What if the American decline never happens?

average american

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Watch out you might get what you wish for,,,,,right now the only possible superpower of the horizon is China, India is just too screwed up in too many ways to be a superpower.

There are some reasons to worry about the coming Chinese Century. The country's domestic and international human-rights record is obscene. It's been less than a quarter century since the government opened fire on unarmed citizens in the heart of the nation's capital, and only 50 years since the Communist Party's so-called Great Leap Forward killed tens of millions. Dissidents are still regularly imprisoned or disappear. China has helped block international responses to deal with the thuggish regimes of Syria's Bashar al-Assad and Sudan's Omar al-Bashir while propping up North Korea's famine-ridden kleptocracy.

It's possible that a more appropriate superpower analogy for the China of 2012 is not the U.S. of 1918 but the former Soviet Union after World War II. That country, like China, was ruled by an undemocratic communist regime. It placed huge armies on the borders of key U.S. allies in Europe and helped topple U.S.-friendly regimes from Latin America through Africa and Asia. But in 1950 the USSR had a GDP per capita of $2,840—about a third of current Chinese income. And all of Nikita Khrushchev's fist-banging braggadocio to the contrary, it never became the economic equal of the U.S.

Be careful what you wish for, they are Indias neighbor, not the USAs.
 

hello_10

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It is entertaining to watch a group of fanboys bitching about USA, without deeper understanding of historical processes.

I will laugh when USA alone as a superpower will be eplaced by for example United States of Americas, not America. And such scenario is possible and also very benefiting for countries placed on both American continents.
we are hoping for a total break down of US, in many parts as per the news as below. we are hoping for a break down of EU too as no would accept full sharing of debt :wave:

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Merkel said Tuesday that full debt sharing would not occur "as long as I live."

On the eve of a European summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel touts tighter budgetary controls and says debt sharing will not occur 'as long as I live.'

BERLIN — As European leaders gather in Brussels on Thursday for a two-day summit aimed at resolving the Eurozone's debt crisis, German Chancellor Angela Merkel's response to the most aggressive proposal pushed by her neighbors is, in essence: Over my dead body.

With borrowing costs for Spain and Italy approaching unsustainable levels, European Union leaders have stepped up their pressure on Germany to accept solutions it has long resisted. But Merkel, whose country has Europe's largest economy and probably will foot the highest share of the bill for rescuing its struggling neighbors, has dug in her heels.

In response to the widespread call for euro bonds, which would allow European countries to issue debt jointly and could ease the cost of borrowing for highly indebted southern European countries, Merkel said Tuesday that full debt sharing would not occur "as long as I live."

Germany leader opposes full debt sharing in Eurozone crisis - Los Angeles Times
 

Bhadra

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It is entertaining to watch a group of fanboys bitching about USA, without deeper understanding of historical processes.

I will laugh when USA alone as a superpower will be eplaced by for example United States of Americas, not America. And such scenario is possible and also very benefiting for countries placed on both American continents.
Ha Ha Ha ...

Will poland be part of that United states ?

If no, do not be so elated.
 

W.G.Ewald

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My reaction would be that Russian professor is deep in his cups. By the way, will Russia buy Alaska back from US, or just think they can take it?

By the way, another Russian professor said that the meteor over the Urals was an American weapon.:)
 

Damian

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Ha Ha Ha ...

Will poland be part of that United states ?

If no, do not be so elated.
And my country is in North or South America? No.

However there is even possible wider union of countries currently being part of NATO and UE.

Besides this, United States might not be perfect, but this is only superpower known in history of mankind that didn't commited any awfull attrocities, contrary to scums that created Soviet Union, socialist China or Nationalist Socialist 3rd German Reich and such different strange countries.

So above all, I preffer USA with all their mistakes and bad ideas, over all these countries that were created by people with all these brilliant ideas to change humanity and forge a new human, or were based on ideology that treated human as a piece of shit like internationalist socialism and nationalist socialism (Nazis).


As for these silly Russian proffessors, it is widely know in scientific community for a very long time, that many of these old fools are more and more delirious.
 
