their lives. I could not think of a punishment more befitting scumbags of such calibre.

In a war, abuses and murder is committed by all sides. There are always victims, intended or collateral. Sympathise with all the victims if you must, just don't sympathise with victims on one side. If you do, you are biased.

The saddest part is that is true. The biggest victim of the conflicts in that region for nearly two centuries has been the Afghan people; regardless who has been involved in the past. Right now the biggest continued threat in that region is the mujahideen, and if the US can help to heal some of that past damage in the present conflict, then that's a plus. If they can make a stable democracy in the coming decades, even better. With time, I hope the Indian people can better manage that part of the world than others have; especially since this is historically Indian/Iranian land.

Yeah, I like red, so does Times of India and the British Broadcasting Corporation. Your point is?

That's because both of those organizations are COMMUNIST!

Nah just pulling your leg lol.

 

[JBH22]

Russia kills civilians=genocide
USA and its allies do same=collateral damage

See the double standards

 

[AOE]

Russia kills civilians=genocide
USA and its allies do same=collateral damage

See the double standards

Oh look, hyperbole. I can play that game too.

Communists intentionally killing 1,000,000+ people somehow = Americans killing a few thousand.

Sorry, math is not my best subject.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Oh look, hyperbole. I can play that game too.

Communists intentionally killing 1,000,000+ people somehow = Americans killing a few thousand.

Sorry, math is not my best subject.

AOE lets compare USA and USSR in Afghanistan only. How many USSR killed and how many did America kill and going strong?

 

[AOE]

I already placed the table of Soviet genocide here, which ranged from 1-2 million. The current war in Afghanistan has a grand total (being generous) of around 35,000 deaths, but this is shared between the coalition forces and the mujahideen.

 

[JBH22]

Oh look, hyperbole. I can play that game too.

Communists intentionally killing 1,000,000+ people somehow = Americans killing a few thousand.

Sorry, math is not my best subject.

I already placed the table of Soviet genocide here, which ranged from 1-2 million. The current war in Afghanistan has a grand total (being generous) of around 35,000 deaths, but this is shared between the coalition forces and the mujahideen.

Why its conveniently overlooked that USA did same in Vietnam..now what?