What If Multi-cal Rifle Tender Fails?

[Kunal Biswas]

From recent media reports it is evident that Berrata and SIG and IWI had agents in India and trying to Influence there products in both media and trails >>

New York: The CBI is examining documents that cast a shadow over one of the army's biggest contracts - a deal to replace 64,000 INSAS assault rifles that's worth a billion dollars or Rs. 5.5 crores.

Among the five contenders is US arms manufacturer Sig Sauer, which used to be represented in India by Anca Neacsu, who is in jail along with her husband, controversial arms dealer Abhishek Verma.

The bribe was, according to the CBI, intended to ensure that the "VIP" removed from government records an anonymous complaint about Sig Sauer filed in the context of another contract, which could have led in the company being blacklisted and eliminated from consideration for the billion dollar INSAS assault rifles deal, for which it is now in the running.

The other player in the fray, Bhupinder, 64, is quieter and flies below the radar. Known as 'Tusky' in arms circles for his buck teeth, the nickname is a legacy of his days at Lawrence School Sanawar.A burly 6'3" clean-shaven Sikh, he lives in an opulent bungalow in South Delhi's Vasant Vihar. The son-in-law of a retired Army general, he represents Italian gunmaker Beretta.A keen golfer, he can be seen teeing off at the Delhi Golf Club and Army Golf Club.

Around 2009, Bhupinder took over as Italian weapon-maker Beretta's representative in India. "We have been working with Beretta officially for three years," he told INDIA TODAY. "There can be no hanky-panky when we deal with the home and defence ministries." His son Udai Singh, however, says they have applied for, but are yet to get, rbi permission to set up an office in India.Tusky and Udai Singh were the only arms agents present on all four days of the Border Security Force (BSF)'s weapon trials held between May 17 and 20 at their facility in Bhondsi, Uttar Pradesh. Officials present at the trials remember Bhupinder plying BSF officials with beer and soft drinks during the trials. On February 14, 2011, Delhi's defence circles sat up and took notice of him. Beretta signed the mha contract worth over Rs.200 crore for 34,377 carbines. Tusky was now in the big league of arms dealers such as Suresh Nanda, named by CBI as an agent in the Barak missile deal, and Mohinder Singh Sahni, also named by CBI as the agent in the Krasnopol guided munitions case.

The Army's tender has already been dogged by allegations that it had been fixed to favour Beretta. Two of the world's biggest rifle manufacturers, Belgium's FN Herstal and Germany's Heckler and Koch, did not participate in the contract bid in 2011 because they were not confident of winning.

SIG has dropped Verma and Neacsu from their India business and is competing in the Army contract, for which trials will be held soon. Verma's removal from the scene means the competition for the world's largest gun contract has shrunk to just one important player.

Source : ndian Army at the mercy of shadowy arms dealers, lobbyists : The Big Story - India Today
Source : Multi-crore arms deals: videos of Home Ministry, alleged kickbacks | NDTV.com

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Now If it falls we have 3 options. >>

1. Re-Issue the tender and wait another 5 years.

2. Issue a RFI within Private Sector to make a Multi-cal Rifle, Same as FICV tender.

3. Issue a tender within Private and Gov sector to Upgrade existing INSAS 1B1 as per Army specs.

 

[Payeng]

Option #1.
1. Re-Issue the tender and wait another 5 years.

 

[SajeevJino]

a deal to replace 64,000 INSAS assault rifles that's worth a billion dollars or 5.5 crores.

Only 64,000 ..and Is the deal Include Only the base Rifle or with Multiple Accessories like Red dot sight ,UBGL ,torch

and our forces already have ARX 100 ..how many of them currently operated by IA, BSF and SF

Now If it falls we have 3 options. >>
Re-Issue the tender and wait another 5 years.

Another Five years ...Shit ..No way

Issue a RFI within Private Sector to make a Multi-cal Rifle, Same as FICV tender.

Sir You got my Point

Issue a tender within Private and Gov sector to Upgrade existing INSAS 1B1 as per Army specs.

Nope ..One of my Friend is in BSF says our Enemies can change their mag at every 30 or 20 rounds and Shouting "Changing Mag" but our guys saying after 10 rounds of fire "Repairing my Rifle" ..Really we need a newer Platform can lower weight with highest Reliability and For sure every Rifle should attached with ted dot sight or some sighting devices



Don't forget your weapon supplier is the lowest Bidder to supply their arms

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have selected that options coz i used the Rifle, And i have talked about these issues in very deep details..

Please read this thread:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/43826-insas-rifle-lmg-carbine.html

Nope ..One of my Friend is in BSF says our Enemies can change their mag at every 30 or 20 rounds and Shouting "Changing Mag" but our guys saying after 10 rounds of fire "Repairing my Rifle" ..Really we need a newer Platform can lower weight with highest Reliability and For sure every Rifle should attached with ted dot sight or some sighting devices

Don't forget your weapon supplier is the lowest Bidder to supply their arms

 

[sayareakd]

a deal to replace 64,000 INSAS assault rifles that's worth a billion dollars or 5.5 crores.

Kunal sir something wrong with the figures ?

5,50,00,000 / 64000 would give you interesting figure of 859.3.

 

[JBH22]

So finally it came out the whole thing of arming BSF with this flashy Beretta many on DFI correctly pointed out that this smell fouls.

Bloody hell no sense in acquiring weapons each force is acquiring 1 type of SMG one get Israeli x-95 others get Beretta, when these buggers will rise above thinking their own pockets.

 

[sayareakd]

Kunal sir something wrong with the figures ?

