What if the American decline never happens?

Discussion in 'Americas' started by bengalraider, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    In what?

    Maybe it's time to create real peace between India and Pakistan.

    Think about that.

    The problem here that there is no balance in world politics, there is no alternative side for US, PRC is not good in that role because they will not play fair the game rules, Russia is such natural adversary that can bring here a balance, but it is still too weak, unfortunetly.

    If there is a good dictator that will support economic growth I don't see anything wrong in such authoritarian goverment, democracy is not definetly better, mainly due to it's nature and because people will vote mainly not for good politicians but for politicians that will better sold BS to the blind masses.

    For many centuries we had on one side Germany, on the second Russia, and even on the third side Austro-Hungary, all of them hostile to us, so yeah, we comprehend this, and this is why IMHO we should have two political and military blocks, one with US as it's strongest element, and second with Russia as strongest element, both will compete, but still both if needed can also cooperate to preserve world wide peace.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
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  2. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, if only wishes were horses, but unfortunately they aren't, my Polish friend !! Russia has a lot to do to get its own house in order, but forget any superpwer aspirations that they may be harboring. US is bogged down as it is, so don't expect it to continue in that role after 2050 or so.

    What kind of a dim-wit logic is that ?? A multipolar world means that there are different power centers not just one or two sole powers. It is beneficial for the US itself in the first place. The rise of India and China, the US feels that these two countries will take up the challenge of maintaining Asia in order, so that its doesn't have spend its resources, every time a new conflict flares in south and East Asia. This will also strengthen the ASEAN and the SCO.

    Similarly, a powerful South Africa and African Union will be able to shoulder the problems of Africa to some extent. Same goes for Brazil in the case of South America.

    A multipolar world has nothing to with increased killings and conflicts. No developing country wants more wars, they only want to develop. And they will be happy to have a ally of great power status who has risen from amongst them previously to show them the way to achieve growth and development that they so desire. A developing nation will always identify more with a power among the developing world than with the US.

    How was the world pre 1900 ? Was there utter chaos all over ?

    But for that scenario to emerge it will take quite some time, maybe post 2050 or so , since all developing powers are still in a nascent stage, and hence the US will continue its role for quite a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  3. JAYRAM

    JAYRAM 2 STRIKE CORPS Senior Member

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    US has all ingredients for success for next 200 years: Obama

    PTI | May 15, 2012, 09.38AM IST

    WASHINGTON: The US has all the ingredients to be successful for the next 200 years, US President Barack Obama has said, hoping that he would get another chance to get the US back on track.

    "We've still got the finest workers in the world, the best universities in the world, we've the best scientists, the best entrepreneurs, we've got the best market system in the world, so we've got all the ingredients for success for the next 100, next 200 years," Obama, who is seeking his re-election, told the ABC News in an interview.

    "But what's happened is, is that our politics breaks down we've become more obsessed with winning the election than setting things up for the next generation and if we can break through that I could not be more confident or more proud of the this country and the direction we're headed," he said.

    "It will happen. I believe it. It always does," said the US President, exuding confidence.

    Obama said that what he wants is to spend the next five years doing is recreating that America where if you work hard you can make it, regardless of where you come from, what you look like.

    "The one thing, if you don't mind me taking just a little bit of time on this you know sometimes you hear about America's declining or we're weaker or China's on the rise or this, that or the other," he said.

    "Let me tell you, I travel all around the world and everywhere you go, if you ask people where would you want to be, what country you admire, what cards you would like to have in your hand, it's what we've got," Obama said.



    US has all ingredients for success for next 200 years: Obama - The Times of India
     
  4. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    it is true actually.

    a little known fact is that the usa has the 3rd largest population on the planet.

    they will always be a force to be reckoned with, even if their economy declines in the short to medium term.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  5. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    This post belongs in the 2012 Presidential Election thread.

    0bama's party is obsessed with winning the election, you can believe it.

    Another 4 years of 0bama and there will be no USA in 50 years, let alone 200.

    What he actually exudes is unmentionable.
     
  6. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Maybe an Obama bashing thread for like-minded netizens wouldn't be such a bad idea. Who knows I might get convinced to cross-over... :laugh:
     
  7. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    A chat with Daniel Gross, author of Better, Stronger, Faster: The Myth of American Decline and the Rise of a New Economy.

    ====

    .......

    TIME: While it is true that the global economy isn’t a zero sum game,the gains made in recent generations by workers abroad have, to some extent, come at the expense of American workers. Are you as optimistic about the fate of the average American worker as you are about the American economy as a whole?

    I see tough times ahead for American workers, but the notion that things were great and now we’re doomed is wrong. Unemployment used to be 5%, but it was at 5% because we had this insane housing bubble where 45% of the jobs created in the private sector from 2001 to 2005 were related to real estate or finance. Those were not jobs; those were borrowed bubble jobs. Things have actually been difficult for workers for the past thirty years. If there’s this war between management and labor, management has been kicking the crap out of labor going on a few decades now. And that has to do with globalization, it has to do with the decline of unions, it has to do with policy from both parties, but in particular Republicans. That’s not something that is easily reversed with four quarters of three percent growth. But if our economy grows 3% for several years, the slack in the labor market will get taken up, and then people will be in a better position to bargain for better benefits and wages.