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asianobserve

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Economists See No Crisis With U.S. Debt as Economy Gains
By David J. Lynch - Mar 22, 2013
Bloomberg




Representative Paul Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, declared this month that the U.S. national debt "is hurting our economy today." It's an idea embraced by almost every Republican and even some Democrats.

Economic data -- on jobs, housing and investment -- don't support that claim. And economists across the political spectrum dispute the best-known study of the subject, by Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff, which found that nations with debt loads greater than 90 percent of their economies grow more slowly.

Three years after a government spending surge in response to the recession drove the U.S. past that red line -- the nation's $16.7 trillion total debt is now 106 percent of the $15.8 trillion economy -- key indicators reflect gathering strength. Businesses have increased spending by 27 percent since the end of 2009. The annual rate of new home construction jumped about 60 percent. Employers have created almost 6 million jobs.

And with borrowing costs near record lows, the cost of paying off the debt is lower now than in the year Ronald Reagan left the White House, as a percentage of the economy.

"The argument that heavy debt loads slow economic growth doesn't hold a lot of water," says Guy LeBas, chief fixed- income strategist at Janney Montgomery Scott LLC in Philadelphia who oversees $12 billion. "It suffers from a mix-up of cause and effect: When weak economic conditions arise, it tends to encourage deficit spending, which is what has led to more U.S. debt being issued, and not the other way around."

Tipping Point

Republicans like Ryan of Wisconsin, joined by Democrats such as former Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad of North Dakota, embrace as economic gospel the idea of a tipping point for debt, even as it is hotly debated among economists.

Some studies have found no evidence that high debt inevitably chills growth -- especially for countries like the U.S. that print their own currency. One 2012 paper by two French economists even concluded that growth rates increased as the debt-to-GDP ratio passed 115 percent.

"The Rogoff-Reinhart 90 percent is really quite a fragile number," says Joseph Gagnon, a former economist in the Fed's monetary affairs division. "There is no threshold like that for countries that have control of the currency they borrow in."

Reinhart and Rogoff said in a 2010 paper that once debt rises beyond 90 percent of gross domestic product for advanced economies, median growth rates are 1 percentage point lower. The U.S. passed the 90 percent mark in early 2010, according to the International Monetary Fund.

Lower Growth

"Across both advanced countries and emerging markets, high debt/GDP levels (90 percent and above) are associated with notably lower growth outcomes," Reinhart and Rogoff wrote, drawing on data from 44 countries over a 200-year period.

Rogoff declined to comment for this story, and Reinhart didn't respond to e-mails or telephone requests.

To be sure, the U.S. economy is expanding only slowly. Growth over the past three years has averaged 2.2 percent compared with an average of 2.5 percent between 1989 and 2009. And the recent stirring could fizzle, either because of government spending cuts or what Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke described at a March 20 news conference as the economy's "tendency for a spring slump."

And while there's no way to know whether the economy would be expanding faster if the debt burden were lower, the traditional way that government debt hurts growth is by raising the cost of money as public sector borrowing "crowds out" private borrowers. That isn't happening.

Investors Unbothered

Even as the U.S. continues borrowing to cover this year's projected $845 billion deficit, bond markets remain untroubled. Yesterday's 1.91 percent yield in New York on the 10-year Treasury note was lower than on the day President Barack Obama was sworn in for his first term. It's lower than on Aug. 5, 2011, when Standard & Poor's lowered the U.S. credit rating. And it's well below the 5.3 percent average over the past 25 years.

"Financial markets are begging the government to borrow at negative real interest rates for 10-year maturities," says Gagnon, now at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. "There's no way our debt is slowing us today."

Still, those warning about deficits say debt loads can hinder growth by dimming expectations. The prospect of higher taxes or lower government spending needed to reduce borrowing could cause companies and individuals to retrench.

"That has to be hurting us right now," says economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former director of the Congressional Budget Office and an adviser to 2008 Republican presidential contender John McCain.

