What if the American decline never happens?

[Armand2REP]

No, I'am dead serious, something You never understand.



This is what I'am talking about, a wishfull thinking.



There are only tanks in numbers I provided, Germans sold off allmost everything they got in storage, UK don't have reserve tank fleet in storage, France also don't have nothing more beyond Leclerc tanks in numbers I provided, AMX-30 is a joke not a tank, just like Leopard 1, to fight against them Russians don't even need tanks, BMD-3's, BMD-4's and BMP-3's are more than enough.



T-72B is from base designed to be equipped also with heavy dynamic protection, and only Germans have besides US, ammunition designed to defeat targets protected by dynamic protection.



It only shows that due to distance You not know anything about Russia.



Of course, 200+ T-90, 400+ T-90A, ~300-400 T-80U tanks + several hundreds T-80UE-1 (T-80BW and T-80UD hybrid) + several thousands of T-80BW and several thousands of T-72B are really small numbers, T-90A's and T-80U's numbers alone are same or more than France and Germany have, and these vehicles have enough protection to withstand 90% of european anti tank weapons.



But there is one small problem, the tanks I provided numbers are all upgraded variants, in active service there are no not upgraded tanks.



And this is the typical, european arrogance, ignorance and wishfull thinking, thank god, there is still US military might there, and Americans actually know more than You military about ex Soviet and now Russian and Ukrainian military tech, they are far from such arrogance, ignorance and wishfull thinking.



I think You live in some room without any conncetion to real world, nothing new? You should read more.



Wishfull thinking.



Even the 2nd half is more than enough.

Vladi pretty much laid you out as to why Russian Ground Forces are no match for Euros.

BMD-3 = obsolete, most are BMD-2 even worse
BMD-4 = LRIP production, less than 100
BMP-3 = only 400 still in service and terrible electronics, BMD-3M is ZERO

T-72B without ERA will be holed like Swiss Cheese, like Vladi said they don't have enough kits. It has protection levels comparative to that of the contemporary T-80U, but has a noticeably poorer FCS and vision aids as well as being underpowered. T-80s in Chechnya suffered hundreds of losses to simple RPGs, the T-72B fares no better.

Of course there are not that many T-90As, only 202 and half of them are out of action. The T-80s will break down before they even leave the border, like Lt. General Galkin said after Chechnya to the Def Min, "never again procure tanks with gas-turbine engines."

90% of Russia's armour is not upgraded.

On to the Russian AF... half of their fighters is no match for even the ALA. They don't use R-77 but the pathetic R-27 that proved itself incapable of hitting a target in the Ethiopian wars, 12 launches and ZERO kills against fighters with no ECM. Rafale and EF would mop the floor with them, even Gripens could do the job. And lets not forget the plethora of F-16s and some F-18s... They stopped making the engines for MiG-31s so see how long those fly.

At least Iraq have some goverment, and it is highly unlikely that it collapse or US forces fully withdraw, not to mention that Iraqi Army and security forces are better and better with every month and can handle on their own.

Iraqi Security Forces are a JOKE and to say otherwise only shows your ignorance.

LiveLeak.com - Motivational speech - USMC style-This is freaking awesome!!

What we have in Libya besides chaos and high probability that control over country will be taken by religious fanatics... Bush at least had enough balls to at least try to rebuild Iraq, France will never send troops to Libya in case of fucked up situation, this is certain, because such operation demands not only involvement of light units, but also heavy units and strong logistics, something that only US in the whole NATO is capabale to do.

You have no clue what France does, there are troops in Cote d'Ivoir, Chad, Gabon, Senegal, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Kosovo all rebuilding and peacekeeping if not in active combat ops. Who does more? Like nobody...

We will see, but Your point of view is very naive I must say, but it's your right to belive in what You want to belive.

It isn't about beliefs, it is about FACTS which you are ignorant of.

 

[asianobserve]

For all of Mr. Frenchies chitchat the simple and brutal fact still remains that save for puny African interventions, France could not and will not militarily interven in foreign countries/regions with serious military capability like Balkans and Lybia without uncle SAM's support.

Want to show off your new techs in Lybia? Beg from Uncle Sam to support...

 

[asianobserve]

The US' dominance in not solely centered on economy and defence. The least appreciated dominance of the US, but the most pervasive, that will be very hard to challenge is American pop culture. This secret weapon is more potent than what most people woul like to consider. And the means of dispensing this influence is widely established and embedded in practically all media outfits, American or of other nationalities.