    It also has to do with social norms and what is expected and what is acceptable from companies. Corporations have had a near-death experience, and they came back. They’re really very lean and they’re kicking a lot of butt, but for the recovery to really get going they’ve got to give it up. They’ve got to start paying dividends if we want the stock market to continue to do well – we’re not going to get 15% earnings growth for the next couple years, but many of these companies have the capacity to increase their dividends. They’re going to have to give it up on paying taxes. And they’re going to have to start giving it up on wages. This notion that it’s okay to pay people 8 bucks an hour, 9 bucks an hour while your CEOs and top managers get paid a ton, that should not be okay. Unfortunately, our system has been sending the signal to them that it is okay, and they’ve internalized that. It has to do with policy and norms. It goes back to the famous example of Henry Ford saying, “I want to pay my workers enough so that they can afford to buy the products I make.” Imagine if more people said that.

    TIME: What finally gets companies to flip that switch?

    First of all, sustained growth and less slack in our labor market. Secondly, as the rest of the world gets richer, the rest of the world will become a more expensive place to do business. In manufacturing for instance, labor costs aren’t the only input. There are inventory costs, transport, and security to name a few. So when you figure all those costs in, the differences between the Southern U.S. and the coastal parts of China aren’t so great. The process of forcing workers into competition with ever-cheaper labor is running out of steam a little bit. We’re not going to make t-shirts here again, but at the margins, jobs will start to come back and those types of jobs tend to pay better than service jobs. This isn’t enough in and of itself to solve the employment problem, but it’s an example of how global growth will help America too.

    TIME: Are you concerned about the ability of the environment to sustain the kind of global growth that your book envisions?

    I am concerned about the environment, but what’s the alternative? Are you going to tell the people in Sub-Saharan Africa that they have to live off two dollars a day for the rest of their life and have an infant mortality rate that’s fifty times what it is here and a much lower life expectancy? We have the tools to grow in an environmentally responsible way. In the U.S. emissions actually fell last year. Why? It’s not because our economy shrunk. It grew. It’s not because industrial production declined. It grew. It’s not because we had some very sophisticated carbon-pricing Kyoto accord, we don’t have that. It happened because natural gas is displacing coal to a very large degree in electricity generation and because the typical car sold today is 15% more fuel efficient than the typical car sold 5 years ago, and people have been focusing on efficiency. Our economy grew, we added several hundred billion new dollars in economic activity while emissions declined. And it happened without some major, successful policy. So it’s doable.

    TIME: You seem take the attitude that the Panic of 2008 was actually a wake up call that the American economy needed, and we’re responding well to that call.

    It’s like you smoke two packs a day, and you think that you should stop. One day you have a heart attack and you’re near death and you’re in the emergency room and guess what? You’ve stopped smoking. And by the way, because you’re not spending $1,000 dollars a day on cigarettes, you have cash to spend on keeping current on your debt and you’re more healthy. And I think that’s what 2008 and 2009 was for a lot of people and companies.


    The Myth of American Decline: An Interview with Author Daniel Gross | Business | TIME.com
     
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  8. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Poland lies between Germany and Russia. Historically that brought its own problems.
     
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  9. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    Re: US has all ingredients for success for next 200 years: Obama

    Why is it that Obama says all the right things and does exactly the opposite? I want to know the answer for real. I am really getting pissed off more and more whenever i listen to him saying one thing and doing other. That two tongue bastard!!
     
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  10. devil510

    devil510 Regular Member

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    @aerokan isn't that what all politicians do you seem to be sleeping as for american decline it is on its way happening right now
     
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  11. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    @devil510 : i am perfectly aware of the fact that a good number of politicians behave that way. Saying that all politicans are like that is a gross mis-statement. The American decline is a happening that can't be stopped now. It was confirmed once Romney was elected as the Republican presidential nominee rather than Ron Paul. Once that happened.. the future events are almost fixed. Now it's almost certain Obama would come again and destroy the country further.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  12. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Romans thought there would be no end to the Roman Empire. Today it is history.
    The British thought they would rule the world forever. Today, British Empire exists, in the history books.
    The Soviets thought Communism would conquer the whole world, today USSR is referred to as 'erstwhile USSR'.
    Today, the Americans think that USA will be there forever. It too will be placed in the history books.

    Nothing stays forever. Anything that has a beginning has an end.
     
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  13. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    The Constitution of the United States is what what makes it unique. If we diverge from it, what you predict will happen.
     
  14. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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  15. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Which ever idiot speculates the American decline really must be living under a rock. Decline of a nation really does not lie in economic crisis, they have been basing the decline of USA on economics since before the Regan era where unemployment was over 10%, the prosperity of a nation lies with what it contain which is mainly its people, as long as the people are industrious, patriotic and innovative a nation cant decline. Also the rise of the rest like China and other BRIC nations does not hamper USA stature in anyway.
     
  16. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Well, I know a lot of people of would have their right balls cut just to see America truly decline... If you believe in it so bad then it will come true (at least to you)...
     
  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    America won't decline, others will have to overtake it faster than America can grow. That's about it.
     
  18. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    People, vast and diversified territory, natural resources, society and economy that encourages entrepreneurship, etc., America has all the right ingredients to continue being successful. But it's true that other countries can catch and are catching up with it.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    The US Constitution is one of the best documents ever. It's about time Americans stood up and stopped its abuse, but that isn't going to be an easy task, as long as the media is in the control of the powers that be. I am hopeful though.
     
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  20. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    No doubt about that. In fact, I would go as far as to say that USA has possibly the best Constitution in the world. Your forefathers were intelligent, humble, morally upright and very enterprising men. They knew the difference between right and wrong. They served as inspirations to the whole world.
    Sadly, the American people and their leaders have lost most of the qualities that made them world beaters. Now they 'beat' the world only physically, through show of strength.
    We don't understand why you do, what you are doing now. Does it not depress the American people that their great nation is becoming a mere tool at the hands of so many groups with vested interests? Please give us an American perspective.
     
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