What if the American decline never happens?

[hello_10]

in my above post I said that US may hardly earn upto $350billion from oil export, as much as Saudi Arabia, but the news as below tells us a different story. things can't change overnight and even if they are starting new oil production fields, it would take at least 20 years more for US to be able to pump as much oil as it consumes, as below. with a bottom-line fact that 'Net' oil import bill of US is hardly $350billion right now, and oil production itself is a price so US won't be able to have saving of more than half of this $350billion amount of oil import in either way. while its already a net gas exporter with already producing enough coal, minerals etc but still they have to borrow over $1.2trillion every year for the budget commitments....

According to the "World Energy Outlook 2012," report recently released by the International Energy Agency, the U.S. will overtake Saudi Arabia as the largest global oil producer by 2020, and become a net oil exporter by 2030. The report also predicts that by 2015 the U.S. will surpass Russia as the biggest producer of natural gas.

OurEnergyPolicy.org | U.S. to Become Net Energy Exporter

 

[Bhadra]

Is not the thread heading misleading ?

What if the American decline never happens?

All empires and civilisations decline ....

Yunan Roma Mishra sab mit gaye jahan se...

Hoga America ka bhi decline hoga. Par kab kyon aur kahan ??

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Is not the thread heading misleading ?

What if the American decline never happens?

All empires and civilisations decline ....

Some of us American's have an abiding faith in the US Constitution, the like of which has never before appeared.

 

[Bhadra]

Some of us American's have an abiding faith in the US Constitution, the like of which has never before appeared.

That is good. But that is what was the case with The Greek Civilization as also with Romans.

Russians also had great faith in Karl Marx and Lenin and adhered to them..

But all civilizations decline except for Indian civilization which carries on and on...

 

[Damian]

You are making mistake. Ancient Rome might disappeared but it's civilization not, same for ancient Greece. Both civilizations were just connected with Christianity thus evolving in to modern western civilization.

So both didn't declined, this is a typical misconception. Well in fact these cilivizations also splited in to twi different civilizations.

Western Rome and partially Greece civilizations conncected with Catholic Christianity created what we know today as modern western civilization, while Eastern Rome and Greece civilization with orthodox christianity created a, perhaps best simplified term here will be orthodox christian civilization that had most of it's influance over today's Russia.

Islamic civilization also is not completely new, it is just new religion that connected with many older civilization that were existing in that region.

The whole declining idea is just miscionception, civilization can decline only when it is completely destroyed, when there is no civilization at all, while existing civilizations are just further evolutions of what was before.

Same can be applied to Indian civilization, it is not 100% same as before, but it is evolving, same can be observed all around the world, look at Chine, Korea or Japan for example, we can see that their civilization are evolving.

 

[Bhadra]

You are making mistake. Ancient Rome might disappeared but it's civilization not, same for ancient Greece. Both civilizations were just connected with Christianity thus evolving in to modern western civilization.

So both didn't declined, this is a typical misconception. Well in fact these cilivizations also splited in to twi different civilizations.

Western Rome and partially Greece civilizations conncected with Catholic Christianity created what we know today as modern western civilization, while Eastern Rome and Greece civilization with orthodox christianity created a, perhaps best simplified term here will be orthodox christian civilization that had most of it's influance over today's Russia.

Islamic civilization also is not completely new, it is just new religion that connected with many older civilization that were existing in that region.

The whole declining idea is just miscionception, civilization can decline only when it is completely destroyed, when there is no civilization at all, while existing civilizations are just further evolutions of what was before.

Same can be applied to Indian civilization, it is not 100% same as before, but it is evolving, same can be observed all around the world, look at Chine, Korea or Japan for example, we can see that their civilization are evolving.

OK the empires declined ? the states declined and their hold over others declined ... No

what explanations for that now ??

 

[average american]

in my above post I said that US may hardly earn upto $350billion from oil export, as much as Saudi Arabia, but the news as below tells us a different story. things can't change overnight and even if they are starting new oil production fields, it would take at least 20 years more for US to be able to pump as much oil as it consumes, as below. with a bottom-line fact that 'Net' oil import bill of US is hardly $350billion right now, and oil production itself is a price so US won't be able to have saving of more than half of this $350billion amount of oil import in either way. while its already a net gas exporter with already producing enough coal, minerals etc but still they have to borrow over $1.2trillion every year for the budget commitments....