Testing Limits

Testing the upper limit of debt sustainability would be foolish, he said. Maintaining today's debt load would leave the U.S. unable to easily respond to a future financial crisis by ramping up spending. Plus, when interest rates rise from current low levels, the government's annual interest burden -- the CBO projects it will be $224 billion this year -- will mushroom.

"Our debt load could be $500 billion overnight," he says. "Think how fast spreads move."

CBO projections don't support that point of view. They predict interest payments will remain below current levels until 2018 when it says economic output will reach $21 trillion. This year, the U.S. will spend 1.4 percent of GDP servicing its debt, less than half the amount in 1989, the year Reagan left office.

Debt hawks take solace from a 2011 paper by the Bank for International Settlements, the Basel, Switzerland-based group that facilitates cooperation among central banks. It said government debt becomes a drag on growth at 85 percent of GDP.

IMF Study

And two IMF economists, Manmohan Kumar and Jaejoon Woo, found "a significant negative effect on growth" above the 90 percent threshold. For every 10 percentage-point increase in an advanced country's overall debt-to-GDP ratio, growth fell by 0.15 percentage points per year, they said.

That suggests the U.S. economy this year is losing 0.6 percentage points from its growth rate, based on the increase in the gross debt ratio since 2007. The U.S. will grow this year between 2.3 percent and 2.8 percent, according to the Fed's latest forecast.

Indicators of future activity, however, have yet to reflect such worries. The index of leading economic indicators reached 94.8 in February, its highest level since before the 2008 financial crisis. Stocks (INDU) are near record highs, and the dollar is up more than 6 percent since Dec. 31, 2009.

Testifying on Feb. 26 before the Senate Finance Committee, Robert Greenstein, director of the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, said: "The notion that we are already in a danger zone because gross debt exceeds 90 percent of GDP and that this is already costing jobs is not one most economists would agree with."

2009 Book

Reinhart and Rogoff rocketed to prominence following the global financial crisis. Their 2009 book "This Time It's Different," which made The New York Times bestseller list and was translated into 20 languages, drew applause from politicians in both parties.

In 2011, the White House cited their finding that recoveries from financial crises are slower and less robust to explain what it called the "disappointing" economy.

"It's not a particularly reliable gauge," economist John Makin of the Republican-leaning American Enterprise Institute, a former consultant to the Treasury Department and Fed, said of the 90 percent threshold. "The evidence is not strong."

Though Reinhart and Rogoff emphasize the number of countries they studied, some economists question whether those examples apply to the world's largest economy and holder of the global reserve currency.

Not Sweden

"Comparing the U.S. to Sweden or to Japan even, it really just doesn't cut it," Drew Matus of UBS Securities LLC told Bloomberg Radio earlier this year.

Thanks to the Federal Reserve, the U.S. is able to borrow more without yields rising. Since the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy in September 2008, the Fed has more than tripled the size of its balance sheet to $3.2 trillion.

The central bank's bond purchases have kept the 10-year yield 80 to 120 basis points, or 0.8 to 1.2 percentage points, lower than it otherwise would have been, thus boosting economic growth, according to Bernanke.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, called the idea of debt limiting growth "very silly," saying the U.S. retains vast assets, including technically recoverable oil and gas reserves estimated by the Institute for Energy Research at $128 trillion.

"If it sold off $5 trillion to lower its debt to GDP ratio by 30 percentage points do we really think we would suddenly grow faster?" Baker wrote in an e-mail.


Economists See No Crisis With U.S. Debt as Economy Gains - Bloomberg
 

ericliang313

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There is much that one might admire about America, but it's foreign policy does need to change, no one should deny that...
 

asianobserve

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US Energy Revolution Gathers Pace
Financial Times
Published: Saturday, 18 May 2013



The growing role of the U.S. in world energy markets was underlined on Friday as the Obama administration approved wider exports of liquefied natural gas and international companies committed billions of dollars for new infrastructure.

The developments were both consequences of the shale revolution in the U.S., in which improvements in the techniques of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," have unlocked new supplies of oil and gas, and raised the prospect that the US will be an increasingly important supplier of energy to the rest of the world.