At the heart of this cultural influence is the basic concept of freedom and individualism, concepts that are very hard to refute. The guradians of Islamic societies in the ME are aware of this. This easily explains the length that they are prepared to stifle this influence especially among their youths.

 

[Aruni]

The US' dominance in not solely centered on economy and defence. The least appreciated dominance of the US, but the most pervasive, that will be very hard to challenge is American pop culture. This secret weapon is more potent than what most people woul like to consider. And the means of dispensing this influence is widely established and embedded in practically all media outfits, American or of other nationalities.

At the heart of this cultural influence is the basic concept of freedom and individualism, concepts that are very hard to refute. The guradians of Islamic societies in the ME are aware of this. This easily explains the length that they are prepared to stifle this influence especially among their youths.

Absolutely fantastic post. I wonder how many people on this forum appreciate the point. The guns and missiles are important in cementing American dominance, but the depth of this power is far greater than people appreciate. It is in the number of articles published in journals and magazines by authors in Britain, Europe and America (around 90% of the total), the hegemony of American cultural icons (Hollywood, Levi, Coca Cola, etc.) and the universal ideas first espoused in a rainy overcrowded island in the North Atlantic by geniuses such as Sir Issac Newton, Karl Marx, Charles Darwin, John Stuart Mill, John Locke and their modern counterparts on both sides of the Atlantic such as John Maynard Keynes, Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.

In terms of the power of knowledge, there is no country in the world that even comes close to the dominance that the United States and Britain have over the 6 billion souls of this earth.

In short, the empire endures.

 

[The Messiah]

Absolutely fantastic post. I wonder how many people on this forum appreciate the point. The guns and missiles are important in cementing American dominance, but the depth of this power is far greater than people appreciate. It is in the number of articles published in journals and magazines by authors in Britain, Europe and America (around 90% of the total), the hegemony of American cultural icons (Hollywood, Levi, Coca Cola, etc.) and the universal ideas first espoused in a rainy overcrowded island in the North Atlantic by geniuses such as Sir Issac Newton, Karl Marx, Charles Darwin, John Stuart Mill, John Locke and their modern counterparts on both sides of the Atlantic such as John Maynard Keynes, Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.

In terms of the power of knowledge, there is no country in the world that even comes close to the dominance that the United States and Britain have over the 6 billion souls of this earth.

In short, the empire endures.

oh great...the virtue of have an inferiority complex and learning history of only a few centuries ago

 

[Dovah]

In terms of the power of knowledge, there is no country in the world that even comes close to the dominance that the United States and Britain have over the 6 billion souls of this earth.

In short, the empire endures.

Its true for the US not for Britain.

 

[The Messiah]

Its true for the US not for Britain.

And will not stay the same for usa. Give it time.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

The US' dominance in not solely centered on economy and defence. The least appreciated dominance of the US, but the most pervasive, that will be very hard to challenge is American pop culture. This secret weapon is more potent than what most people woul like to consider. And the means of dispensing this influence is widely established and embedded in practically all media outfits, American or of other nationalities.

At the heart of this cultural influence is the basic concept of freedom and individualism, concepts that are very hard to refute. The guradians of Islamic societies in the ME are aware of this. This easily explains the length that they are prepared to stifle this influence especially among their youths.

Katy Perry must die!

 

[sandeepdg]

Absolutely fantastic post. I wonder how many people on this forum appreciate the point. The guns and missiles are important in cementing American dominance, but the depth of this power is far greater than people appreciate. It is in the number of articles published in journals and magazines by authors in Britain, Europe and America (around 90% of the total), the hegemony of American cultural icons (Hollywood, Levi, Coca Cola, etc.) and the universal ideas first espoused in a rainy overcrowded island in the North Atlantic by geniuses such as Sir Issac Newton, Karl Marx, Charles Darwin, John Stuart Mill, John Locke and their modern counterparts on both sides of the Atlantic such as John Maynard Keynes, Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman.

In terms of the power of knowledge, there is no country in the world that even comes close to the dominance that the United States and Britain have over the 6 billion souls of this earth.

In short, the empire endures.

It seems the inferiority complex of Indians increases exponentially in magnitude the moment they start living abroad !