We can allways pay them back with Trillion dollar coins...... The Trillion-Dollar Coin Is Back

Image Search Results for trillion dollar coin

 

[Damian]

Empires, states can decline, and they can also reborn in different form, these is irrelevant untill civilization exist.

For example, Russian Empire declined, transformed in to Soviet Union, Soviet Union declined and transformed in to Russia that is still super power.

USA in it's current form might decline, it does not mean it will cease to exist, it can for example transform from federation in to more unitary state (well USA is a form of very unitary federation with strong central goverment, all federations today looks the same, like Germany or Russia). In future many things might happen, for example USA can join Canada an form a bigger union, both countries are very close to each other, USA have the strongest military, and will have for many decades to come, in Canada's interest might be to be closer and closer to USA due to fact that north pole being known as potential source of natural resources like oil or gas, focus interests of Canada, USA and Russia.

There are other possibilities of North American countries trying to search closer relations with USA, for example Mexico, their goverment is incapable to solve many problem on their own and thus seek help from stronger norther neighbour.

Can such scenario can mean decline of USA that we know today? Yes, does it mean something bad? No, not at all, it can mean bigger population, bigger and stronger economy, more natural resources etc.

The problem is that today people tend to seek in changes more sensatiolism, problems, even disasters, while changes are something natural and not nececary bad for these who change, we should rather seek in changes opportunities.

We can allways pay them back with Trillion dollar coins...... The Trillion-Dollar Coin Is Back

Image Search Results for trillion dollar coin

This is interesting, very unconventional, and many times unconventional ideas were successfull. Well Americans are know from their exceptional ability to find alternative approaches to the problems.

 

[Bhadra]

Is USA a state , an empire or civilization ?
Answer that please..

What was USSR ?

 

[Damian]

USA is a state with status of super power (it is not empire) and is part of Western Civilization/Greek-Roman-Christian Catholic Civilization.

USSR was state also with status of super power (it can be considered as empire due to it's actions in creating a puppet states or even including these states in to it's territory), as direct descendant of Russian Empire it can be considered as part of Christian Orthodox Civilization.

 

[Bhadra]

So USA or USSR are not distinct civilizations per say.
They are powerful states and super powers comparable to Empires.

Empires decline.
USSR had declined and USA will decline in its own time and under own conditions.

So where is the argument ?

And by the way Babylon, Egypt, Mayawian, Roman and Greeks were civilizations besides others which declined. There is nothing special about USSR or USA.

Both will decline as super powers as also as civilizations if you say so.

 

[Damian]

So USA or USSR are not distinct civilizations per say.
They are powerful states and super powers comparable to Empires.

Empires decline.
USSR had declined and USA will decline in its own time and under own conditions.

So where is the argument ?

And by the way Babylon, Egypt, Mayawian, Roman and Greeks were civilizations besides others which declined. There is nothing special about USSR or USA.

Both will decline as super powers as also as civilizations if you say so.

It seems that you do not read what I wrote, read again with understanding, if you still not understand, read it again and again and 1000000000000000000000000000 times more again.

Empires, states can decline, and they can also reborn in different form, these is irrelevant untill civilization exist.

For example, Russian Empire declined, transformed in to Soviet Union, Soviet Union declined and transformed in to Russia that is still super power.

USA in it's current form might decline, it does not mean it will cease to exist, it can for example transform from federation in to more unitary state (well USA is a form of very unitary federation with strong central goverment, all federations today looks the same, like Germany or Russia). In future many things might happen, for example USA can join Canada an form a bigger union, both countries are very close to each other, USA have the strongest military, and will have for many decades to come, in Canada's interest might be to be closer and closer to USA due to fact that north pole being known as potential source of natural resources like oil or gas, focus interests of Canada, USA and Russia.

There are other possibilities of North American countries trying to search closer relations with USA, for example Mexico, their goverment is incapable to solve many problem on their own and thus seek help from stronger norther neighbour.