The Department of Energy on Friday authorized the Freeport LNG project in Texas to export to countries that do not have a trade agreement with the US, including Japan and the members of the EU. It was the first such approval to be granted for two years and only the second ever.

President Barack Obama had been expected to approve worldwide sales from the Freeport project, as the administration sees rising energy exports as providing economic benefits and strengthening the global influence of the U.S.

However, a vocal lobby of companies in industries such as chemicals and steel has urged restrictions on gas exports to ensure U.S. manufacturers continue to derive a competitive advantage from cheap energy.

Freeport has signed deals to sell its gas to Osaka Gas and Chubu Electric of Japan, and BP of the U.K. The export project is owned by a consortium including Osaka Gas and Michael Smith, Freeport's founder and chief executive.

Separately, Japanese and European companies said they would invest billions of dollars in another proposed gas export project, the $10 billion Cameron LNG plant in Louisiana.

Big Stake

Mitsui, Mitsubishi and Nippon Yusen of Japan, and GDF Suez of France, which had already agreed to buy LNG from Cameron, will provide construction financing in return for equity stakes totaling 49.8 percent.

Mark Snell, president of Sempra Energy, the project developer, said the deal "promotes a favorable balance of trade for the national economy, and supports national and international energy security by assuring reliable long-term gas supplies to U.S. allies and trading partners."

He estimated the contribution of the Japanese and French groups at between $6 billion and $7 billion of the facility's $9 billion-$10 billion construction cost.

Shale gas production has soared in the US in recent years, creating a supply glut that has driven prices down to about $4 per million British thermal units from a peak above $13 in 2008.

Cargoes of LNG, super cooled to minus 160 degrees so it can be transported on tankers, are selling in Asia for the equivalent of about $15 per mBTU, creating an attractive opportunity for exports from the U.S.

Twenty-six proposed US LNG plants have applied to the Department of Energy for export permits, but before Friday, only one – Cheniere Energy's Sabine Pass development in Louisiana – had been granted permission to sell to countries that do not have a trade agreement with the U.S.

The U.S. energy department said it would work through the remaining applications in order. The Cameron project is towards the top of the list and analysts believe it is likely to win approval for global exports this year.

However, the department added that at the end of this year it would "assess the impact of any market developments" on future decisions, a concession to fears that the cumulative impact of allowing a series of LNG export developments might push U.S. gas prices higher.

Japanese utilities have been particularly interested in projects such as Sabine Pass because its gas is priced off Henry Hub, the US benchmark, which is much cheaper than the oil-indexed price in many of the world's long-term LNG supply contracts.

Japan is already the world's largest importer of LNG, and the crippling of its nuclear industry by the 2011 meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi atomic power station has only increased its demand. Tokyo Electric Power, owner of the Fukushima plant, signed a deal to buy Cameron gas in February.

Mitsui and Mitsubishi are the largest of Japan's huge trading and investment houses. Mitsui is to take a 16.6 per cent stake in Cameron, while Mitsubishi and Nippon Yusen, a shipping company, will together take 16.6 per cent through a joint venture. GDF Suez, the French utility, will also take 16.6 per cent.

Jun Nishizawa, vice-president of the global gas business department for Mitsubishi, said: "By participating in this LNG export project, we are proud to be able to contribute not only to the development of stable energy trade between the U.S. and countries around the world, including Japan, but also to the growth of the US economy."

Jean-Marie Dauger, head of GDF Suez's global gas and LNG business, said the project would serve to "expand and diversify the group's LNG portfolio and increase its flexibility for supplying existing or future markets in high-growth areas".

GDF Suez is Europe's largest LNG importer and the world's third-largest seller of LNG with a portfolio of 16 million tonnes a year.
 