The days of the British empire are long over. The US is still running, and the Brits are just a lacky for the Americans. But soon the US will find that it is playing the same game alongside many new players or world powers. And that is an absolute eventuality.

A multipolar world is much welcome.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

... soon the US will find that it is playing the same game alongside many new players or world powers. And that is an absolute eventuality.

A multipolar world is much welcome.

Many more countries must provide for their own defense for that multipolar world to emerge.

 

[SPIEZ]

Katy Perry must die!

Good one

 

[Damian]

A multipolar world is much welcome.

Ah, so currently all developing nations wants more wars, more conflicts, more chaos. Yes this is very wise!

At least in the cold war times the enemy on the both sides were known, predictible and the game rules were clear.

Yup, all hail multipolar world of unending assymetric wars, conflicts, chaos terrorism etc. etc. etc.

 

[balai_c]

I believe i would be too much of an exaggeration to believe that USA and England is completely responcible for rise of science or democracy throught the world. If even look at india, we find people like j.c bose-who proved that plants were living organisms,and also created the worlds first radio transmitter, or meghnad sahas theory of thermal ionization , or the first test tube baby by subhash mukherjee, the examples are numerous. And this is India alone. If we add to this japan or korea, the list really is huge.
The very concept of non violent resistance came from india. Grassroot democracy existed in the form of panchayeti raj , something that predates modern western democracy by thousands of years.And all of this happened we were left as a bankrupt destityte nation by the british, with a literacy level of about 6 percent , in 64 years, even inspite of limitless corrupt rulers.
No one is denying the contribution of west, but to express such mindless fascination is not really a very good thing.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I believe i would be too much of an exaggeration to believe that USA and England is completely responcible for rise of science or democracy throught the world. If even look at india, we find people like j.c bose-who proved that plants were living organisms,and also created the worlds first radio transmitter, or meghnad sahas theory of thermal ionization , or the first test tube baby by subhash mukherjee, the examples are numerous. And this is India alone. If we add to this japan or korea, the list really is huge.
The very concept of non violent resistance came from india. Grassroot democracy existed in the form of panchayeti raj , something that predates modern western democracy by thousands of years.And all of this happened we were left as a bankrupt destityte nation by the british, with a literacy level of about 6 percent , in 64 years, even inspite of limitless corrupt rulers.
No one is denying the contribution of west, but to express such mindless fascination is not really a very good thing.

No question about it. But for some reason Obama wants NASA to "reach out" to
Muslims so that they feel good about their science.

 

[civfanatic]

Ah, so currently all developing nations wants more wars, more conflicts, more chaos. Yes this is very wise!

Don't know or care about other developing nations, but a multipolar world is definitely in India's favour.

Though many people will not admit it, is U.S. influence, and not Paki nukes that is the main limiting factor in our diplomatic and military options in regards to Pakistan. Get rid of American influence and India can easily repeat 1971.

 

[Damian]

Don't know or care about other developing nations, but a multipolar world is definitely in India's favour.

Ah, so more killing is in favor, and in the same time the US that tries to handle this brothel in one piece is a bad guy, a terrific logic.

Yup, the old times when two superpowers were holding world in their grasp was much better option, at least their influance permitted more and longer peace.

But yeah, screw peace, world new multipolarity and some "fun"!

Though many people will not admit it, is U.S. influence, and not Paki nukes that is the main limiting factor in our diplomatic and military options in regards to Pakistan. Get rid of American influence and India can easily repeat 1971.

Ahhh, so more wars and killing is something that You desire?

And when US is taking some actions by diplomatic or military means to prevent more mess then it is called a bad guy.

 

[civfanatic]

Ah, so more killing is in favor, and in the same time the US that tries to handle this brothel in one piece is a bad guy, a terrific logic.

In this case the U.S. is the one that supports the brothel (Pakistan) and allows its existence.

I don't use terms like 'good guy' and bad guy', so I'll leave that judgment to other people.

Yup, the old times when two superpowers were holding world in their grasp was much better option, at least their influance permitted more and longer peace.

Yup. Thanks to Soviet diplomatic and military support to India the U.S. was unable to do anything about our liberation of East Pakistan.

The good old days when there was actually balance in the world.

Ahhh, so more wars and killing is something that You desire?

I desire putting an end to the parasitic failed state called Pakistan that has directly and indirectly killed tens of thousands of Indians since the 1980s through state-sponsored terrorism and insurgency, yes.