Can such scenario can mean decline of USA that we know today? Yes, does it mean something bad? No, not at all, it can mean bigger population, bigger and stronger economy, more natural resources etc.

The problem is that today people tend to seek in changes more sensatiolism, problems, even disasters, while changes are something natural and not nececary bad for these who change, we should rather seek in changes opportunities.

As I said, declining argument just shows how stupid are people talking about decline. Decline is not something that exist, transformation is a better term defining the process.

I say more, my country transformed more than once.

First the was just Korona or Crown, we can also call it Kingdom of Poland, later it was Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania also known later as 1st Republic, then for 100 years there was no such state as Poland, we were part of Russian Empire, Prussia and Austro-Hungary Empire, after World War 1st my country rebuilded in to 2nd Republic, after World War II 2n Republic disappeard and was replaced by People Republic of Poland, later Poeple Republic disappeard and now we have 3rd Republic.

Did we disappeard as nation? As a country? No, my country just transformed, same happend with ancient Greece, ancient Rome, Russian Empire, Soviet Union, British Kingdom, British Empire, same will happen with USA, it will not decline, it will transform in to something else, perhaps better and more powerfull.

 

[average american]

Every thing changes, the USSR did not decline it just ceased to exist. Obama::"" The America we know is great not because of our skyscrapers or the size of our GDP," Obama told a DNC gathering on April 21 in San Francisco. "It's because we've been able to keep two ideas together at the same time. The first idea is that we are all individuals endowed with certain inalienable rights and liberties; that we are self-reliant; we are entrepreneurs. We don't expect others to do for us what we can do for ourselves, and we don't really like people telling us what to do. But the second idea, just as important is that we're all in this together; that we look out for one another; that I am my brother's keeper; that I am my sister's keeper."""

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Is USA a state , an empire or civilization ?
Answer that please..

What was USSR ?

USA is a representative Republic.

USSR was a Union of Soviet Republics.

 

[average american]

Is USA a state , an empire or civilization ?
Answer that please..

What was USSR ?

The USA is Representive Republic consisting of 50 states. Rome was a republic.

 

[Bhadra]

Andhe Ki lathi Hawa men

(you are waving sticks in the air like blind man) Neither here nor there !

 

[prestigiousindian]

Watch out US the BRIC is on the way...........

 

[Defenceindia2010]

America will decline that is a fact and other powers will take its place in the future, decline of empires is not a simple topic there are numerous and interconnecting factors,(Military,Scientific, Economic/Industrial,Social,Civil,Workforce etc) that leads nations to rise or decline. Nations rise in the future will depend on these prime factors Military, Scientific, Economic/Industrial, Social, Civil, Workforce any nation which is able to keep a balanced lead in all these fields will to the one on the top, natural resources is also and by any means an important factor for state power and nations who use natural resources as means for global dominance can only be countered by nations who invest in energy innovate.

 

[hello_10]

USA just a shadow of its past. Just like the Soviet Union, it is on the verge of collapse. Only a matter of time before a Gorbachev comes along. Oh wait, one already has.

a developed economy can't grow like a developing country and US can survive only by borrowing more, at least $1.2 trillions every year to bear their Welfare commitments. and how long all these may continue as it is, is the question right now. and in my own language, i have clearly said many times that,
"US is not borrowing debt but 'Time'. they are only borrowing more time to delay their inevitable fall for few more years, with a hope of a miracle which may change their Destiny/ Fate."

supporters of US/UK are talking like Lajja Shankar as below, who are denying inevitable fall of their economy, along with
expected fall of the 'nations' US/UK too. rulers of US/UK would just look in the threatened eyes of Lajja Shankar as below and wait for the inevitable fall of their economy, or may be the whole nation too after that, if we have a look on the increasing number of militias in their countries

 

[Damian]

It is entertaining to watch a group of fanboys bitching about USA, without deeper understanding of historical processes.

I will laugh when USA alone as a superpower will be eplaced by for example United States of Americas, not America. And such scenario is possible and also very benefiting for countries placed on both American continents.