W.G.Ewald

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America Confounds Declinists"¦Again | Via Meadia

The declinists are fond of saying that the US, with its labyrinthine and inefficient government, its weak economy, struggling education system, and high unemployment, is destined for decline and that China will soon blow by on its way to becoming the world's foremost superpower. But the declinists underestimate China's problems and underestimate Americans' capacity for reinvention and innovation. "No other country produces as many world-changing new companies in such a variety of industries: not just in the new economy of computers and the internet but also in the old economy of shopping, manufacturing and energy," notes the Economist, which itself never seemed to put much stock in the declinist theory. "The pessimists are ignoring a mighty force pushing in the opposite direction: America's extraordinary capacity to reinvent itself."
 

Satanist

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And my country is in North or South America? No.

However there is even possible wider union of countries currently being part of NATO and UE.

Besides this, United States might not be perfect, but this is only superpower known in history of mankind that didn't commited any awfull attrocities, contrary to scums that created Soviet Union, socialist China or Nationalist Socialist 3rd German Reich and such different strange countries.

So above all, I preffer USA with all their mistakes and bad ideas, over all these countries that were created by people with all these brilliant ideas to change humanity and forge a new human, or were based on ideology that treated human as a piece of shit like internationalist socialism and nationalist socialism (Nazis).


As for these silly Russian proffessors, it is widely know in scientific community for a very long time, that many of these old fools are more and more delirious.
So the genocide of the native indian, slavery of blacks, killing of millions of "gooks" in Korea and Vietnam, millions in S. America, etc not awful atrocities. You are seeing the world through western lens which is natural since end of west is getting nearer everyday.
 

Damian

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So the genocide of the native indian, slavery of blacks, killing of millions of "gooks" in Korea and Vietnam, millions in S. America, etc not awful atrocities. You are seeing the world through western lens which is natural since end of west is getting nearer everyday.
No, contrary to you I am not brainwashed socialist prick, and I am "bulletproof" to BS spread by such idiots.

Oh, and I do not consider socialists/communists as worthy my respect, so I do not cry that so many of them were killed in wars, afterall they started these wars (Korea, Vietnam and many more), and if they are dead, then world is much better place.
 

asianobserve

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Yeah America can only survive if it reinvents itself as not as police of world and not sole superpower. Also EVERY thing must come to an end, US Empire included. Its fall will be equally fast as its rise based on genocide and slavery. Good job Americans! :thumb:
And the new Chinese empire will end even before it starts?
 

W.G.Ewald

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Yeah America can only survive if it reinvents itself as not as police of world and not sole superpower. Also EVERY thing must come to an end, US Empire included. Its fall will be equally fast as its rise based on genocide and slavery. Good job Americans! :thumb:
Mao and communism has killed more Chinese than Americans have or ever will. And from here it looks like Chinese are enslaved by their own government.
 

Satanist

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Mao and communism has killed more Chinese than Americans have or ever will. And from here it looks like Chinese are enslaved by their own government.
Does George Bush write your history book? What nonsense. Great Leap Forward was not deliberate murdering but a great mistake which Chinese historians accept.
 

hello_10

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i wonder this topic is still running?????????? its an old thread?

does it look good to laugh on the "declined" country, by discussing, "what if it might not have happened?" :tsk:
 

Damian

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Does George Bush write your history book?
George Bush actually shows greater intelect than you, little communist moron.

But there is hope for humanity, as we sing in my country, eventually all little communists will be hanged on trees.

What nonsense.
If facts are nonsense to you, it is obvious how brainwashed you are.

Great Leap Forward was not deliberate murdering but a great mistake which Chinese historians accept.
All communists are murderers, this is a historical fact. Mistake is that civilized humans actually let you live, parasites should be exterminated.

i wonder this topic is still running?????????? its an old thread?
You can't comprehend what you read?

does it look good to laugh on the "declined" country, by discussing, "what if it might not have happened?"
Well, we can laugh from your beloved Soviet Union, which actually declined, and not only declined, but also does not even exist for last 22 years, which person like you, that is mentally ill moron, does not even know and informs whole world, on this forum, that he lives in a country that does not exist.
 

arpakola

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oh dear oh dear ..

what a president ..

novorosia dot ru/?p=421 (have to use google translate.. sorry)
 

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