5,50,00,000 / 64000 would give you interesting figure of 859.3.

kunal sir figure would be 1 billion which means 1,000,000,000 USD and in INR it is 55,000,000,000 which is 5500 crores
so cost per unit is 8,59,375

INSAS cost about 25000 INR

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think it would be very good that this tender fall and goes to our Private sector who also may produce / upgrade these rifles..

It would be ok, say if Mahindra participating with berrata or tata with SIG..

 

[sayareakd]

yeah after all this i too want this tender to be re issued with domestic player given right to make at least 60% of the system here in India.

5500 crores for rifle looks like scam in making.

 

[rock127]

As usual we are poor and lethargic in defense..

 

[SajeevJino]

MoD should check this website before buys direct from the Company


M4 Carbine Costs around $2000 maybe 1.25 lakhs per unit


Bushmaster M4 for Sale - Buy Bushmaster M4 Online at GunBroker.com

 

[Mariner HK]

We already discussed about It Kunal. We need to upgrade our Great Insas .
When india can lauch Chandrayan 1 and 2 ,
When India can Launch 11 satlite in one Launch,
When India can Build Nuclear Submarine ,
When India can Launch ICBMs to the target 6000Km away,
When India can produce Stealth Frigat,
When India can design Desi Howitzers ,
When India can Launch Rover to Planet Mars,
When India can Co develop and Mass Produce Mother of all Cruise Missile Bhramos ,
When India Produce Tejas ,
When India can build a Aircraft Carrier ,
When Indians Leads in all design and development of NASA and other defence company,
When India can produce Nuclear Bombs
When India can to much much more
Why cant we develop a freeking Midget Machine Gun ...

I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN PRODUCE A GUNS BETTER THAN ISRALE OR EVEN CHINA? Please Tell me DRDO,ORDINANCE FACTORY,MOD OF INDIA , Sweet Gentle Babus and Netas and Yea especially KUNAL. I voted for INSAS UPGRADE ASAP

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Mariner HK,
I think you know the answer, But more important to think about solutions then problems, that is why this thread here for, If you have better option do put here....

Carry on..

 

[Mariner HK]

@Kunal Biswas

My option is very simple. We need to pump in money atleast few more if not too much for INSAS program. In certain time limit.1 bil $ for 65000 guns will be foolish when u can upgrade and mass produced upgraded Insas . There should be many models Small ,medium Heavy guns.If needed we can joint venture with Russia or Isral either way its win win. They tender u r talking about is a SCAM.I think i posted one thread on these scamed Tender. If DRDO cant produce one Good Insas Project Leader should be screwed and all his credits from Govt of India should be stripped.If he cannot produce Good Rifile for our armed forces and Protect Indian Public He is not fit to be paid with Taxpayers money. PERIOD

 

[pmaitra]

What If Multi-Cal Rifle Tender Falls?

My answer: I'll be glad.

We've had enough of this getting different kinds of arms from different sources. India seriously needs to simplify things, and not complicate it.

How many calibres do we need? We already have 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm (with it's own variations, x39, x51, x54). I really don't see the benefit of introducing yet another calibre.

The INSAS has potential for improvement.

The last time I heard, it had 151 parts, and OFB is working to reduce that.

This is going to be another weird proposition, like the Arun Tank. First they ask for a tank that will perform like western heavy MBTs, and then they complain about the weight. Now, they will get a wide variety of calibres, and then complain about lack of ammunition. I wonder what those people issuing tenders think!

 

[ladder]

Why do we need to wait for tender for multi-caliber rifle to be cancelled to come up with an improved variant of Insas?

Insas also finds service with CAPF and state police force and many units still converting currently.
Few years down the line these will need replacement.
What will we offer them as replacement if upgraded insas is not available then?
DRDO mult-cal will have prohibitive cost for most of these organisation to buy in bulk.

Insas is no more completely dependent on army GSQR alone.
OFB has to think it as a product with service of multiple organisations which needs improvement throughout its life-cycle as any other product.

If we don't upgrade the insas rifle then few years in future we will be seeing tender for import of millions of rifles for CAPF's and state police forces.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

MoD should check this website before buys direct from the Company


M4 Carbine Costs around $2000 maybe 1.25 lakhs per unit


Bushmaster M4 for Sale - Buy Bushmaster M4 Online at GunBroker.com

Very few would be available at that price from that source, I believe.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Option #3: Issue a tender within Private and Gov sector to Upgrade existing INSAS 1B1 as per Army specs. :ranger:

 

[ALBY]

Couple of weeks back there was a military exhibition named Suraksha 2013 held at Cochin.There in one stall of drdo there was a poster of there ongoing research and i was about developing a multi cal rifle named Multi cal weapon system(MCWS).On further inquiry the official told me that the weapon is under development and it is based on the Insas rifle.
If DRDO is developing a multi cal weapon that too based on insas then why is a hurry to import foreign weapons which comes under a heavy price tag?Lets wait another couple of years till the proposed weapon is unveiled.Importing and obtaining TOT for a foreign multical system in such a heavy numbers is only going to put a nail in the coffin of the whole Insas program.

 

[TrueSpirit]

@DRDO: Mate, one of the reason for the tender is:
From IA's point of view, DRDO's credibility is questionable when it comes to timely delivery of weapon-systems, given the DRDO's "not-so-inspiring track record & IA's Arjun experience. In a nutshell, DRDO is better known for "Too-little & too-late".

Going by IA's logic: Soldier's life (dependent on the arms he uses) & nation's security, is paramount. Subscribing to DRDO's commitment is of secondary importance.
Now, who can contest that ?