And when US is taking some actions by diplomatic or military means to prevent more mess then it is called a bad guy.

By supporting a state sponsor of terrorism the U.S. is indirectly supporting terrorists. I guess this is an improvement from the 1980s, when the U.S. offered direct support to Islamic fundamentalists who were fighting the Soviets, but hardly sufficient for any reasonable person to applaud U.S. diplomacy.

 

[Damian]

In this case the U.S. is the one that supports the brothel (Pakistan) and allows its existence.

Maybe because US wants to "repair" Pakistan, yes I know that You probably will be happy when all Pakistanis will be shot in the back of their heads, but maybe give them chance, not all muslism are terrorists, and actually muslism theirselfes suffer because of religious circles influance and terrorists.

Yup. Thanks to Soviet diplomatic and military support to India the U.S. was unable to do anything about our liberation of East Pakistan.

The good old days when there was actually balance in the world.

Exactly this is the point a balance, where there are two strongest guys with their zones of influance, so there are smaller chances of conflicts spreading all over the world because of overambitious politicians in many countries.

I desire putting an end to the parasitic failed state called Pakistan that has directly and indirectly killed tens of thousands of Indians since the 1980s through state-sponsored terrorism and insurgency, yes.

Ah so the best way is war and even more killed people? Where is a logic here? Oh I see, nowhere, only sick desire of vengence and destroying a neighbore.

By supporting a state sponsor of terrorism the U.S. is indirectly supporting terrorists. I guess this is an improvement from the 1980s, when the U.S. offered direct support to Islamic fundamentalists who were fighting the Soviets, but hardly sufficient for any reasonable person to applaud U.S. diplomacy.

US at least try to control this brothel, they at least try to do something without trying to destroy or treathening others with a nuclear saber.

Not all Mujaheedens were islamic fantacis, many of them were fighting against socialism and Soviet Union, but I agree, overall that support should never had place.

 

[gambit]

The good old days when there was actually balance in the world.

A scale is balanced by inert masses. Countries are not inert masses, in fact, nation-states behaves very much like unitary biological organisms do: consume, expend waste, reproduce, expand, get fat, lose weight, and so on...Any balance, therefore, depends on the stability of each weight on either side of this geopolitical scale. But because nation-states are not inert masses, we should expect this scale NEVER to be stable but constantly in flux. It is useless to pine for the good old days and/or to wish for stability, today or even tomorrow. The wise nation-state prepare for the possibility of when there is a loss of its counterweight, or when there is an addition to the other side of the scale that would tip it in the other direction.

By supporting a state sponsor of terrorism the U.S. is indirectly supporting terrorists. I guess this is an improvement from the 1980s, when the U.S. offered direct support to Islamic fundamentalists who were fighting the Soviets, but hardly sufficient for any reasonable person to applaud U.S. diplomacy.

Whooopsss...Hold on a sec. Being a 'fundamentalist' does not automatically make one a 'terrorist'. The Pope is very much a 'fundamentalist'. So is the Vatican city-state.

 

[The Messiah]

Maybe because US wants to "repair" Pakistan, yes I know that You probably will be happy when all Pakistanis will be shot in the back of their heads, but maybe give them chance, not all muslism are terrorists, and actually muslism theirselfes suffer because of religious circles influance and terrorists.



Exactly this is the point a balance, where there are two strongest guys with their zones of influance, so there are smaller chances of conflicts spreading all over the world because of overambitious politicians in many countries.



Ah so the best way is war and even more killed people? Where is a logic here? Oh I see, nowhere, only sick desire of vengence and destroying a neighbore.



US at least try to control this brothel, they at least try to do something without trying to destroy or treathening others with a nuclear saber.

Not all Mujaheedens were islamic fantacis, many of them were fighting against socialism and Soviet Union, but I agree, overall that support should never had place.

First of all you are naive.

Yes you are right that not all muslims are terrorists or are India's enemy but all pakistanis are India's enemy. The yanks aren't short sighted, i'll give them that. There ultimate game plan is to remain the strongest and i wont bash them for it but at the same time i wont make up shite excuses either. It is in there interest that pakistan and India are at each other's throats and hope that china and India also bog themselves down. The west has supported many dictators and overthrown many democratic govt's so dont preach that freedom line.

You polish dont have a neighbor like pak so you can't even comprehend what you'd feel like when another country has been aiding it for half a century.